Originally posted by Nellinator
God said wisdom, but you ignore what God says wisdom is. The Bible is quite clear on the difference between the wisdom of man and the wisdom of God. God does not promote the wisdom of man. The Bible says that the beginning of wisdom is to hate evil. Therefore wisdom involves hating the works of Satan and sin in the world. It has nothing to do with intelligence.
But isn't hate in itself evil ?
Originally posted by FeceMan
The Word...that became flesh. Presumably referring to Christ. The "us" in Genesis is possibly the Trinity or perhaps God and angels alike.
According to the Myth....
Originally posted by FeceMan
I'm not sure what you're asking in the second sentence. I don't know why there are rules.
I am asking this: You said that God is not required to do ne thing. Okay...if that is so, then why are there rules ? If nothing is really required, then why does God make requirements ?
Why is Hell needed ? Is it needed? Or does God simple want it ?
Because God wants something, does that make it required ? It only comes from will, not necessity....so if God requires nothing and if nothing is required of God, then why do requirements exist ?
You don't know why there are rules ? Safety and Control..that is why. Rules are a human construct, rules do not truly exist in Nature. The wild is free reign, it is "ne thing goes". We apply our concept of "rules" to the cycles of nature, but rules do not truly exist outside the human realm.
Originally posted by FeceMan
Is there any particular point you're trying to make here?
You speak as if you speak fact. If you would simply represent your beleifs as they are, beleifs, maybe your arguments would be taken more seriously.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
But isn't hate in itself evil ?
Nature has a definite order in it. In ecosystems with multiple large animals in it you will find social structure amongst the animals, territories, and complex interspecies relationships. The savannah shows the interesting relationship where all animals drink at the water together with no violence between competing species.
Originally posted by Nellinator
Only hating people. We are definitely allowed, even commanded to hate sin.
But seeing as how almost everything is considered a sin, it's hard to imagine you truly love someone when you detest thier lifestyle or actions, especially in the event where their actions do not harm anybody.
Originally posted by Nellinator
Nature has a definite order in it. In ecosystems with multiple large animals in it you will find social structure amongst the animals, territories, and complex interspecies relationships. The savannah shows the interesting relationship where all animals drink at the water together with no violence between competing species.
Oh yes, not until the Crocidile comes and chomps down one of the innocent Gazelles. Or when a pack of Hyenas kill a Zebra. OR when a hungry snake eats a baby leopard.
Would you argue that is WRONG for a carnivore to kill an herbivore? They HAVE to eat, don't they ?
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
But seeing as how almost everything is considered a sin, it's hard to imagine you truly love someone when you detest thier lifestyle or actions, especially in the event where their actions do not harm anybody.Oh yes, not until the Crocidile comes and chomps down one of the innocent Gazelles. Or when a pack of Hyenas kill a Zebra. OR when a hungry snake eats a baby leopard.
Would you argue that is WRONG for a carnivore to kill an herbivore? They HAVE to eat, don't they ?
Don't nitpick please. Nature has definite order, the food chain is a necessity that is not chaotic as it is generally very structured and regular.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I am asking this: You said that God is not required to do ne thing. Okay...if that is so, then why are there rules ? If nothing is really required, then why does God make requirements ?
Why is Hell needed ? Is it needed? Or does God simple want it ?
However, those that do not accept this free gift of salvation are not worthy of being in God's presence and thus are expelled from it.
Because God wants something, does that make it required ? It only comes from will, not necessity....so if God requires nothing and if nothing is required of God, then why do requirements exist ?
God wants us not to sin. However, not sinning is not required of us. We can murder, rape, steal, torture, lie, and do all sorts of junk that we want in our lives. It's not required of us not to do them. However, as they are sinful activities, they produce sin, which is A Bad Thing. In order to be worthy of God's glory, we must refrain from sin, have our sins absolved, or do both.
You don't know why there are rules ? Safety and Control..that is why. Rules are a human construct, rules do not truly exist in Nature. The wild is free reign, it is "ne thing goes". We apply our concept of "rules" to the cycles of nature, but rules do not truly exist outside the human realm.
You speak as if you speak fact. If you would simply represent your beleifs as they are, beleifs, maybe your arguments would be taken more seriously.
In order to reconcile any issues with my posts, perhaps you ought to consider them prefaced with "in my (humble) opinion," "I believe," or "The Bible says (and thus Christianity believes) that..."
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
But seeing as how almost everything is considered a sin
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Urizen's bi?
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Don't get too caught up in "rules". They were created by the men who think they can speake for god. "God" has no need for such banal and meaningless representatives. Yourself or me included.
Some of the rules were made by men. The "rules" put in place by God, however, serve the purpose of teaching men how to be loving. God has no need to represent himself using men, however, being a practical and approachable God, he generally humbles himself before us whilst presenting these teachings.
Originally posted by theendisnear
Some of the rules were made by men. The "rules" put in place by God, however, serve the purpose of teaching men how to be loving. God has no need to represent himself using men, however, being a practical and approachable God, he generally humbles himself before us whilst presenting these teachings.
humbles himself
is this the same god that appears in a flaming bush?
is this the same god that almost destroyed Egypt?
is this the same god that incinerated Soddom and Gromorrah?
Originally posted by FeceMan
I'm not sure why God makes rules. I believe that God has made rules because they reflect His nature (just, merciful, etc.). Technically, God could shirk the rules and do whatever, but that would be against His nature (thus, He will not do so).
If rules reflect his nature, then he needs.....If God needs anything then he is limitted.
Originally posted by FeceMan
Hell is needed because we, as humans, are not worthy of God's glory. To stand in His presence as we are, our sins would crush us (even Isaiah was horrified at being in the presence of God in a vision). As we are not worthy, we must be made worthy. To make us worthy, God sent Christ to die so that our sins would be absolved.
This doesn't actually answer my question though. All I have gotten out of this is that we are unworthy, unclean, disgusting little creatures who aren't worth God's time or presence.....yes, yes....being in Catholic school for 18 years of my life, I've heard this argument many a time before.
I can see how CHRIST is necessary, but not Hell. You still haven't directly answered my question, or maybe you just don't know how to..that's fine. But let me ask one more time:
Why is HELL necessary? You already answered why Jesus and his Sacrafice is necessary, but not why Eternal Torment is necessary...what is the point to Eternal Torment ?
Why not just Oblivion? What about re-birth, or an unconcious status...whatever the case. Why does God need Eternal Torment? Or why do we need Eternal Torment ? Especially as consequence for a temporary action, because ALL we do is temporary in this life.....
Originally posted by FeceMan
However, those that do not accept this free gift of salvation are not worthy of being in God's presence and thus are expelled from it.
Why are we unworthy though ?
I look at myself...sure I may be a bit offensive, I may indulge in sexual activity that I do not truly value sometimes, and I may say things once in a blue moon that may hurt someone's feelings.
But that's pretty much it. And when I know I've truly hurt someone, I am ALWAYS sorry for it, not because I think I'm going to be punished, but because I genuely feel pain when I deliver pain to another person.
I've never killed anyone, I've never raped anyone, I've never put someone through a Hell of any sort, I don't aim to hurt anybody either....
I sincerely do not feel I am worthy of being tortured for all eternity, I do not feel I deserve that, nor does my family, nor does any human being simply because they were born.....that's fkn absurd in my opinion.
You already know my opinion about the concept of Hell......I cannot fathom a Truly Loving God allowing any of his creations to end up in eternal torment for any reason.....especially for the reason of not beleiving...especially when it's not easy to beleive.
Originally posted by FeceMan
What I think you're getting at is the concept of sin and how we are to avoid it. If I'm wrong, just say so.
No, I am not arguing about how to avoid Sin. According to the myth, we are born sinners, etc. We are pretty much BORN unworthy...we never asked to be born....so that's not a valid argument.
So basically, we go to Hell because we exist...yeah okay....nice try.
Originally posted by FeceMan
God wants us not to sin. However, not sinning is not required of us. We can murder, rape, steal, torture, lie, and do all sorts of junk that we want in our lives. It's not required of us not to do them. However, as they are sinful activities, they produce sin, which is A Bad Thing. In order to be worthy of God's glory, we must refrain from sin, have our sins absolved, or do both.
I find it hypocritical that Sin makes us unclean when God himself sins. According to the Bible, God killed the first born sons of Egypt, entire cities Sodom and Gomorrha, and everyone during the Great Flood. God hates hypocrisy, but he is a hypocrite himself.
God kills...but that's okay. We kill...that's not okay 🙄
Originally posted by FeceMan
Nature might be chaos, but God is a lawful, orderly being.
And how do you know that ?
Originally posted by FeceMan
I do believe they're fact. You might even say that I know it. Well, you'd say that I believe I know it, but I know it (a belief that I know that they are fact, you would argue).
This argument would only go in circles. You don't know. You feel you know. You beleive. You have Faith.
Faith is not Knowledge. If you had knowledge, then there would be no need for Faith.
Originally posted by FeceMan
In order to reconcile any issues with my posts, perhaps you ought to consider them prefaced with "in my (humble) opinion," "I believe," or "The Bible says (and thus Christianity believes) that..."
Will Do....
Originally posted by FeceMan
Where have you been?
😆 I think he's new...he has yet to face how annoying I can be droolio
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Don't get too caught up in "rules". They were created by the men who think they can speake for god. "God" has no need for such banal and meaningless representatives. Yourself or me included.
P.S. Why'd theendisnear get banned? Socking?
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
If rules reflect his nature, then he needs.....If God needs anything then he is limitted.
This doesn't actually answer my question though. All I have gotten out of this is that we are unworthy, unclean, disgusting little creatures who aren't worth God's time or presence.....yes, yes....being in Catholic school for 18 years of my life, I've heard this argument many a time before.
I can see how CHRIST is necessary, but not Hell. You still haven't directly answered my question, or maybe you just don't know how to..that's fine. But let me ask one more time:Why is HELL necessary? You already answered why Jesus and his Sacrafice is necessary, but not why Eternal Torment is necessary...what is the point to Eternal Torment ?
Why not just Oblivion? What about re-birth, or an unconcious status...whatever the case. Why does God need Eternal Torment? Or why do we need Eternal Torment ? Especially as consequence for a temporary action, because ALL we do is temporary in this life.....
Why are we unworthy though ?
I look at myself...sure I may be a bit offensive, I may indulge in sexual activity that I do not truly value sometimes, and I may say things once in a blue moon that may hurt someone's feelings.But that's pretty much it. And when I know I've truly hurt someone, I am ALWAYS sorry for it, not because I think I'm going to be punished, but because I genuely feel pain when I deliver pain to another person.
I've never killed anyone, I've never raped anyone, I've never put someone through a Hell of any sort, I don't aim to hurt anybody either....
I sincerely do not feel I am worthy of being tortured for all eternity, I do not feel I deserve that, nor does my family, nor does any human being simply because they were born.....that's fkn absurd in my opinion.
You already know my opinion about the concept of Hell......I cannot fathom a Truly Loving God allowing any of his creations to end up in eternal torment for any reason.....especially for the reason of not beleiving...especially when it's not easy to beleive.
Though you may detest the idea that you are a sinner, you indeed are. Just as I am. And so is everyone else. You may not have done great sins in the opinion of society, but all sins are equal in the eyes of God (that is, they all cause uncleanliness, even the little ones).
No, I am not arguing about how to avoid Sin. According to the myth, we are born sinners, etc. We are pretty much BORN unworthy...we never asked to be born....so that's not a valid argumentSo basically, we go to Hell because we exist...yeah okay....nice try.
I find it hypocritical that Sin makes us unclean when God himself sins. According to the Bible, God killed the first born sons of Egypt, entire cities Sodom and Gomorrha, and everyone during the Great Flood. God hates hypocrisy, but he is a hypocrite himself.God kills...but that's okay. We kill...that's not okay 🙄
And how do you know that ?
This argument would only go in circles. You don't know. You feel you know. You beleive. You have Faith.Faith is not Knowledge. If you had knowledge, then there would be no need for Faith.
Originally posted by FeceMan
The "rules" were written down by man but communicated through angels.
Then those Angels must have been either very violent, sexist, bias, or whatever.....there is no way I beleive in a hypocritical, homicidal, prejudice God.
Originally posted by FeceMan
P.S. Why'd theendisnear get banned? Socking?
✅
Originally posted by FeceMan
I fail to see how rules equate to needs..
Rules only exist because of need...if there is no necessity, there are no rules.....
Originally posted by FeceMan
Sin. We're marred by it.
I can totally buy that we are all born with the tendency to be cruel to one another. That is self evident.
What I cannot buy is that our negativity will over shadow our positivity in the eyes of our creator, if he is truly fair.
I also cannot see how the creator can be SO blind that he will see ALL sin as equal...so If i have sex before marriage, that is just as evil as raping and eating a baby.....
That's irrational. I do not feel I deserve the same punishment as someone who rapes and kills children.
I do not feel I deserve the same punishment as Adolf Hitler...sorry...call me arrogant 🙄
Originally posted by FeceMan
Just as God is generous with His love--remember the example I gave you about the farmer paying?--He is strict with His discipline. All who are unworthy are not allowed to be in His presence and all who have been made worthy are.
Why are we not worthy ?
If my mom told me I wasn't worthy of her presence, I'd fkn leave and find a new mother.....
Originally posted by FeceMan
Though you may detest the idea that you are a sinner, you indeed are. Just as I am. And so is everyone else. You may not have done great sins in the opinion of society, but all sins are equal in the eyes of God (that is, they all cause uncleanliness, even the little ones).
I have done bad things....I have also done good things. I try my best to not hurt another person. That is good enough for me.
I do not detest anything.....why do you think that ?
The term "sinner" means nothing to me.
All sins being equal in the eyes of God shows either laziness or blindness on his behalf. I already explained before why i think that.
Originally posted by FeceMan
You go to Hell because you refuse the gift of free salvation. You might not have asked to have been born, but you were born nonetheless.
The Gift of Salvation huh?
Which entails I change my entire life, my sexuality, my artistry, and conform to a bunch of Evangelical Conservative Ideals....
Umm...no thanks.......
Originally posted by FeceMan
Retribution rather than cold-blooded murder. Evil must be punished. While it is not our duty to deliver this punishment, punishment must be delivered. Through acts of God or the justice system, it must be done.
*****You just SAID it is NOT our DUTY to deliver this punishment, but then you support Death Penalty, etc.
Even though God clearly says "Thou shalt not kill"
If you cannot see your own hypocrisy, then i give up Feceman...I give up already......
Originally posted by FeceMan
Exactly. So there's no point to arguing it.
Arguing about it though can be fun and enlightening.
The difference is I am trying to find out where I might be wrong....and so far, you have not done that.
You have only proven to me that you ignore your own hypocrisy, and support a beleif you cannot truly back up.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
The same stuff as usual.
2) Your views on the ten commandments and 'thou shall not kill' are slightly skewed. It is not a "zero killing, absolutely no violence" context. It is a "don't be a jerk and stab your neighbour for petty reasons" type of thing. You have to understand the context. THe commandments were created for laws amongst each other, not around the entire world. Punishments for breaking the law are outside this commandment because they are commanded by God.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Then those Angels must have been either very violent, sexist, bias, or whatever.....there is no way I beleive in a hypocritical, homicidal, prejudice God.
Rules only exist because of need...if there is no necessity, there are no rules.....
I can totally buy that we are all born with the tendency to be cruel to one another. That is self evident.What I cannot buy is that our negativity will over shadow our positivity in the eyes of our creator, if he is truly fair.
I also cannot see how the creator can be SO blind that he will see ALL sin as equal...so If i have sex before marriage, that is just as evil as raping and eating a baby.....
That's irrational. I do not feel I deserve the same punishment as someone who rapes and kills children.
I do not feel I deserve the same punishment as Adolf Hitler...sorry...call me arrogant 🙄
Like I've said, you know, countless times in the past.
Why are we not worthy ?If my mom told me I wasn't worthy of her presence, I'd fkn leave and find a new mother.....
I have done bad things....I have also done good things. I try my best to not hurt another person. That is good enough for me.I do not detest anything.....why do you think that ?
The term "sinner" means nothing to me.
All sins being equal in the eyes of God shows either laziness or blindness on his behalf. I already explained before why i think that.
The Gift of Salvation huh?Which entails I change my entire life, my sexuality, my artistry, and conform to a bunch of Evangelical Conservative Ideals....
Umm...no thanks.......
*****You just SAID it is NOT our DUTY to deliver this punishment, but then you support Death Penalty, etc.Even though God clearly says "Thou shalt not kill"
If you cannot see your own hypocrisy, then i give up Feceman...I give up already......
Retribution rather than cold-blooded murder. Evil must be punished. While it is not our duty to deliver this punishment, punishment must be delivered. Through acts of God or the justice system, it must be done.
Arguing about it though can be fun and enlightening.The difference is I am trying to find out where I might be wrong....and so far, you have not done that.
You have only proven to me that you ignore your own hypocrisy, and support a beleif you cannot truly back up.
You sin. Therefore, you are a sinner. Because you are a sinner, you are unworthy to stand in the presence of God. In order to be able to stand in the presence of God, you must be made worthy. In the Old Testament, this was done through rituals and practices, including animal sacrifice. However, Christ became the ultimate sacrifice, so anyone who accepts Him as his or her savior is made worthy. Thus, those who have accepted Christ as their savior can stand in the presence of God.
That's pretty easy to follow.
Originally posted by Alliance
When you meet God, then you can talk about what his views are. [/B]
❌
what poor logic...
Apparently someone has never heard of the book referred to as as THE INSPIRED WORD OF GOD
Guess what this book is called?
ANSWER: the BIBLE!!!
And guess what the bible has in it?
[b]GODS VIEWS!!![b]
😆
NEXT!!!