Satan - The Prince of Darkness

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Satan is not necessary to Humanity or its survival/salvation, ofcourse not...he's the opposite of necessary

But to the mythology of Christianity, he is absolutely necessary. Without Satan, there is no "sin", no "Hell", no punishment, no struggle, no need for Christ, and ultamately nothing for God to do....

Originally posted by FeceMan
God does not require something to do. Furthermore, Christ was at creation--in fact, it was Christ who created everything.

Originally posted by debbiejo
It doesn't say it was Christ.

I'm pretty sure that's a teaching of Paulianity, though.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Actually, it does.

I'm pretty sure that's a teaching of Paulianity, though.

I believe it just says the "word" became flesh doesn't it?

My mistake. It's a "Johnianity."

John 1:1-3

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."

Originally posted by FeceMan
My mistake. It's a "Johnianity."

John 1:1-3

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."

Originally posted by debbiejo
And the word automatically means Jesus? You're following a doctrine because the bible never said who or what the word was. The word could of been just that the word. We may never understand exactly was meant by "the word"....Just like it says "Let US make man in OUR image".....we don't know who or how many the US and OUR are. Could of been a whole colony of beings....A bunch of gods even...

The word doesn't become flesh at the start of creation.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The word doesn't become flesh at the start of creation.

Originally posted by FeceMan
The Word was made flesh--that is to say, that Christ, being a spiritual being like YHVH, was born into an earthly body. Therefore--with this belief, which you apparently don't share--Christ is the author of creation.

Originally Posted by Symmetric Chaos

Now lets see.
*digs out a bible*

It says here this jesus fellow dies for our sins.

BUT

the only reason this happens is because he is betrayed by a man possessed by the devil

so it would seem
no satan = no eternal slavation

It also says that god wants us to be good people

But without a standard of evil being good is semanticly impossible. There's also this story where god lets Satan mess with this Job guy to test him.

so
no satan = no ability to test goodness and purity = no goodness or purity

*closes bible*

Alright . . . GO SATAN

LOL.
Yes God indirectly used Satan as a tool to bring about righteousness in this world, sort of something like a judo technique figuratively speaking.

May I illustrate?
King Soul of ancient Israel was an evil king, he did everything that God said not to do, yet despite his attitude God did not kill him instantly when it is obvious with God's power he could just snapped his fingers and Soul is a dead dog, but he didn't.
Why? Beacuse God is a god of order and is a merciful God, if God can be merciful to Soul he is most certainly merciful with the Devil, remember Satan went to heaven before God to make a REQUEST that is to put Job to the test.
It took some 5 years at least for David to assume Israel's throne even though his kingship has already been inagurated he had to flee for his life because Soul wanted him dead.
There was this story although not nescessarilly part of biblical doctrine, but is thought challenging, it says that originally God appointed Lucifer as a Guardian Cherub or Guardian Angel.
But what does he guard? Earth or most likely the entire universe since earth is the representation of the physical universe, a few people believe that Heaven is not inside this reality/universe but elsewhere. It is a fact that no beings in that place have any physical features, remember the bible describes them as Spirits and a spirit is like the wind, Jesus himself says that a spirit has no FLESH or BONES both of physical attributes.
Lucifer was also given 1/3 of the hosts of heaven to assist him(must be a busy guy) until that time he was a good person and then something spooked him(I don't know what) that made him attack heaven and tried to overthrow the ruling government there thus was the first violent revolution. The first war was fought in heaven FYI and so as the story goes he was defeated by Jesus himself(the war in revealations was the second war) before christ came I think he was the one who fought and defeated the Devil and in revealations Arch Angel Micheal had to assume command because Jesus was already incarnated.
God gave him time to change, but he wouldn't so God sent Jesus to replace him as king Christ second comming will usher him as the new king-Jesus is the new king who replaced the old evil king satan.

Originally posted by FeceMan
God does not require something to do.

Then why are there rules ? Why does God do ne thing is it is not required ?

Originally posted by FeceMan
Furthermore, Christ was at creation--in fact, it was Christ who created everything.

According to your Myth....

If there was NO SATAN, then the church would be out of business for sure...........All religious beliefs need this counter part! That is what makes the system work. Do away with SATAN and then the church is done for. And with a litle study .... you'll see that Satan is just a myth just as Hell is............quite simple, yet a very big step to believe it......

Everyones choice btw............truth or fiction?

And God said "Wisdom"

Originally posted by debbiejo
It only says the word. and who are the US?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Then why are there rules ? Why does God do ne thing is it is not required ?

According to your Myth....

Originally posted by debbiejo
If there was NO SATAN, then the church would be out of business for sure...........All religious beliefs need this counter part! That is what makes the system work. Do away with SATAN and then the church is done for. And with a litle study .... you'll see that Satan is just a myth just as Hell is............quite simple, yet a very big step to believe it......

Everyones choice btw............truth or fiction?

And God said "Wisdom"

Originally posted by debbiejo
It doesn't say it was Christ.

***Yes it does...to wit: "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, whom He hath appointed HEIR of ALL thing, BY WHOM also He created the worlds" [Hebrews 1:2]..."But unto the SON He saith, 'Thy throne, O GOD, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of THY KINGDOM'" [Hebrews 1:8]..."And thou Lord, in the BEGINNING hast laid the FOUNDATION of the earth; and the HEAVENS are the WORKS of thine HANDS:" [Hebrews 1:10].

In [John 1:1-3] we are told the following about the WORD: "In the BEGINNING was the WORD, and the WORD was WITH God, and the WORD WAS God. The SAME was in the BEGINNING with God. ALL THINGS were MADE BY HIM; and WITHOUT Him was NOT any thing MADE that was MADE." In [Revelation 19:13] we are given the IDENTITY of the WORD in [John 1:1-3]...to wit: "And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His NAME is called The WORD of God" [Revelation 19:13]. This name, applied to Christ, is found in the writings of John [cf., John 1:1,14;1 John 1:1;5:7].

Marchello

It doesn't say the word was christ in genenis

Probably because the Christ was flesh, Jesus was not in flesh at creation.

Damn you're good.

However when genesis was written I don't think they were talking about jesus.

Perhaps, the 'us' at creation included Jesus? That is my belief that the least. Most other Christians agree.