Originally posted by Fatima
Quran mention the Aqsa mosqe in Jerusalem ,God is one ..
in bible,quran ,torah, but there are people add wrong ideas in bible , i cant understand why god has son 😉
Fatima, there are many things that you do not understand. But you don't have to understand a thing to get the benefit of it. For instance do you know precisely how the mind works? Can you explain it to others in detail? But you can still enjoy and reap the benefits of having a mind even though you don't truly know how it works right? Fatima, I understand how you feel. There are many things that I do not understand either. For example, I can't understand why someone would reject Jesus. I do not understand why a person would strap a bomb to him/herself and detonate it around many innocent men, women, and children, killing himself/herself and others. The suicide bomber believes that killing other people and committing suicide is the will of Allah or that this somehow brings glory to Allah. No Christian martyr (i.e. a person who has been put to death for his/her faith in Jesus Christ for salvation from sin) ever killed anyone else while dying for what he/she believed. Peter, Paul, James, and many other disciples in Jesus' day as well as certain followers of Jesus in our time have died for their faith. But here is the distinction: none of Jesus' followers murdered other people in the process. No Christian (i.e. no true Christian or sane person) ever took the life of another person for Jesus and then took their life. But yet we see it all the time with the followers of Allah. That ought to tell you right there that the God of the Bible and Allah are not the same God. The God of the Bible (YHWH, the Father God, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God) have never instructed us Christians to kill other people and then take our lives in process. Our God (i.e. the God of the Bible) is Love (Personified). There is not one example of a Christian committing suicide and killing others in the process. It is not in the Bible. Here is what is in the Bible:
Luke 9:56
For the Son of Man [Jesus Christ] did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.†And they went to another village.
I don't care how many times quiero mota ignorantly states that Allah means god in Arabic, I have shown that they are not the same deity. I have already challenged quiero mota to substantiate his claims but he has failed to do so in the past and recently. So, I do understand how you feel Fatima, but just like you, there are many things that I do not understand either, but that does not mean that those things are not true. 🙂
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[COLOR=darkblue]Fatima, there are many things that you do not understand. But you don't have to understand a thing to get the benefit of it.Hmmm-hmmm. Still not dealing with the questions I asked earlier?
For instance do you know precisely how the mind works? Can you explain it to others in detail? But you can still enjoy and reap the benefits of having a mind even though you don't truly know how it works right?
Uh huh.... not sure how any of that is relevant to what she said.
[quote]For example, I can't understand why someone would reject Jesus.
Why is it so personal? Am I doing something unconscionable if I don't follow a particular football team or political party? Am I rejecting them? No, simply not following them, most likely because I have no reason to, or I feel it is better spent supporting someone else. I can easily understand why people don't follow Jesus. I believe you will find it easier to connect with people if you try and see non-Christians have a point in not believing.
I do not understand why a person would strap a bomb to him/herself and detonate it around many innocent men, women, and children, killing himself/herself and others. The suicide bomber believes that killing other people and committing suicide is the will of Allah or that this somehow brings glory to Allah. No Christian martyr (i.e. a person who has been put to death for his/her faith in Jesus Christ for salvation from sin) ever killed anyone else while dying for what he/she believed.
But we have lots of Christians throughout history who have believed they are justified in killings others. And it wasn't limited to Catholic initiatives. Christians kill, Muslims kill.
Peter, Paul, James, and many other disciples in Jesus' day as well as certain followers of Jesus in our time have died for their faith. But here is the distinction: none of Jesus' followers murdered other people in the process. No Christian (i.e. no true Christian or sane person) ever took the life of another person for Jesus and then took their life.
Well, way to look at it. Christians are somehow better because when they have fought and killed for Christianity they haven't killed themselves at the same time. Amazing! Way to show the confused the way JIA.... the key is pointing out that there are Muslims who kill themselves and others at the same time! When Christians do it it is one or the other - they kill others, or they get killed! Not both at the same time!
What about Christian soldiers throughout history who killed, and were prepared to die while fighting if that was necessary?
But yet we see it all the time with the followers of Allah. That ought to tell you right there that the God of the Bible and Allah are not the same God.
Well, you fail to support your theory on the moon-god claim, so you go right of track and claim it is the fact some Muslims kill that makes the Muslim God not the Christian God.
Doctrine. Simple and pure. The Islamic deity is descended from the same source as the Christian and Jewish God. It doesn't matter what the followers do - that is doctrine. The fact is all three religions have a relation in the past that qualifies all three as Abraham deities.
The God of the Bible (YHWH, the Father God, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God) have never instructed Christians to kill other people and then take our life in process.
It just makes me laugh defining it like that. Christians have killed before. Christians have been killed before. Christians have killed themselves before. But the fact they don't do it all at once proves the Christian God is the real God and the Islamic one isn't. Oh and the Bible forms this basis.
There is not one example of this in the Bible. I don't care how many times quiero mota ignorantly states that Allah means god in Arabic, I have shown that they are not the same deity. I have already challenged quiero mota to substantiate his claims but he has failed to do so in the past and recently. So, I do understand how you feel Fatima, but just like you, there are many things that I do not understand either, but that does not mean that those things are not true. 🙂
Ummm... how much more proof to you want? Allah is what it is and means what the word means. Allah is God in Arabic. Christians and Jews from that region in the past use the word Allah in place of the English God, just as Christians in Germany or South America have a word for God.
And the fact remains that Allah has an ancestral link to Abraham, just like Christianity. They aren't the same religion, they all believe about God differently, but that doesn't remove the ancestry.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Fatima, there are many things that you do not understand. But you don't have to understand a thing to get the benefit of it. For instance do you know precisely how the mind works? Can you explain it to others in detail? But you can still enjoy and reap the benefits of having a mind even though you don't truly know how it works right? Fatima, I understand how you feel. There are many things that I do not understand either. For example, I can't understand why someone would reject Jesus. I do not understand why a person would strap a bomb to him/herself and detonate it around many innocent men, women, and children, killing himself/herself and others. The suicide bomber believes that killing other people and committing suicide is the will of Allah or that this somehow brings glory to Allah. No Christian martyr (i.e. a person who has been put to death for his/her faith in Jesus Christ for salvation from sin) ever killed anyone else while dying for what he/she believed. Peter, Paul, James, and many other disciples in Jesus' day as well as certain followers of Jesus in our time have died for their faith. But here is the distinction: none of Jesus' followers murdered other people in the process. No Christian (i.e. no true Christian or sane person) ever took the life of another person for Jesus and then took their life. But yet we see it all the time with the followers of Allah. That ought to tell you right there that the God of the Bible and Allah are not the same God. The God of the Bible (YHWH, the Father God, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God) have never instructed us Christians to kill other people and then take our lives in the process. Our God (i.e. the God of the Bible) is Love (Personified). There is not one example of a Christian committing suicide and killing others in the process. It is not in the Bible. Here is what is in the Bible:Luke 9:56
For the Son of Man [Jesus Christ] did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them. And they went to another village.I don't care how many times quiero mota ignorantly states that Allah means god in Arabic, I have shown that they are not the same deity. I have already challenged quiero mota to substantiate his claims but he has failed to do so in the past and recently. So, I do understand how you feel Fatima, but just like you, there are many things that I do not understand either, but that does not mean that those things are not true. 🙂
Anyhow, here is an example of a Christian named Paul. Paul was an apostle of Jesus Christ. The apostle Paul wrote two-thirds of the New Testament under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Paul and his fellow Christian brother Silas had been put into the inner prison, and their feet had been fastened in stocks.
Acts 16:25-34
25 But at midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were listening to them. 26 Suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken; and immediately all the doors were opened and everyone’s chains were loosed. 27 And the keeper of the prison, awaking from sleep and seeing the prison doors open, supposing the prisoners had fled, drew his sword and was about to kill himself. 28 But Paul called with a loud voice, saying, “Do yourself no harm, for we are all here.”
29 Then he called for a light, ran in, and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized. 34 Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.
The keeper of the prison thought that all of the prisoners had escaped. In that day and time a mistake of that magnitude would cost a person his life. That is why the keeper drew his sword and was about to kill himself. But the apostle Paul called with a loud voice and told the keeper of the prison to do himself no harm. Did you notice how quickly the apostle Paul called out to the keeper of the prison? Paul did not want that man to commit suicide for if he had he would have died and gone straight to Hell. But thank God (the God of the Bible) that the man did not kill himself. Paul the apostle spoke the word of the Lord (i.e. he preached the gospel, which means good news, to the man and to all who were in his house. The man and those of his household believed in God. Paul the apostle preached the gospel to them and by faith the people repented from their sins and accepted and believed the message of salvation from sin that is possible only through faith in Jesus Christ. As a result, they were saved and now on their way to Heaven.
However, Allah commands that his followers including children be willing to kill themselves and other innocent people for their faith in him. I submit to you Fatima that the God of the Bible (YHWH) and the god of the Qu'ran (Allah) are not the same deity.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Fatima, there are many things that you do not understand. But you don't have to understand a thing to get the benefit of it. For instance do you know precisely how the mind works? Can you explain it to others in detail? But you can still enjoy and reap the benefits of having a mind even though you don't truly know how it works right? Fatima, I understand how you feel. There are many things that I do not understand either. For example, I can't understand why someone would reject Jesus. I do not understand why a person would strap a bomb to him/herself and detonate it around many innocent men, women, and children, killing himself/herself and others. The suicide bomber believes that killing other people and committing suicide is the will of Allah or that this somehow brings glory to Allah. No Christian martyr (i.e. a person who has been put to death for his/her faith in Jesus Christ for salvation from sin) ever killed anyone else while dying for what he/she believed. Peter, Paul, James, and many other disciples in Jesus' day as well as certain followers of Jesus in our time have died for their faith. But here is the distinction: none of Jesus' followers murdered other people in the process. No Christian (i.e. no true Christian or sane person) ever took the life of another person for Jesus and then took their life. But yet we see it all the time with the followers of Allah. That ought to tell you right there that the God of the Bible and Allah are not the same God. The God of the Bible (YHWH, the Father God, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God) have never instructed us Christians to kill other people and then take our lives in process. Our God (i.e. the God of the Bible) is Love (Personified). There is not one example of a Christian committing suicide and killing others in the process. It is not in the Bible. Here is what is in the Bible:[b]Luke 9:56
For the Son of Man [Jesus Christ] did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.†And they went to another village.I don't care how many times quiero mota ignorantly states that Allah means god in Arabic, I have shown that they are not the same deity. I have already challenged quiero mota to substantiate his claims but he has failed to do so in the past and recently. So, I do understand how you feel Fatima, but just like you, there are many things that I do not understand either, but that does not mean that those things are not true. 🙂 [/B]
JIA , with all respect to you and to your religion , i think you have no idea about Islam . Maybe you watch CNN alot , and see crazy iraqes bomb them self ,for that you say that islam allow to suicid and kill inoocent people .
the evidence
"And slay not the soul which God has forbidden except for the just cause..." (Koran 17:33)
"...If anyone killed a person not in retaliation for murder or to spread mischief in the land, it would be as if he killed the whole of mankind. And if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the whole of mankind" (Surah Al-Maaida 5:32)
"Fight for the sake of Allah those that fight against you, but do not attack them first. Allah does not love the aggressors." (Koran 2:190)
"…when it is said to them; 'Make not mischief on the Earth', they say; 'We are only peace makers'. Indeed they are the ones who make mischief, but they perceive it not" (Surah Al-Baqarah 2:11-12)
The Prophet Mohamad said to his army before going to a fight "Depart in the name of Allah, and by his help. And kill not any old man nor young boy nor child, nor woman, But be good doers for Allah loves those who do good. (Hadeeth)
martyr in islam is the person who defend on his land ,right by any way to remove the enemy . I reaaly support Palestine fighters in all forms of fighting and i dont think that is sin .Also , i dont belive that goerge washington was a terrorist.. 😕
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Fatima, there are many things that you do not understand. But you don't have to understand a thing to get the benefit of it. For instance do you know precisely how the mind works? Can you explain it to others in detail? But you can still enjoy and reap the benefits of having a mind even though you don't truly know how it works right? Fatima, I understand how you feel. There are many things that I do not understand either. For example, I can't understand why someone would reject Jesus. I do not understand why a person would strap a bomb to him/herself and detonate it around many innocent men, women, and children, killing himself/herself and others. The suicide bomber believes that killing other people and committing suicide is the will of Allah or that this somehow brings glory to Allah. No Christian martyr (i.e. a person who has been put to death for his/her faith in Jesus Christ for salvation from sin) ever killed anyone else while dying for what he/she believed. Peter, Paul, James, and many other disciples in Jesus' day as well as certain followers of Jesus in our time have died for their faith. But here is the distinction: none of Jesus' followers murdered other people in the process. No Christian (i.e. no true Christian or sane person) ever took the life of another person for Jesus and then took their life. But yet we see it all the time with the followers of Allah. That ought to tell you right there that the God of the Bible and Allah are not the same God. The God of the Bible (YHWH, the Father God, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God) have never instructed us Christians to kill other people and then take our lives in process. Our God (i.e. the God of the Bible) is Love (Personified). There is not one example of a Christian committing suicide and killing others in the process. It is not in the Bible. Here is what is in the Bible:[b]Luke 9:56
For the Son of Man [Jesus Christ] did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.â€? And they went to another village.I don't care how many times quiero mota ignorantly states that Allah means god in Arabic, I have shown that they are not the same deity. I have already challenged quiero mota to substantiate his claims but he has failed to do so in the past and recently. So, I do understand how you feel Fatima, but just like you, there are many things that I do not understand either, but that does not mean that those things are not true. 🙂 [/B]
No proof that Allah means God... well then how about this...
http://answering-christianity.com/allah_elaw_ilah.htm
or this definition from a DICTIONARY... are you going to argue with a dictionary JIA because at that point I believe you will lose all credibility as a semi-intelligent person...
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Fatima, there are many things that you do not understand. But you don't have to understand a thing to get the benefit of it. For instance do you know precisely how the mind works? Can you explain it to others in detail? But you can still enjoy and reap the benefits of having a mind even though you don't truly know how it works right? Fatima, I understand how you feel. There are many things that I do not understand either. For example, I can't understand why someone would reject Jesus. I do not understand why a person would strap a bomb to him/herself and detonate it around many innocent men, women, and children, killing himself/herself and others. The suicide bomber believes that killing other people and committing suicide is the will of Allah or that this somehow brings glory to Allah. No Christian martyr (i.e. a person who has been put to death for his/her faith in Jesus Christ for salvation from sin) ever killed anyone else while dying for what he/she believed. Peter, Paul, James, and many other disciples in Jesus' day as well as certain followers of Jesus in our time have died for their faith. But here is the distinction: none of Jesus' followers murdered other people in the process. No Christian (i.e. no true Christian or sane person) ever took the life of another person for Jesus and then took their life. But yet we see it all the time with the followers of Allah. That ought to tell you right there that the God of the Bible and Allah are not the same God. The God of the Bible (YHWH, the Father God, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God) have never instructed us Christians to kill other people and then take our lives in process. Our God (i.e. the God of the Bible) is Love (Personified). There is not one example of a Christian committing suicide and killing others in the process. It is not in the Bible. Here is what is in the Bible:[b]Luke 9:56
For the Son of Man [Jesus Christ] did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.†And they went to another village.I don't care how many times quiero mota ignorantly states that Allah means god in Arabic, I have shown that they are not the same deity. I have already challenged quiero mota to substantiate his claims but he has failed to do so in the past and recently. So, I do understand how you feel Fatima, but just like you, there are many things that I do not understand either, but that does not mean that those things are not true. 🙂 [/B]
What if I were to tell you not all suicide bombers in Palestine are Muslims, there are definitely Christian ones too, oh yea I know what you would do, ignore the point.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[COLOR=darkblue]Here is more proof (or substantiation) Fatima that Christians follow Jesus and Jesus came to earth to save men's (i.e. people's) lives (primarily from the consequences of our sins). But Jesus can save us from physical harm and peril as well if we ask Him to.
Um... "here is more proof Jesus is followed by Christians."
I am sorry, but that is one of the weakest arguments I have seen, and proves nothing. At all. Everyone knows the relevance of Jesus to Christians, that doesn't somehow doesn't invalidate other religions claims of make Christians any more accurate.
The apostle Paul wrote two-thirds of the New Testament under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
Wrong - claimed to have written the Bible under the influence of a holy spirit (vodka maybe?)
The keeper of the prison thought that all of the prisoners had escaped. In that day and time a mistake of that magnitude would cost a person his life. That is why the keeper drew his sword and was about to kill himself. But the apostle Paul called with a loud voice and told the keeper of the prison to do himself no harm. Did you notice how quickly the apostle Paul called out to the keeper of the prison? Paul did not want that man to commit suicide for if he had he would have died and gone straight to Hell.
Ummm.... people killing themselves was not unknown in the ancient world - plenty of texts relate how a family might appeal to a person to run or something rather then kill themselves to save face or honor... does that mean these pagans are proof of pagan Gods??!!! 😱
But thank God (the God of the Bible) that the man did not kill himself. Paul the apostle spoke the word of the Lord (i.e. he preached the gospel, which means good news, to the man and to all who were in his house. The man and those of his household believed in God. Paul the apostle preached the gospel to them and by faith the people repented from their sins and accepted and believed the message of salvation from sin that is possible only through faith in Jesus Christ. As a result, they were saved and now on their way to Heaven.
It is taking them along time to get there - what with them all dying a long time ago. And it is a rather odd story - doesn't sound like the normal way an ancient prison is run.
However, Allah commands that his followers including children be willing to kill themselves and other innocent people for their faith in him. I submit to you Fatima that the God of the Bible (YHWH) and the god of the Qu'ran (Allah) are not the same deity.
Sigh. Weak argument. All you are proving the two religions have different holy texts.
Answer this - is the God of the Jews the same God as the Christian one even with the differences in Jewish Holy texts and Christian updating in the NT?
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Um... "here is more proof Jesus is followed by Christians."I am sorry, but that is one of the weakest arguments I have seen, and proves nothing. At all. Everyone knows the relevance of Jesus to Christians, that doesn't somehow doesn't invalidate other religions claims of make Christians any more accurate.
Wrong - claimed to have written the Bible under the influence of a holy spirit (vodka maybe?)
Ummm.... people killing themselves was not unknown in the ancient world - plenty of texts relate how a family might appeal to a person to run or something rather then kill themselves to save face or honor... does that mean these pagans are proof of pagan Gods??!!! 😱
It is taking them along time to get there - what with them all dying a long time ago. And it is a rather odd story - doesn't sound like the normal way an ancient prison is run.
Sigh. Weak argument. All you are proving the two religions have different holy texts.
Answer this - is the God of the Jews the same God as the Christian one even with the differences in Jewish Holy texts and Christian updating in the NT?
Originally posted by Gregory
You ... you know that Christian Middle Eaterners also worhip "Allah," right? I mean, it's just "God" in a different language."Who is Allah?" The Judeo-Christian God. Next question?
Actually no.
Allah WAS a Pagan Arab god of moon. He had 360 different names, Allah which he was most often refered to.
Christians and Jews in Arabia at the time did NOT refer to their gods as Allah.
It is the same thing as calling Judeo-Christian god Zeus or Thor.
Nah.
I didn't bother reading the article, since i gather the reason for the article is less for general info, and more for...other reasons.
I just asnwered the question of the general thread title.
Its more or less the same thing as the pagan origins of Christianity and Judaism - archeologically they all derive from one thing or another. (begining from gods, to traditions, signs, that kind of stuff)
Christians kept the cross, and other rituals from pagans, as did Jews, and Muslims did too. They kept the cresent moon and the star and their calendar is lunar. (and other things religion related too)
Of course proving Allah is pagan moon god, doesn't really cancel out the pagan origin of Judeo-Christian God.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Actually no.Allah WAS a Pagan Arab god of moon. He had 360 different names, Allah which he was most often refered to.
Christians and Jews in Arabia at the time did NOT refer to their gods as Allah.
It is the same thing as calling Judeo-Christian god Zeus or Thor.
But Allah has become the name for the Monotheistic God that exists in all three myths, including Christianity and Judaism.
Jehovah was once Yahweh, and it is very probably that Yahweh was once Ahura Mazda.
I see it the way Zeus became Jupiter.
Originally posted by Nellinator
Yes, the same God with Jesus creating a new covenant. Allah is not the same God as he is different by nature and practice (ie. text).
Wrong... the same logic applies to Islam as Muhammad just like Jesus made a new "covenant" or text based off the original concept of a one true God. Islam and Christianity are just another intrepretation of God based off the one god of the Torrah, which in turn has its roots in older pagan religions or what would be now considered pagan religions.