Originally posted by Cosmic Flame
1. Jean has been stated constantly to be the 2nd most power TP on Earth. After Onslaught, she was THE most powerful TP on Earth. Xavier has more experiencce, sure. No one would argue that. By the same token, Jean has done things several times that Xavier didn't think possible. As far as getting into Storm's mind is concerned, quite a few TPs have gotten into Storm's minds before. That's the weakest argument of this fight. When emmas switched powers with Storm, Ororo saw Emma, created a storm outside, and STILL had her mind put into the White Queen's body and didn't wake up until a while later.Besides, Jean doesn't have to be inside her mind to turn off her powers or to activate them. It's a function of the brain that powers work, and of the mind to use them. Rachel was able to use Storm's powers against her wishes, so why wouuldn't Jean be able to?
Stay home indeed.
3. Juggernaut, Magneto, D'Spayre, etc. As a matter of fact, Jean got past Jugg's helmet during the first run of the X-Men. Try again.
4. Storm destroyed the lab. She didn't just destroy the elixir, she destroyed all records relating to it as well. If she just destroyed the elixir, why would there be debris falling everywhere? Why would Jean shield only herself and no one else? Post a scan so that people can form their own opinions.
5. That could be interpreted in so many different ways. If Emma wanted Storm dead, she could have simply turned her brain off.
I love it when people talk about all the large scale destruction that Storm can cause, but neglect to mention one simple fact: she never does because when she warps weather in this way, the effects are felt elsewhere. Not only that, but she has to be able to control what she does. When Shaman created a storm that went out of control, it almost killed her to stop it. One CANNOT separate what Storm can do from whom she is. So what if she can create all these phenomenal weather feats? She won't because it's not in her nature. It's a moot point.
The fact of the matter is if Jean tells Storm's brain to stop functioning, it will. If she tells her hear to stop beating, it will. There's not getting around that. All the electricity in her brain, all the lightning, all the hurricanes, flash floods, monsoons mean nothing. I mean the woman has rendered dozens of people catatonic simultaneously, telepathically evacuated a club with hundreds of people and suppressed their panic. You really honestly and truthfully believe that a Jean, who has known Ororo for almost her entire adult life wouldn't be able to fell her telepathically because of some electricity? She doesn't need to see Storm's innermost thoughts to do it. I don't know why people can't understand the difference.
And for the record, Storm most definitely has limits, one being that she has to be someplace where there is an atmosphere. Remember when the X-men were flying the invisible plane to Asteroid M? Storm could only go so far, because she had to have air to fly things. Jean was who got the plane to Asteroid M.
BTW, please don't call me a liar again.
1) Jean Grey is called the most powerful psi after Xavier, yes. However, she has not in any way, shape or form demonstrated the kind of power to hold this title. The White Queen is a more powerful telepath than JEan Grey going by what they have and been able to accomplish and limitations that have been shown. Can you tell me what Jean has done that Xavier was thought impossible? Please do not bring up anything while she was possessed by the PF. As far as Storm being written down for the telepaths getting into her head, it is a very strong argument if you are reading for true comprehension and a lack of bias. Storm has about 30 years of continuity. For nearly 23 years of that, she has been written to be able to best even the strongest of psis. You are bringing up a very small corner of her character written by writers who stripped the character of iher indomitable will which enabled telepaths to take her out of fights. This is obviously writing the character down and a blatant way of doing it. Emma used a persona-exchange module gun to swap minds with Ororo. It was not done with her TP. Storm's will had grown too strong for Emma by this time. What you are also forgetting is that if a character has a strong enough will, a telepath is completely powerless against them in a fight unless they can do physical energy blasts somehow with their TP. Emma has done this twice. JEan has never done this.
2) Jean Grey does have to go into Ororo's mind to turn off her powers. There is no other way.
3) Jean got through Juggernaut's helmet? Whoop-di-do. Even Psylocke once made him feel it through his helmet. Juggernaut was written down. That's all. What you are doing in bringing this up is bringing to question anything you may say about Jean vs. other characters in continuity. If there is a trend where characters are being written down to make Jean shine, then she loses credibility as a character. Neither Jean nor Psylocke (who isn't even a psi of the highest order) should be able to make Juggernaut feel a thing with his helmet on. There is continuity showing Juggernaut not being affected by telepaths much stronger than either of these two.
4) You are purposely trying to get off topic here. You are trying to maximize the small things that do not matter. You are correct. Storm did destroy more than the elixer, but that is not the point. The point is the glass is the only thing that hit that force-field. The caption said that her field could barely keep out the glass. Not one bolt of lightning was shown or mentioned touching the force-field.
5) No she cannot. Storm's willpower is too strong. Secondly, now that Ororo's electrical powers can now fry the brain of any telepath that tries to assault her, Jean is really up the creak.
6)The point of me bringing up the destruction Ororo can do is to give you an idea of her power level. JEan does not approach that power level. Storm doesn't have to go anywhere near that to beat JEan in a fight. She has unleashed power against Magneto that would slaughter Jean in a fight.
In regards to Jean being the second most powerful telepath, that's really laughable. First, the White Queen is really the stronger telepath. If you don't believe me, start up a Jean/Emma thread without the PF and I will bury you. Then you always have obscure telepaths that show up for just an arc or two and then show up every blue moon afterwards for a story who has TP way above Jean Grey. Exodus comes to mind here.
I never called you a liar. I just feel that your reasoning is flawed as you are not giving Storm her credit. She's way beyond Jean. Those Storm fans who are trying to give Jean a 50/50 shot against Ororo are being VERY generous.
For the guy who says that Jean snaps Ororo's neck, no way. Uncanny 267 shows that Storm can attack Jean with less effort and concentration that Jean can attack her. Unlimited issue 7 shows that Storm can generate an electrical field about herself that deflects TK powers.
Jean Grey without Phoenix Force isn't really Jean Grey, is she? It's in her powers to access the PF, not every chump could do it.
And I'm going to check out that "electrical field that deflects TK powers", ten bucks says that it simply deflects a psi-bolt...
And you sure that you got Uncanny X-Men 267 right? Because Jean Grey was not in the issue...
http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/issues/showquestion.asp?fldAuto=3293
But right off the bat, are you talking about the issue where Storm puts Jean Grey in whirlwind and takes her air off?
Originally posted by Rutog98It's called telekinesis. And it snaps Storm's neck like a twig. Or crushes her ribcage into her lungs. Or gives her a massive cerebral hemorrhage. Or pulls her spine out of her ass.
For the guy who says that Jean snaps Ororo's neck, no way. Uncanny 267 shows that Storm can attack Jean with less effort and concentration that Jean can attack her. Unlimited issue 7 shows that Storm can generate an electrical field about herself that deflects TK powers.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
It's called telekinesis. And it snaps Storm's neck like a twig. Or crushes her ribcage into her lungs. Or gives her a massive cerebral hemorrhage. Or pulls her spine out of her ass.
does it mean she can also reverse their blood flow?
if telekinesis of that extent can control organic functions, wouldnt that deem her unbeatable against most?
for example, can jean give Thor or Hulk cerebral hemorrhage or pull their spine out of their backs?
maybe nate can, but jean.....
I don't believe the argument was whether Jeans telekinesis could beat Storm...because we've already established that it works faster then Storms "Blink of an eye".
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/996/speedofthoughtmh6.jpg
Which means TK stomps her.
Especially when it inhibits her powers.
http://img152.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=03962_axmb_101_472lo.jpg
http://img109.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=04308_axmb_102_540lo.jpg
http://img159.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=04470_axmb_103_449lo.jpg
The entire debate HoF and I had was over telepathy. Because having an idominable will doesn't mean you're protect you from Psi-Fries and Psi-Force bolts.(Which Storm has been put down by before)
Storms resistance to telepathy has been stated on panel to be to deeper probing and she's shown resistance to mind control(A battle of wills) just like Wolverine. However she has been taken out by Psi-Fries and Psi-Force bolts which is a completely different type of attack. That is why she's not immune to telepathy.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Telepathy is more accurately described as FTL if in process, because it's quantum-mechanical in nature. Storm's powers obey Newtonian mechanics, they have lag.
Exactly...and even then it's far more then that...when you consider Xavier and Lilandra communicating over light years..without any lag.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Telepathy is more accurately described as FTL if in process, because it's quantum-mechanical in nature. Storm's powers obey Newtonian mechanics, they have lag.
wrong. man's laws of science are based on man's knowledge and understanding of science. which is limited.
Remember Gallileo said the world was round, orbited the sun etc...
the laws of science , as written by the scientific community stated Earth was flat, The Sun was a sattellite ... they were wrong. their knowledge was limited.
the actuall laws of the cosmos and nature are different from the laws of the cosmos and nature as written by man. And storm is an Elemental, this is beyond question. On a genetic/sub atomic and mental levell she has absolute controll over "THE" Natural laws , not 1% not 25% not 95% - Complete controll. Like Magneto.
Jean Grey lives in an environment/element In which Storm has complete controll, lot of people in denial on this forum.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Exactly...and even then it's far more then that...when you consider Xavier and Lilandra communicating over light years..without any lag.
Yea, that's T-E-L-E-P-A-T-H-Y not psychokenesis(TK), which wouldn't
work anyway.
The thing is, Jean's powers are more metaphysical which leaves people the liberty to pretty much take them anywhere they want-- shytting all over logic, physics etc. Whereas Storm's powers are psionic control over energy Patterns(PERIOD) which while on earth manifest in meterological phenomena, which is an actual SCIENCE that people observe and study.
I find that with most of these "storm vs" threads, her opponents usuallly are more "out there" with their powers which gives people liberty to use their imagination more and basically make shyt up as they go along to give "character x" a "win". That's storm's main downfall in these silly ass "vs" threads.
Storm still wins. Light(lighning) is faster than human thought. Lightning approaches speeds in excess of 186,000 miles per second and can reach 120,000,000 volts.(see, actual SCIENCE).
Jean would NOT be fast enough to do ANYTHING.
The end 😮💨 💃
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Exactly...and even then it's far more then that...when you consider Xavier and Lilandra communicating over light years..without any lag.
Lillandra's an Alien.
The Shiar deity gave the Shiar race a wierd capacity to resonate with their true love.
Lillandra's an Alien, and I'd like to see Xavier communicating with Corsair when they're light years apart.
Originally posted by 2damnloud
Yea, that's T-E-L-E-P-A-T-H-Y not psychokenesis(TK), which wouldn't
work anyway.The thing is, Jean's powers are more metaphysical which leaves people the liberty to pretty much take them anywhere they want-- shytting all over logic, physics etc. Whereas Storm's powers are psionic control over energy Patterns(PERIOD) which while on earth manifest in meterological phenomena, which is an actual SCIENCE that people observe and study.
I find that with most of these "storm vs" threads, her opponents usuallly are more "out there" with their powers which gives people liberty to use their imagination more and basically make shyt up as they go along to give "character x" a "win". That's storm's main downfall in these silly ass "vs" threads.
Storm still wins. Light(lighning) is faster than human thought. Lightning approaches speeds in excess of 186,000 miles per second and can reach 120,000,000 volts.(see, actual SCIENCE).
Jean would NOT be fast enough to do ANYTHING.
The end 😮💨 💃
Jesus Christ.
And don't come to talk about science when it comes to Storm. The woman creates rainstorms INSIDE houses.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
[b]Both telepathy and telekinesis operate at the speed of thought, which means that they are as fast. And Jean only needs thought, Storm needs thought AND action, which means, that JEAN-IS-FASTER.Jesus Christ.
And don't come to talk about science when it comes to Storm. The woman creates rainstorms INSIDE houses. [/B]
But action isen't going to take time at all when dealing with lightning i'm afraid. 🙁
