Jean Grey vs. Storm

Started by don't shiv50 pages
Originally posted by Rutog98
LOL! Magneto cannot do any such thing to the Earth without the aid of a machine. In Magneto War, he had to use a machine to turn off the lights around the world. When the machine was broken and he was forced to try and manipulate the energy without the aid of the machine, he was lucky to live as it burned his power out and he failed miserably.

you're right Remember when Maggie kills his xorn id and takes over manhattan, he uses drugs to increase his pwr artificially, he was fixing to flip Earth or something sinster

Xorn wasn't Magneto. Magneto has EMPed the entire planet under his own power.

Originally posted by Rutog98
LOL! Magneto cannot do any such thing to the Earth without the aid of a machine. In Magneto War, he had to use a machine to turn off the lights around the world. When the machine was broken and he was forced to try and manipulate the energy without the aid of the machine, he was lucky to live as it burned his power out and he failed miserably.

😂

You better stop debating about Magneto before you humiliate yourself even more.

in new x men Xorn, master of Zen, healer, teacher, with a star for a cpu is revealed as one of Maggie's many alter ego's.
in that arc Eric attempts to kill Jean and Logan by sending them to the sun, captures Xavier [again.]
sends the x-men out on wild goose chases [Beast etc etc]
experiments with mutie performance enhancers, seals Manhattan with a force bubble, generates a localised em pulse, opens human death camps, empowers mutants ... for a few days.

untill he jobbs.

I could have sworn magneto could control the entire electro magnetic spectrum of the galaxy? But anyway why won't this topic just die. 🙁

Jean Vs Storm 50/50 🙂

Originally posted by don't shiv
in new x men Xorn, master of Zen, healer, teacher, with a star for a cpu is revealed as one of Maggie's many alter ego's.
in that arc Eric attempts to kill Jean and Logan by sending them to the sun, captures Xavier [again.]
sends the x-men out on wild goose chases [Beast etc etc]
experiments with mutie performance enhancers, seals Manhattan with a force bubble, generates a localised em pulse, opens human death camps, empowers mutants ... for a few days.

untill he jobbs.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Xorn wasn't Magneto.

sticking off topic who was impersonating magneto impersonating xorn?

The real Xorn's brother.

Hot Damn.

That's what you get when you let Morrison write Magneto. His intrepetration of the character was so horrible that they had to retcon it SOME way...

too true

Originally posted by Blair Wind
I agree in the last line. But Storm works on the speed of thought as well. She thinks it, then the weather changes, then she gets offensive. Jean thinks, and it happens. Thinking (brain powers) ARE her power. While both operate on the speed of thought, the use and formation of said powers are at different speeds, with Jean's being faster 😬

How can you think Storm's powers are faster than thought if she herself operates at the speed of thought? 😕

Jean has to concentrate harder than Ororo to use her powers. This was established in Uncanny 269, if memory serves me right. That said, for those who said that willpower can only fight off mind control and probing, that is far from the truth. Willpower has also fought off mind blasts. Check out Uncanny 150 with Magneto vs. Xavier. Storm's willpower grew stronger than Magneto's.

As for Soljer, all you can do is come up with some very lame and silly "one-liners," if you can even call them that. Your posts have no substance whatsoever.

In regards to MAgneto controlling the entire EM spectrum, what has he done with it? He's really nothing there. When he does his major power stunts, they are done with magnetism. He is not powerful with infared (all he has done is blasted a heat beam once here) or gamma rays or light or electricity or anything else. He is VERY limited at best in these other areas. His primary power is magnetism. Against someone as powerful as Storm, he would be very foolish to try something in these other areas as he is nowhere near strong enough to do squat to her with them.

Originally posted by Rutog98

In regards to MAgneto controlling the entire EM spectrum, what has he done with it? He's really nothing there. When he does his major power stunts, they are done with magnetism. He is not powerful with infared (all he has done is blasted a heat beam once here) or gamma rays or light or electricity or anything else. He is VERY limited at best in these other areas. His primary power is magnetism. Against someone as powerful as Storm, he would be very foolish to try something in these other areas as he is nowhere near strong enough to do squat to her with them.

So, I believe you have only read his bio?

But as you seem to be SEEKING an owning...here is just one small example from INEXPERIENCED Magneto...
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2273/magblastblowsthroughmountainwi.jpg

And hundreds of scans await you if you wish to continue this.

Originally posted by Rutog98
Jean has to concentrate harder than Ororo to use her powers. This was established in Uncanny 269, if memory serves me right.

Umm...no it wasn't...there's nothing of the sort in UXM #269...
Jean is faster...
http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uxm384pg11cn8.jpg
Thought and Execution are one.

Storms powers are thought then action.

Remember all those vague statements where Storms powers work at a blink of an eye....well just how fast is that blink...


Seconds....

That said, for those who said that willpower can only fight off mind control and probing, that is far from the truth. Willpower has also fought off mind blasts. Check out Uncanny 150 with Magneto vs. Xavier.

On the page where Magneto resists...it says "Telepathic Attack" not mind blast...a telepathic attack can be anything including Mind Control. Plus if you look later on in that very same issue that Magneto couldn't resist Xavier's Psi-bolt.

Not to mention the fact that Magneto is a telepath as well.

Storm's willpower grew stronger than Magneto's.

When has this ever been stated? The issue you gave a few pages back said nothing of the sort.

BTW debating who would win in a Magneto and Storm fight...is not even funny...Magnetos feats makes hers look like a cripple with a serious hip problem.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
So, I believe you have only read his bio?

But as you seem to be SEEKING an owning...here is just one small example from INEXPERIENCED Magneto...
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2273/magblastblowsthroughmountainwi.jpg

And hundreds of scans await you if you wish to continue this.

lol. That's nothing. I'm sorry. An experienced Storm stopped a hemisphere-sized hurricane dead in its tracks before she joined the X-men. Nothing Magneto has ever done without the aid of a machine can begin to compare with it. Look, my cousin's favorite character is Magneto. This is a debate that he and I have had for a very long time. I have likely read all of your scans and dealt with them. He is far more of a debater than your side is proving to be. Show me where Magneto is controlling the EM fields on a scale Storm has controlled the weather without the aid of a machine. If you can't do that, he doesn't have anywhere near the power to beat Storm. Actually, if she can stop a hemisphere-sized hurricane and Magneto can cause a blackout over a hemisphere without a machine, her stunt is FAR more powerful than his. Sorry, but its true. Her powers are much more violent and percussive.

Please explain to me what you tried to accomplish by posting that scan? What I saw there was a display of his power over magnetism. I agree that he is very powerful *in that realm of power*, just not enough to defeat Storm at levels she has been written in continuity.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Umm...no it wasn't...there's nothing of the sort in UXM #269...
Jean is faster...
http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uxm384pg11cn8.jpg
Thought and Execution are one.

Storms powers are thought then action.

Remember all those vague statements where Storms powers work at a blink of an eye....well just how fast is that blink...


Seconds....

On the page where Magneto resists...it says "Telepathic Attack" not mind blast...a telepathic attack can be anything including Mind Control. Plus if you look later on in that very same issue that Magneto couldn't resist Xavier's Psi-bolt.

Not to mention the fact that Magneto is a telepath as well.

When has this ever been stated? The issue you gave a few pages back said nothing of the sort.

BTW debating who would win in a Magneto and Storm fight...is not even funny...Magnetos feats makes hers look like a cripple with a serious hip problem.

"A literal blink of an eye" is much faster than seconds. Its going to be a very small fraction of a second. It is most likely faster than a thought. When you blink, it is something done automatically without thought, if I remember correctly. Raction time is the same. For instance, if you put your hand on a hot stove, if you see it, your reaction is going to be to snatch your hand away from the stove. This can happen even before your brain has time to tell your hand that it was hurt. Speed of thought does not equal instant in the way you mean it. In Uncanny 269, Ororo tells Jean, "A disadvatage of TK is that you have to concentrate to use it. I will not allow you that concentration," and she proceeds to win the fight.

In the 1986 Annual, the issue states that Storm's will is the strongest of the X-Men. Magneto was a member of the team at that point and was as much a combat member as Ororo.

In X-Men: Heroes for Hope, The Entity defeated Magneto psychically, but Ororo was too strong for him.

Magneto was not a telepath in Uncanny 150 as the issue made darn sure we knew it and it firmly established that Magneto fought off that mental attack by willpower alone. As far as later on in the story when Xavier psi-blasted him, it did not take MAgneto out of the fight and he was also concentrating on fighting the other X-Men. Thus, he had less to spare to resist the TP assault.

Lets not forget in that Excalibur issue (if the title was not called that, its when Xavier and MAgneto had their title and were on Genosha), Callisto assaulted Magneto. Xavier stated that it was possible that he may not have been able to stop Callisto at all because of her mental dicipline and willpower. Regardless of how you want to put it, willpower does fight off all mental assaults. White Queen tried to kill Ororo in Uncanny 152. She was out for blood there. Your side's whole argument of her trying to make Ororo her slave or something is totally ridiculous.

QUOTE=7887125]Originally posted by DarkCrawler
So, I believe you have only read his bio?

But as you seem to be SEEKING an owning...here is just one small example from INEXPERIENCED Magneto...
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2273/magblastblowsthroughmountainwi.jpg

And hundreds of scans await you if you wish to continue this. [/QUOTE]

lol. That's nothing. I'm sorry. An experienced Storm stopped a hemisphere-sized hurricane dead in its tracks before she joined the X-men. Nothing Magneto has ever done without the aid of a machine can begin to compare with it. Look, my cousin's favorite character is Magneto. This is a debate that he and I have had for a very long time. I have likely read all of your scans and dealt with them. He is far more of a debater than your side is proving to be. Show me where Magneto is controlling the EM fields on a scale Storm has controlled the weather without the aid of a machine. If you can't do that, he doesn't have anywhere near the power to beat Storm. Actually, if she can stop a hemisphere-sized hurricane and Magneto can cause a blackout over a hemisphere without a machine, her stunt is FAR more powerful than his. Sorry, but its true. Her powers are much more violent and percussive.

Please explain to me what you tried to accomplish by posting that scan? What I saw there was a display of his power over magnetism. I agree that he is very powerful *in that realm of power*, just not enough to defeat Storm at levels she has been written in continuity. He blasted through a mountain which would have high metallic content. Big deal. When he was older and much more expierienced, he suffered from broken ribs and everything.
Despite that, he was able to tunnel through the earth and a volcanoe with his powers. In the same story arc, he admitted that Storm could have defeated him if she did not hold back with her powers.

In Uncanny 150, while he was stunned, his force-field easily withstood the combined powers of Cyclops (whose optic blasts can punch a hole through a mountain like your Magneto scan, but its not limited to metal), Colossus who had class 100 strength in that issue as he lifted the blackbird on his back and Wolverine. Storm came along, after Magneto fully recovered from the stun and was made even more powerful by absorbing her bioelectric blasts (it has never been shown that Magneto can take a raw bolt from the sky or anything), and by herself, she smashed his force-field with her winds. Magneto was written at these power levels and still Storm demonstrated the power to best him. She only held back out of mercy or trying for peace.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Umm...no it wasn't...there's nothing of the sort in UXM #269...
Jean is faster...
http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uxm384pg11cn8.jpg
Thought and Execution are one.

Storms powers are thought then action.

Remember all those vague statements where Storms powers work at a blink of an eye....well just how fast is that blink...


Seconds....

On the page where Magneto resists...it says "Telepathic Attack" not mind blast...a telepathic attack can be anything including Mind Control. Plus if you look later on in that very same issue that Magneto couldn't resist Xavier's Psi-bolt.

Not to mention the fact that Magneto is a telepath as well.

When has this ever been stated? The issue you gave a few pages back said nothing of the sort.

BTW debating who would win in a Magneto and Storm fight...is not even funny...Magnetos feats makes hers look like a cripple with a serious hip problem.

"A literal blink of an eye" is much faster than seconds. Its going to be a very small fraction of a second. It is most likely faster than a thought. When you blink, it is something done automatically without thought, if I remember correctly. Raction time is the same. For instance, if you put your hand on a hot stove, if you see it, your reaction is going to be to snatch your hand away from the stove. This can happen even before your brain has time to tell your hand that it was hurt. Speed of thought does not equal instant in the way you mean it. In Uncanny 269, Ororo tells Jean, "A disadvatage of TK is that you have to concentrate to use it. I will not allow you that concentration," and she proceeds to win the fight.

In the 1986 Annual, the issue states that Storm's will is the strongest of the X-Men. Magneto was a member of the team at that point and was as much a combat member as Ororo.

In X-Men: Heroes for Hope, The Entity defeated Magneto psychically, but Ororo was too strong for him.

Magneto was not a telepath in Uncanny 150 as the issue made darn sure we knew it and it firmly established that Magneto fought off that mental attack by willpower alone. As far as later on in the story when Xavier psi-blasted him, it did not take MAgneto out of the fight and he was also concentrating on fighting the other X-Men. Thus, he had less to spare to resist the TP assault.

Lets not forget in that Excalibur issue (if the title was not called that, its when Xavier and MAgneto had their title and were on Genosha), Callisto assaulted Magneto. Xavier stated that it was possible that he may not have been able to stop Callisto at all because of her mental dicipline and willpower. Regardless of how you want to put it, willpower does fight off all mental assaults. White Queen tried to kill Ororo in Uncanny 152. She was out for blood there. Your side's whole argument of her trying to make Ororo her slave or something is totally ridiculous.

Sorry for the double post. I tried editing the first message, but the thing blocked me then it said I could or something. Read the second post, not the first. I wish I could delete posts on here, but there does not seem to be that option.

BTW, was it the "Magneto War"arc where MAgneto withstood 2 nukes? If so, it doesn't count since he was on a magnetic amplication machine. The nukes also felt like hot pokers going through his eyes when he deflected them even boosted to those levels.

"A literal blink of an eye" is much faster than seconds. Its going to be a very small fraction of a second. It is most likely faster than a thought. When you blink, it is something done automatically without thought, if I remember correctly. Raction time is the same. For instance, if you put your hand on a hot stove, if you see it, your reaction is going to be to snatch your hand away from the stove. This can happen even before your brain has time to tell your hand that it was hurt. Speed of thought does not equal instant in the way you mean it. In Uncanny 269, Ororo tells Jean, "A disadvatage of TK is that you have to concentrate to use it. I will not allow you that concentration," and she proceeds to win the fight.

What nonsense...THOUGHT is still required to blink...your body still has to relay a signal in order to tell your muscle to blink.
And that example you gave about being burnt is completely different. That's not thought...that's the signal travelling from your hand to your brain which is far slower then the activation of a single thought. Telepathy and Telekinesis are thought + execution as one. You're going to dispute on panel proof?

I already showed you a scan where Telepathy is thought and execution as one. X showed you a scan where Telekinesis is thought and execution as one.(This is X's mine is in my previous post:

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/996/speedofthoughtmh6.jpg)

And I showed you a scan that shows Storms powers working in seconds...which is far less vague then blink of an eye.

Storms powers are slower.

BTW Storm and Jean don't even appear in UXM #269

In the 1986 Annual, the issue states that Storm's will is the strongest of the X-Men. Magneto was a member of the team at that point and was as much a combat member as Ororo.

"Storm is the leader and her's the strongest will" is that what you were referring to?
Magneto wasn't even involved in that group...she's the leader of that particular group that was getting attacked...you're reaching. Mags wasn't even in that part of the story. It didn't say of the entire X-Men, Storm was the leader of a group as was Magneto of a different group.

In X-Men: Heroes for Hope, The Entity defeated Magneto psychically, but Ororo was too strong for him.

Magneto was attacked when he was trying to use cerebro when his mind was most susceptible just like when Nova attacked Xavier...but nonetheless...Storm didn't prove any less susceptible to his illusion. She conquered her inner demons quicker meaning she came to terms with her inner demons quicker it doesn't mean her will is stronger because she still fell for the illusion like everyone else in that issue.

Magneto was not a telepath in Uncanny 150 as the issue made darn sure we knew it and it firmly established that Magneto fought off that mental attack by willpower alone. As far as later on in the story when Xavier psi-blasted him, it did not take MAgneto out of the fight and he was also concentrating on fighting the other X-Men. Thus, he had less to spare to resist the TP assault.

He fought off that Telepathic Attack...which you nor I know the nature of. No his attention was directed to Xavier at that part of the story. Wolverine then suprised them both with his attack...point being....he couldn't resist it like he did to the previous "Telepathic Attack" because it was a different type of telepathic attack.

Also he was a telepath back then..it's called a retcon...he started off as one and then it was retconned the first time by Claremont into him possessing no psionic talents of his own and then it was retconned back to him being a telepath when he was with the X-Men in the UXM 210's..and then this was touched on again in 1998 where Doom looks at Magneto and Xaviers past...meaning he was a telepath back then. Plus you're forgetting the added resistance from his helmet due to Morrisons retcon. And again it was a "Telepathic Attack" which for all we know is mind control..it doesn't state anything about it being a mind blast. Later on in the story when Xavier psi-blasted Magneto...Mags doesn't show the same resistance to that...his helmet granted him enough interference to knock Xavier out with a spanner...but this only happened when Wolvey came out of no where and suprised them both. And as stated before he was a telepath back then due to the retcon.

Lets not forget in that Excalibur issue (if the title was not called that, its when Xavier and Magneto had their title and were on Genosha), Callisto assaulted Magneto. Xavier stated that it was possible that he may not have been able to stop Callisto at all because of her mental dicipline and willpower. Regardless of how you want to put it, willpower does fight off all mental assaults. White Queen tried to kill Ororo in Uncanny 152. She was out for blood there. Your side's whole argument of her trying to make Ororo her slave or something is totally ridiculous.

He never said anything about Willpower...he said she had a natural resistance...and three things should be noted.

1.) Xaviers powers were weakened when he went to Genosha due to his guilt.
2.) Xavier wasn't going to mind blast her...due to his morals.
3.) If anything Xavier would have used mind control to make her stop. Hence the resistance.

The White Queen never tried to kill Ororo in that...she wanted her powers remember...she was going to turn Storm into a vegetable from the statement she made...

"I know your mind as well as I know my own"

If she was going to psi-bolt Storm she wouldn't have said that....knowing the persons mind does not give you the upper hand when you psi-bolt or psi-fry them. It only does when you mind control them....or try and change their behaviour.

It would fall into the category of either mind control or behaviour modification like in X-treme....that's why Storm could resist. On an added note...Ororo WAS trying to kill Emma then...and her bloodlusted Lightning Bolt did absolutely nothing.

Plus you're forgetting that Emma knocked Ororo and two others out with her Psi-Force bolt on panel.

Will power cannot protect you against Psi-fries...or Psi-Force Bolts as shown on panel. This has been shown on panel...by Emma and Ororo...Wolverine and Emma...Magneto and Xavier when Xavier mind wiped him.

On panel proof shows...
Storm getting knocked out by Emma's psi-force bolt...
Storm getting knocked out of the skies by Emma's psy fry...
Storm getting mind raped by Onslaught and also Legion,
Storm gets knocked out by Legion.
Storm getting hurt by Emma's probing
Storm getting messed up by Deathbirds Psi-Scream..Xavier has to help her with this.
Storm getting her mind shut down by Rachel and then her powers used against her will.
Storm getting hurt badly by the Super Skrull...Banshee goes through the same ordeal and gets up before her. Xavier then has to fix her after this.
Storm being affected by a Morlocks psionic stab.
Storm being caught in Xaviers illusion.
Storm being caught in Masterminds illusion.
On panel proof shows that with telepathy thought + action are one.
On panel proof shows that with telekinesis thought + action are one.
On panel proof shows that Storms powers have a lag..."Blink of an eye"...which works in seconds.

and by herself, she smashed his force-field with her winds.

She did not smash his forcefield with her winds...there was no forcefield up when she attacked. I believe you brought this up before and someone brought the fact that his shields weren't up to your attention. Except you seem to have ignored their comment.

Mind Rape.
http://img158.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-2497/loc303/05156_Uncanny_X_Men_129_16_303lo.jpg
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/4913/uncannyxmen27816fu9.jpg
http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/8240/uncannyxmen27817ql8.jpg
http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=14xj3.jpg

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/8868/uxm155page11ky6.jpg
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4735/uxm155page15pd6.jpg
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/4493/uxm155page16pi8.jpg

http://img245.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hruncannyxmen320large11vl5.jpg
http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hruncannyxmen320large1213ip8.jpg
http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hruncannyxmen320large14zs3.jpg
http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hruncannyxmen320large17tm1.jpg

http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenn41p14iz2.jpg
http://img134.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenn41p16hw8.jpg
http://img375.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xtremexmen22p17hgwellsod3.jpg

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/8218/xtremexmen22p17hgwellsgc8.jpg

http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uncannyxmen27719su0.jpg
http://img466.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uncannyxmen27720ti8.jpg
http://img40.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=05296_Uncanny_X_Men_1980_03_131_07_438lo.jpg
http://img109.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=05601_Uncanny_X_Men_1980_03_131_10_428lo.jpg

Storm says it herself that TK inhibits her powers.
http://img152.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=03962_axmb_101_472lo.jpg
http://img109.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=04308_axmb_102_540lo.jpg
http://img159.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=04470_axmb_103_449lo.jpg

A comparison between a beaten up conscious Storm and an unconscious telepath.
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2299/xm16802yx9.jpg
http://img459.imageshack.us/my.php?image=07yj4.jpg

And even Storm has her limits:
http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=theuncannyxmen284p17nw7.jpg
http://img484.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenv208607rougherqb1.jpg
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/5474/uncannyxmen11702xe8.jpg

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
What nonsense...THOUGHT is still required to blink...your body still has to relay a signal in order to tell your muscle to blink.
And that example you gave about being burnt is completely different. That's not thought...that's the signal travelling from your hand to your brain which is far slower then the activation of a single thought. Telepathy and Telekinesis are thought + execution as one. You're going to dispute on panel proof?

I already showed you a scan where Telepathy is thought and execution as one. X showed you a scan where Telekinesis is thought and execution as one.(This is X's mine is in my previous post:

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/996/speedofthoughtmh6.jpg)

And I showed you a scan that shows Storms powers working in seconds...which is far less vague then blink of an eye.

Storms powers are slower.

BTW Storm and Jean don't even appear in UXM #269

"Storm is the leader and her's the strongest will" is that what you were referring to?
Magneto wasn't even involved in that group...she's the leader of that particular group that was getting attacked...you're reaching. Mags wasn't even in that part of the story. It didn't say of the entire X-Men, Storm was the leader of a group as was Magneto of a different group.

Magneto was attacked when he was trying to use cerebro when his mind was most susceptible just like when Nova attacked Xavier...but nonetheless...Storm didn't prove any less susceptible to his illusion. She conquered her inner demons quicker meaning she came to terms with her inner demons quicker it doesn't mean her will is stronger because she still fell for the illusion like everyone else in that issue.

He fought off that Telepathic Attack...which you nor I know the nature of. No his attention was directed to Xavier at that part of the story. Wolverine then suprised them both with his attack...point being....he couldn't resist it like he did to the previous "Telepathic Attack" because it was a different type of telepathic attack.

Also he was a telepath back then..it's called a retcon...it was retconned the first time and then it was retconned back to him being a telepath..in 1988 meaning he was a telepath back then. Plus you're forgetting the added resistance from his helmet due to Morrisons retcon. And again it was a "Telepathic Attack" which for all we know is mind control..it doesn't state anything about it being a mind blast. Later on in the story when Xavier psi-blasted Magneto...Mags had no resistance to that...his helmet granted him enough interference to knock Xavier out with a spanner...but this only happened when Wolvey came out of no where and suprised them both. And as stated before he was a telepath back then due to the retcon.

He never said anything about Willpower...he said she had a natural resistance...and three things should be noted.

1.) Xaviers powers were weakened when he went to Genosha due to his guilt.
2.) Xavier wasn't going to mind blast here...due to his morals.
3.) If anything Xavier would have used mind control to make her stop. Hence the resistance.

The White Queen never tried to kill Ororo in that...she wanted her powers remember...she was going to turn Storm into a vegetable from the statement she made...

"I know your mind as well as I know my own"

If she was going to psi-bolt Storm she wouldn't have said that....you don't need to know the persons mind inorder to psi-bolt or fry them. But to mind control them....or change their behaviour you would.

It would fall into the category of either mind control or behaviour modification like in X-treme....that's why Storm could resist. On an added note...Ororo WAS trying to kill Emma then...and her bloodlusted Lightning Bolt did absolutely nothing.

Plus you're forgetting that Emma knocked Ororo and two others out with her Psi-Force bolt on panel.

Willpower cannot protect you against Psi-fries...or Psi-Force Bolts as shown on panel.

On panel proof shows...
Storm getting knocked out by Emma's psi-force bolt...
Storm getting knocked out of the skies by Emma's psy fry...
Storm getting mind raped by Onslaught and also Legion,
Storm gets knocked out by Legion.
Storm getting hurt by Emma's probing
Storm getting messed up by Deathbirds Psi-Scream..Xavier has to help her with this.
Storm getting her mind shut down by Rachel and then her powers used against her will.
Storm getting hurt badly by the Super Skrull...Banshee goes through the same ordeal and gets up before her. Xavier then has to fix her after this.
Storm being affected by a Morlocks psionic stab.
Storm being caught in Xaviers illusion.
Storm being caught in Masterminds illusion.
On panel proof shows that with telepathy thought + action are one.
On panel proof shows that with telekinesis thought + action are one.
On panel proof shows that Storms powers have a lag..."Blink of an eye"...which works in seconds.

She did not smash his forcefield with her winds...there was no forcefield up when she attacked. I believe you brought this up before and someone brought this to your attention. Except you seem to have ignored their comment.

Mind Rape.
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Storm says it herself that TK inhibits her powers.
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A comparison between a beaten up conscious Storm and an unconscious telepath.
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And even Storm has her limits:
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ExodusCloak> nutkick <Rutog

Okay, my turn...

As far as Storm vs. Jean Grey, I do not have my issues with me. I just know its circa 267-273. Storm was in her child form, courtesy of Nanny. She and Jean battled in the danger room and that is where this happened. Jean has to concentrate harder than Ororo to bring her powers to bear. You are trying to omit the concentration factor that all telepaths much adhere to.

As far as Storm's powers working in seconds, there was an issue (Marvel Fanfare issue 3, I believe) where she and Sauron fought. Storm was so weakened by being drained by Sauron, yet when he and Storm faced each other cowboy style on the draw and all, Storm was quicker than Sauron and hit him with a blizzard. It does not take seconds for Sauron to try and hypnotize. In Uncanny 175, Storm summoned all of the elements at her command before anyone present could do anything. Mastermind was present and he was the villain in the story. He is a psi.

If I remember correctly, it was Rachel with the Phoenix Force that was on Cerebro. Anywhoo, you have to prove that Magneto was more succeptible to attacks when he was on Cerebro. He was no telepath under CC's pen as Uncanny 150 irrefutably states. Don't add a telepath's weakness to a non-psi. And Storm conquering her demons where Magneto FAILED to reflects a stronger mind.

In the 1986 Annual, Magneto was in Storm's group. The two groups were the X-Men and the New Mutants. Magneto was not in the New Mutants group. lol! That is why when the two teams fought, Magneto was on the X-Men side.

As for the retconning of Magneto's telepathy, it has no bearing here. Uncanny X-Men 150 firmly proves that willpower alone can fight off mental attacks besides just mind controlling and psi-probing. The issue stated that willpower alone was enough. There is no retcon that goes back to this issue and retcons it to the contrary. That's just a silly argument on your part. Heck, in Uncanny 277, Warskrull was mindblasting Storm and the X-Men. He was not trying to make slaves of them or read their thoughts. All he managed to do was subdue Storm temporarily as she would have broken his hold. This is a guy who had the combined powers of Xavier (a much stronger telepath than Jean Grey), Psylocke and Oracle (Shi'ar's most powerful telepath). Storm's willpower fought it.

In regards to the Xavier/Callisto thing, Storm has a much stronger natural resistance to TP than Callisto. There is no contesting this given the history between the two. Xavier made this comment with Callisto, so it really bolsters Ororo. Now, in regards to your 3 things, I will grant you on the first one. However, the other two, I disagree. Xavier will mindblast as he mindblasted Magneto in Uncanny 150.

In regards to Uncanny 150 and Xavier mindblasting Magneto in the middle of a fight between himself and the X-Men, he was unable to drop MAgneto at that time and Magneto's concentration became focused on him AFTER the mind attack had already commenced.

Also, can you tell me where in the story it states that Magneto's helmet added protection from TP assaults? This is something that came along afterwards. In this issue, Magneto fought Xavier off of willpower alone. There was no helmet blocking TP assaults. There was no telepathic Magneto fighting it off. The issue states willpower alone. If you don't like this, tough!

In regards to Storm vs. Emma, when Emma made that comment about knowing Ororo's mind as well as she knows her own, she said that because willpower can resist all TP assaults. You just don't want to accept it. Too bad. She underestimated Storm and was going by the Dark Phoenix Saga when she trumped Ororo and the X-Men. BTW, in the DP Saga, Emma used a mind bolt on them. It was not a mind control attack or a mind probe to read thoughts. She knocked them out and they did resist. It just so happened that Ororo grew a stronger will by 152 and it was too much for Emma's TP. Emma was going on a previous encounter thinking that Ororo could not resist her TP. What else did she say after that? Emma said that Storm would be just a memory by morning via the storm Ororo had banished just earlier. If somebody says that come tomorrow, you'll just be a memory, in other words, they are going to kill you. Emma was bloodthirsty and Storm became bloodthirsty. Emma lacked the power to carry through and Ororo was going to kill her with her bare hands. Emma lacked the power to stop her and Wolverine had to step in to save Emma.

Now, in regards to your TP scans, please post the issues. I am unable to see your scans. I am on these university computers and sometimes I am unable to see scans. I will caution you though. There is already sufficient proof in comics that reflects that Ororo can withstand TP assaults. She has proven her merit against the likes of Shadow King and psis more powerful than Xavier. She has done this kind of stuff multiple times. If you bring up stuff from the 90's, I am going to smash you down with that. Storm has been around 30 years. During the 7 years or so where Lobdell/Kelly/Seagle wrote, they wrote Storm without her indomitable will. They weakened her powers as well. On these boards and for the purposes of these debates, we do not go by write downs. In other words, if a character lifts a plane in one issue, yet in another issue they are unable to lift a car, we give credence to the plane. Same here. If a character resists the Shadow King yet falls to someone like Jean Grey, we give the Shadow King credence since they were written down for Ms. Grey. Trust me, I am very experienced in these debates. I am more than prepared for you telepathic issues you are trying to use against Ororo. Storm has proven her merit time and again. CC spent a lot of time developing her character in his initial 17 year run. Her willpower grew apace with it. That is why Emma's TP was able to stop Storm in Dark Phoenix Saga but not in 152. It reflected change and growth in the Storm character. One thing CC did was check and balance with the characters. In other words, he gave a special few non-telepathic characters means to combat telepathy. Otherwise, a telepath will always trump a non-telepath. This willpower that he worked hard to develop in a precious few characters is an expression of that. Storm exeplifies this at its zenith.

I am by no means stating that Ororo can't be taken by surprise by a telepath. If Jean managed a TP assault from ambush, she could very well take her out of a fight. However, we are debating where neither character is caught unawares.

Okay, now all of this said, Storm is a character like any other character. CC (and a few other writers) made her incredibly strong and nearly unbeatable. That means that she is going to be written down for some stories to work. For instance, Rachel should not have been able to control her powers like that in that one issue you mentioned. During "Schism," Rachel, who was possessed by Bogan, could not even touch Ororo's mind. She had not only her powers, but Bogan's added to hers as well. Earlier in that story, when Rachel tried to shut Storm's mind down, she was unable to. Storm said that she could beat Rachel, but she would have to kill her and was willing to kill Rachel along with her team and their enemies. Kurt had to knock her out. If Storm had only her willpower alone, Rachel could have done it as when Ororo was rendered unconscious, she noodled her way into Ororo's head so she could bypass most of her will. However, CC gave Ororo the added boost of electricity frying telepaths trying to assault her mind when Ororo is in-tuned with her powers. That should have stopped Rachel. However, for the sake of the story, that had to be ignored. For the sake of the debate, Storm has that power.

In regards to Storm smashing his force-field in Uncanny 150, she most certainly did. Where did he drop it? He had his force-field up when she fired her lightning at him. He told her how his oversight of her death may be his downfall, but her lightning alone will not defeat him. He had his force-field up during this. She then tells him, "They (referring to her biolightning bolts) are not the only weapons at my disposal and are far from my most powerful." At this point, you are saying that Magneto dropped his force-field so he could feel the full fury of whatever else she was going to do, right? LOL! She then whipped up a tornado. It smashed the force-field.