Mace Windu vs Darth Vader

That's less than 13 seconds!

Seriously, Dooku > Kenobi in the Force by a decent margin, perhaps a good league or two. Kenobi has no defense against someone who's adeptness in the Force is among the top five of the PT era (and it's a big gap of pure power to the likes of Obi-Wan) - this was shown in the RotS duel. And Prodigal, if you think Obi-Wan "forgot" or "wasn't prepared", that is pure speculated bullshit. Either Kenobi is an incompetent duelist, or your thoughts are severly flawed.

Yes, but Kenobi and Skywalker are well aware of Dooku's arrogance. They know how he toys around with Jedi and enjoy the humiliation. They didn't think he would go all out on them, but instead decapitate him before he got his act together, which he did

I'd wager the latter given the fact he is an au fait duelist. If you recall during their duel in RotS, Kenobi was Force pushed prior to being completely taken out by Count Dooku. So, there's no reason for him to completely oblivious to the fact when it happened moments before.

I'd also like to take an excerpt from the Revenge of the Sith novelization:

"He gathered the Force once more in a single indrawn breath that summoned power from throughout the universe; the slightest whipcrack of that power, negligent as a flick of his wrist, sent Kenobi flying backward to crash hard against the wall, but Dooku didn't have time to enjoy it. "

-- Revenge of the Sith novel, Chapter 3.

It's pretty obvious that Dooku would tool Kenobi with relative ease using the Force considering what is above; it's also apparent from a single line that Dooku is, at the least, a mile ahead of Obi-Wan in the Force. Plus, when you consider all of what the Count has done with the Force, and the descriptions - it's clear that he's Obi-Wan's superior.

1.) Dooku pushed Kenobi merely to test out Anakin for a second. When Anakin started ferociously beating him down, Dooku realized that he HAS to fight at HIS BEST. When Dooku pushed Kenobi, it was more like a regular Push. Kenobi believed that Dooku was trying to take out Anakin, so he rushes back. He doesn't realize that Dooku isn't going to pull out an impressive fighting tactic.

Dooku performs a splendid Kick-Choke-Throw manuever which gets rid of Anakin temporarily and eliminates Kenobi. Kenobi, nor Anakin, would have expected something as perfect as that because they didn't believe Dooku would try to take them seriously till the last second, when it's too late.

And consider this fact. Both Anakin and Obi-Wan were on Dooku's left and right. Obi-Wan and Anakin are both equal in the Force (this is shown in the Mustafar Duel, neither Kenobi or Anakin could Push the other back). Dooku could have EASILY kicked Kenobi and then down the Choke Throw on Skywalker. Definately, he could, and Anakin would have been defenseless. By your reasoning then, Dooku can own Anakin in 13 SECONDS!!!!! LOL!!!!! The only reason why Dooku finished off Kenobi is because he wanted to challenge Anakin, otherwise Anakin would have been screwed and Kenobi would have gotten killed.

2.) So what if Kenobi got Pushed by Dooku? Are you saying he cannot retaliate. Kenobi has the skill to fight against Dooku definately for at least a minute.

"z0mg, he f0rced push3d grievous!!!///1ONEELEVEN1?!!!"

My response: BFD.

Grievous is a non-Force using being, who - without a connection to the Force - is plainly unable to defend against Force attacks. Basically, all Obi-Wan did was Force push some hunk of metal. Not so impressive when you consider that fact, because someone like Ki-Adi-Mundi or Mara Jade could easily replicate that feat (pushing something analogous to a droid [Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan did it in TPM, IIRC]). I don't see either of them being on par with Count Dooku, let alone lasting more than five seconds in a pure Force battle.

In an all-out fight? Let's see: RotS revisted. That took all of, as I said before, 13 seconds.

Kenobi brought down a ton of metal with not even a sweat. Dooku took several second to bring down some wall debris against Yoda which weighs the same as the metal Kenobi brought down. And Grievous is quick enough to dodge bullets shot by Clones. He is super fast. And yet he gets pwned by Obi-Wan.

My basic point is I feel Kenobi is being underrated against Dooku. OMG, Dooku finished him in thirteen seconds, that's what exactly what will happen. Hell no, we have consider all the situations that happened in the duel between Dooku vs. Anakin & Obi-Wan. That's all.

I feel Kenobi WILL LOSE TO DOOKU but NOT IN THIRTEEN SECONDS and maybe for AT LEAST forty seonds to max of maybe two minutes or three minutes.

Sidious's fight with Yoda didn't even last that long. Those two are equals. Anakin's fight with Obi-Wan didn't last that long, either.

Sorry, Prodigal. Obi-Wan gets owned.

And, besides, he just ripped the mooring off of that metal platform in RotS. He didn't pick the damn thing up and drop it.

What are you smoking? The Anakin vs. Obi-Wan duel was literally the longest duel in the SW saga. It was brutal. And Yoda vs. Sidious wasn't even fully shown!!! Apparently they go from fighting each other on a single rising pod to Sidious throwing them at Yoda from above. No, Obi-Wan doesn't get owned, just comfortably defeated.

Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Yes, but Kenobi and Skywalker are well aware of Dooku's arrogance. They know how he toys around with Jedi and enjoy the humiliation. They didn't think he would go all out on them, but instead decapitate him before he got his act together, which he did

As Escape said, you do not have access to a character's train of thought. While it's true Dooku is arrogant, and does often toy around and taunt his opponents - this doesn't mean that Anakin and Obi-Wan just thought Count Dooku would dilly-dally around the majority of the duel, if he's in a position of endangerment - he takes it to the limit. Anakin witnessed this in AotC.

Dooku had thought "no sense taking chances" when he came to the realization that not only had Anakin's Shien tactics been a ploy, but Obi-Wan's Ataru as well and surmised that they [Obi-Wan and Anakin] could possibly take him. And he showed this by Force pushing Kenobi for the first time. As well, this is irrelevant to the fact that Kenobi was tooled with comical ease after their second encounter with blades (after Kenobi ran up the stairs), because by then Dooku wasn't messing around, he had already used a Force attack moments prior, and so on.

Quit making excuses for the fact that Obi-Wan was owned with "the slightest whipcrack, negligent as a flick of the wrist". Do you understand what that single sentence alone implies regarding Dooku vs. Obi-Wan in the Force? It seems to indicate Dooku is a strong league or two above Obi-Wan in the Force, and that Obi-Wan will be curbstomped in the Force.

For a more direct response, see below.

1.) Dooku pushed Kenobi merely to test out Anakin for a second.

Actually, he Force pushed Kenobi so he'd GTFO of the fight. He Force pushed Obi-Wan because he felt that those "clowns" might be able to take him.

When Anakin started ferociously beating him down, Dooku realized that he HAS to fight at HIS BEST. When Dooku pushed Kenobi, it was more like a regular Push. Kenobi believed that Dooku was trying to take out Anakin, so he rushes back. He doesn't realize that Dooku isn't going to pull out an impressive fighting tactic.

Relevance to the fact Dooku tooled Kenobi regardless?

Dooku performs a splendid Kick-Choke-Throw manuever which gets rid of Anakin temporarily and eliminates Kenobi. Kenobi, nor Anakin, would have expected something as perfect as that because they didn't believe Dooku would try to take them seriously till the last second, when it's too late.

According to the novel, you're a bit wrong:

"The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker-
Skywalker was getting stronger.
Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade."

Even Dooku surmises it's no time for games. Why do you think Anakin and Obi-Wan would? It's obvious that you can tell when someone is not fooling around anymore, at least in terms of Star Wars duels (see: Obi-Wan vs. Maul, Dooku vs. AotC Anakin). Dooku was expending quite an amount of energy just to block Skywalker's attacks.

Didn't expect him to try his best? My ass.

As stated above, before the "splendid kick-choke-toss maneuver", he realized that he would have to get serious and not take any chances:

"Realization burst through Dooku's consciousness like the blossoming fireballs of dying ships outside: this pair of Jedi fools had somehow managed to become entirely dangerous.
These clowns might-just possibly-actually be able to beat him.
No sense taking chances; even his Master would agree with that."

This would imply that Count Dooku wasn't fooling around, and did in fact take them seriously as they were a danger to his life, and had the chance of killing him together.

And consider this fact. Both Anakin and Obi-Wan were on Dooku's left and right. Obi-Wan and Anakin are both equal in the Force (this is shown in the Mustafar Duel, neither Kenobi or Anakin could Push the other back).

Just because Anakin couldn't successfully repel a Force push from Obi-Wan doesn't mean they are on equal Force footing. While Obi-Wan isn't miles behind Anakin (as apparent), it's doubtful he's equal to. Anakin was on the defensive anyways in terms of initially blocking.

Dooku could have EASILY kicked Kenobi and then down the Choke Throw on Skywalker. Definately, he could, and Anakin would have been defenseless. By your reasoning then, Dooku can own Anakin in 13 SECONDS!!!!! LOL!!!!!

Except no. And I would leave the response at that, but you piss me off with your moronic, and twisted arguments.

For starters, who ever said Anakin > Dooku in the Force anyways? And plus, it's a different scenario which means different actions. Anakin will not move similar to Obi-Wan given his form, and because of such you cannot just assume he'd tool Anakin that way.

The only reason why Dooku finished off Kenobi is because he wanted to challenge Anakin, otherwise Anakin would have been screwed and Kenobi would have gotten killed.

And...? Your point holds no water because I'd submit Dooku > Anakin in the Force. Albeit, in an all out fight, Anakin would be overwhelming Dooku with a lightsaber, as shown in RotS, to the point where Dooku will have a hard enough time blocking his attacks, let alone countering with a Force attack. Throughout the majority of the duel, Dooku cannot stop Anakin's onslaught. Not before Kenobi was taken out, and not after until - for a short time frame - Dooku taunts Anakin, but shortly thereafter Anakin gets back to pummeling Dooku.

Hell, Anakin was holding back, and was still beating the senseless shit out of Dooku.

2.) So what if Kenobi got Pushed by Dooku? Are you saying he cannot retaliate. Kenobi has the skill to fight against Dooku definately for at least a minute.

In a lightsaber battle? Yes.

In a Force fight? No.

In an all out fight? Hell no.

Actually, yes. I am saying that Obi-Wan does not have sufficient power or proficiency in the Force to stop Force attacks from Dooku, save for Force lightning, and that's only if Kenobi is prepared in the sense he was in AotC (because Sora Bulq was tooled during a fight with Count Dooku via Force lightning).

Kenobi brought down a ton of metal with not even a sweat.

Wow. Cool:

Originally posted by Escape81
And, besides, he just ripped the mooring off of that metal platform in RotS. He didn't pick the damn thing up and drop it.

Not so impressive when you consider what Escape said, and is correct. But do tell, relevance again? Context, please. Dooku has shown us much more impressive displays of powers against Force using beings with nothing more than a finger. What does Obi-Wan bringing a metal platform down have to do with a fight?

Dooku took several second to bring down some wall debris against Yoda which weighs the same as the metal Kenobi brought down.

And? You forget some things: Count Dooku had just fought against Obi-Wan and Anakin using Force attacks on both of them. Force lightning, and a Force push on Anakin (which was described as a "stone wall"😉, Force lightning on Kenobi which was blocked, Force pushing Anakin again. And of course, the fact he'd just battled through them and the novelization described Anakin as giving Dooku a run for his money.

But, this speaks nothing for Kenobi against Dooku. Count Dooku has shown us much more impressive things as documented in my previous threads. And these things far succeed what Kenobi has ever done.

And Grievous is quick enough to dodge bullets shot by Clones. He is super fast. And yet he gets pwned by Obi-Wan.

And yet he was Force pushed through a wall by Shaak-Ti or I believe, it might've even been one of the no name Jedi accompanied with her in the Clone Wars. Good job, Obi-Wan Kenobi! You managed to Force push General Grievous, who has no Force pre-cog or defense, in the middle of a straight lightsaber duel, while he was standing still or at least, moving nowhere but forward (weren't they in a saberlock for Buddha's sake?).

1337 k3n0b1.

And my point is that Dooku can take Kenobi out with the Force with comical ease. I'd give 40 seconds at maximum given the fact it's not going to be exactly like the duel in RotS, however Kenobi doesn't go over a minute given what we've seen of Dooku against various opponents (Sora, Grievous, Asajj, Anakin, etc.) , and again - the comical ease of which Kenobi was taken out.

🙂

As Escape said, you do not have access to a character's train of thought. While it's true Dooku is arrogant, and does often toy around and taunt his opponents - this doesn't mean that Anakin and Obi-Wan just thought Count Dooku would dilly-dally around the majority of the duel, if he's in a position of endangerment - he takes it to the limit. Anakin witnessed this in AotC.

Why can't I? As a matter of fact, every Jedi and Sith are in a state of endangerment whenever they fact. There's always the one percent chance against even simple battle droids that they could get shot in the back while not looking. Dooku always toys around with his opponents he feels are weaker. He doesn't do this against Yoda, but against AOTC Obi-Wan, Asajj, Tholme, he toys around. His arrrogance blinds him, and this prevents him from taking the ROTS duel 100% seriously till the Kick-Choke-Throw.

Dooku had thought "no sense taking chances" when he came to the realization that not only had Anakin's Shien tactics been a ploy, but Obi-Wan's Ataru as well and surmised that they [Obi-Wan and Anakin] could possibly take him. And he showed this by Force pushing Kenobi for the first time. As well, this is irrelevant to the fact that Kenobi was tooled with comical ease after their second encounter with blades (after Kenobi ran up the stairs), because by then Dooku wasn't messing around, he had already used a Force attack moments prior, and so on.

OMG, he did a simple Force Push that knocked Kenobi ten feet away into the Super Battle Droids! Dooku, who is able to do an impressive sequential Kick-Choke-Throw and able to keep up and duel with the likes of Yoda, did at his desperate moment push Obi-Wan away. If you realize with Dooku, he doesn't take people seriously right away. He pushed Kenobi so to see if he can massacre own "clown" (Anakin) by himself. By your given quote:

"The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker-
Skywalker was getting stronger.
Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade."

This shows how Dooku is now 100% desperate as hell. That's why when he sees Obi-Wan running at him, he literally does one of his finest (not to mention in all of SW) and most desperate defensive counters: the Kick-Choke-Throw against Kenobi.

As you can see, the Kick-Choke-Throw is a far more impressive move than a Force Push, which probably signifies the difference in desperation levels. Dooku could have easily done a Kick-Choke-Throw or a similar move (heck this Dooku, one of the best swordsmen) instead. He tried to test Anakin out for a brief while but then got owned.

Now, let's continue.

For starters, who ever said Anakin > Dooku in the Force anyways? And plus, it's a different scenario which means different actions. Anakin will not move similar to Obi-Wan given his form, and because of such you cannot just assume he'd tool Anakin that way.

What kind of excuse is this? So because of Anakin's form, he'll stand sideways if Dooku lifted him up for the Choke instead??? Wrong, Dooku could have easily done the same treatment against Anakin. See their positions. Anakin and Obi-Wan both have their lightsabers down on Dooku's while facing him. Dooku could kick Kenobi in the wall next to him. Then he then could have Choked and Threw Skywalker away.

What do you think Anakin can do to block? Do you think while Dooku chokes Anakin, Skywalker somehow kicks Tyrannus's head or what! No, the same scenario would have happened against Anakin.

And yes, Obi-Wan and Anakin are equal in the Force, so this proves that Dooku could have easily done the same treatment to Skywalker. Since you'll want to know how there equal, I'll show how.

When Anakin and Obi-Wan dueled on Mustafar, Anakin kept battering away on Kenobi. You saw how Dooku "lost decades" while fighting against Skywalker, so Obi-Wan must have been exhausted as hell when they reached the Control Room. Here, while entering the saberlock, Obi-Wan and Anakin both Push, and were unable to Push one another back.
In addition, it doesn't matter if it's offensive or defensive. Kenobi is tired as hell, and so the Push strength would be balanced out. Even then, you see Kenobi turning sideways and then pushing his hand out. Anakin has the reflexes to counter this with more strength, but he's unable.

And no Advent, you can't say Dooku couldn't do the same treatment to Anakin. Kenobi can't be defeated in thirteen seconds because of that Kick-Choke-Throw, otherwise I can say Dooku could own Anakin then by that reasoning.

Quit making excuses for the fact that Obi-Wan was owned with "the slightest whipcrack, negligent as a flick of the wrist". Do you understand what that single sentence alone implies regarding Dooku vs. Obi-Wan in the Force? It seems to indicate Dooku is a strong league or two above Obi-Wan in the Force, and that Obi-Wan will be curbstomped in the Force.

Total Exaggeration of Dooku's power. This makes no sense because if Dooku with little energy can own Kenobi, then he should be able to beat Mace in the Force! The ROTS novelization has shown tendencies of exaggerating people's powers. It calls Anakin by something around the lines of "the strongest in the order". However, this is an exaggeration because Yoda > Anakin and since Anakin cannot take on the Emperor but only Yoda and Mace can.

My basic point is that I don't like it how people say Dooku >> Kenobi, when he's NOT! Yes, Dooku could definately win, but he HARDLY pwns. I give Kenobi AT LEAST FORTY SECONDS, because otherwise his power shown doesn't make any sense. Kenobi's Soresu would be hard for Dooku to break against and so he would resort to the Force. Here, after about twenty seconds to forty seconds, he kills Kenobi.

I give Kenobi's life span against Dooku somewhere between:

40 seconds --- 2 Minutes 10 Seconds

Originally posted by Prodigal Knight
Why can't I?

Because you don't have access to their thoughts? Because their thoughts are never displayed? Because the blind assumption you made is less likely to be true than what I laid out in front of you?

Take your pick.

As a matter of fact, every Jedi and Sith are in a state of endangerment whenever they fact. There's always the one percent chance against even simple battle droids that they could get shot in the back while not looking. Dooku always toys around with his opponents he feels are weaker. He doesn't do this against Yoda, but against AOTC Obi-Wan, Asajj, Tholme, he toys around. His arrrogance blinds him, and this prevents him from taking the ROTS duel 100% seriously till the Kick-Choke-Throw.

Except you are assuming incorrectly that Dooku wasn't serious until after he took Obi-Wan out. As apparent in the novelization, Dooku took it seriously once he realized Anakin and Obi-Wan's initial forms (Ataru, Shien) were a ploy. As soon as Obi-Wan switched to Soresu, he decides "no sense taking chances". He reformats his approach to better fit the situation, and seemingly takes the duel 100% seriously.

As well, you fruit, if you would notice - the fact that Dooku had been "spending lavishly his reserve of the Force..." (reference made already, see my previous post) was before he decided to toss Kenobi around like a ragdoll.

Count Dooku had been taking the fight seriously as soon as they switched. As much is deduced, and apparent.

OMG, he did a simple Force Push that knocked Kenobi ten feet away into the Super Battle Droids! Dooku, who is able to do an impressive sequential Kick-Choke-Throw and able to keep up and duel with the likes of Yoda, did at his desperate moment push Obi-Wan away.

[QUOTE]If you realize with Dooku, he doesn't take people seriously right away. He pushed Kenobi so to see if he can massacre own "clown" (Anakin) by himself.

[Lex Luthor] WRONG! [/Lex Luthor]

If you had taken the time to carefully review my post, instead of post your ridiculous assertion, and twisted quotes - you'd realize that he pushed Obi-Wan for one reason and one reason alone. The reason you may ask?

"Dooku found himself having a sudden, unexpected, overpowering, and entirely distressing bad feeling about this...His farce had suddenly, inexplicably, spun from humorous to deadly serious and was tumbling rapidly toward terrifying. Realization burst through Dooku's consciousness like the blossoming fireballs of dying ships outside: this pair of Jedi fools had somehow managed to become entirely dangerous.

These clowns might - just possibly - actually be able to beat him. "

-- Revenge of the Sith novel, Chapter 3.

He pushed Obi-Wan because he felt that the Jedi duo would be able to best him. He did not Force push him to simply see if he could take Anakin. He needed to get rid of Obi-Wan because together they were causing too much of a problem for him. He was in danger, he had to.

By your given quote:
This shows how Dooku is now 100% desperate as hell. That's why when he sees Obi-Wan running at him, he literally does one of his finest (not to mention in all of SW) and most desperate defensive counters: the Kick-Choke-Throw against Kenobi.

Except what you fail to comprehend is that he was desperate before this. He was on the verge of possibly being beaten. So, what are you trying to say? As has been, and obviously will be again for reinforcement - he didn't have the chance nor time to take out Obi-Wan completely.

A Force push was the right tactic to use. You also fail to realize that his goal was to take out Obi-Wan anyways, if he really did have a chance - he would've taken it then. Through logical deduction, it's obvious that if Count Dooku had the time to, he would've done it.

As you can see, the Kick-Choke-Throw is a far more impressive move than a Force Push, which probably signifies the difference in desperation levels.

Hardly. By this logic, anyone who doesn't use their most powerful attack or their "more impressive" display of power, they aren't as desperate. Did it ever occur to you the opening wasn't there? Perhaps the Count couldn't take him out at that moment, perhaps he had to wait for an overhand swing (as that's the move that Obi-Wan used prior).

Or the more likely, and definitely viable reason: he didn't have the time to take out Obi-Wan completely. Go to Blockbuster's, rent Revenge of the Sith, and review the fight. As soon as Count Dooku pushes Obi-Wan, Anakin is right there. How's he going to try a maneuver similar to the one used later on Kenobi?

Short Answer: He's not.

He forced pushed him to break up the fight in which he wouldn't be able to contain had it gone on. After Obi-Wan got up, he decided to take him out for good as he had time (Anakin was laying on the ground for whatever reason). The reason he didn't take Obi-Wan out for good during the RotS with such a "splendid" attack was because he simply didn't have time.

Dooku could have easily done a Kick-Choke-Throw or a similar move (heck this Dooku, one of the best swordsmen) instead. He tried to test Anakin out for a brief while but then got owned.

Actually, he tried to get Obi-Wan the **** out of the fight. The omniscient narrator's dialogue, or rather the free indirect discourse apparently used shows that Tyranus didn't feel he could compete for much longer with them in a sense that they could overwhelm him.

He was trying to test Anakin, as that was his goa, but your reason for why he only Force pushed Kenobi is inaccurate, and is severely flawed given the facts I've already laid down.

Now, let's continue.

What is their to continue? More of your twisted logic? Sure, why not - I suppose I could free a few minutes to deal with this. And please, don't use that line. As, [to me], it seems to imply you've actually accomplished something.

Now, let's continue...

What kind of excuse is this? So because of Anakin's form, he'll stand sideways if Dooku lifted him up for the Choke instead??? Wrong, Dooku could have easily done the same treatment against Anakin. See their positions. Anakin and Obi-Wan both have their lightsabers down on Dooku's while facing him. Dooku could kick Kenobi in the wall next to him. Then he then could have Choked and Threw Skywalker away.

No.

What you've been failing to realize is that if you switch Obi-Wan and Anakin's position (for instance, say Anakin runs up the stairs). It would be a completely different scenario because Anakin's form, and lightsaber skills are dare I say, far superior to Tyranus' own given what was displayed, and the novel's description of the duel. Obi-Wan doesn't have the physical superiority in the sense that Anakin does, he's not a better duelist than Anakin, and so on.

Because of that, you cannot say that Dooku would be even able to pull off a Force maneuver, let alone make sure it lands since he'd be overwhelmed by Anakin's onslaught. The only time Count Dooku would be able to pull that off is when he kicked Anakin. And I wouldn't deny that he possibly couldn't do that, given that I'd say Dooku > Anakin Force-wise. So, the point you're trying to make fails regardless.

And yes, Obi-Wan and Anakin are equal in the Force, so this proves that Dooku could have easily done the same treatment to Skywalker. Since you'll want to know how there equal, I'll show how.

Except I really don't give a shit what you say. When Obi-Wan demonstrates the ability to collapse a building by pure rage, let me know. As well, this is irrelevant. Count Dooku probably could do the same to Anakin, he's likely superior, however, this is unlikely to happen because - as I've been trying to relay to you - Anakin would overwhelm Count Dooku too much as shown.

When Anakin and Obi-Wan dueled on Mustafar, Anakin kept battering away on Kenobi. You saw how Dooku "lost decades" while fighting against Skywalker, so Obi-Wan must have been exhausted as hell when they reached the Control Room.

Obi-Wan is also far younger, and doesn't use the Force to enhance his body to the level Dooku [apparently] does. Obi-Wan also is able to meet Djem So head on, whereas Dooku could not due to his Makashi. Energy levels would probably be expended more because every block would be harder to block. On top of all that, Obi-Wan knows Anakin like the back of his hand. He was more controlled, as well, and levelheaded at the time, contrary to Anakin. He knows Anakin's moves, so it's not as if he'll be grasping at air just to block it (also given the fact his form is made to block).

And you do realize that it didn't take hours to reach the control room. All of...say, one minute - if that?

And no Advent, you can't say Dooku couldn't do the same treatment to Anakin.

Actually, I can. And I believe I already did.

Kenobi can't be defeated in thirteen seconds because of that Kick-Choke-Throw, otherwise I can say Dooku could own Anakin then by that reasoning.

No, you can't. Anakin is capable of completely overwhelming Count Dooku to the point where he's unable to even block, how do you figure he's going to pull some Force maneuver? Out of his ass? Much like the assumptions you're making? If so, Count Dooku is in trouble.

Total Exaggeration of Dooku's power.

No, it's really not.

Feat Wars:

Originally posted by Advent
Dooku is called by narration to be exactly "one of the most respected and powerful Jedi [b]in the Order's twenty-five-thousand-year history", and is stated to be "an even greater Sith" (by narration, and Yoda's dialogue indicates this as well).

Dooku choked out Komari Vosa. There's the fact ROTS Obi-Wan isn't even a match for Dooku's Force power, he was owned at literally the flick of the wrist:

"He gathered the Force once more in a single indrawn breath that summoned power from throughout the universe; the slightest whipcrack of that power, negligent as a flick of his wrist, sent Kenobi flying backward to crash hard against the wall."

Also note that he did this while fending off Anakin. He also did tool Asajj Ventress, who we know is pretty powerful. Not the strongest, but still. And he also - with one finger - brought Ventress down to her knees:

"Her face went pale. Dooku lifted that one finger, and this time he tapped it in the air, as if pushing a needle into a pincushion. Ventress crumpled to her knees. Her voice came out clotted with pain. Dooku made another little patting motion, and Ventress slammed to the tile floor. "

So, we have a flick of the wrist, a tap of the finger, patting motion. "Strong in the Force this one is", eh? From the AOTC novelization, when he puts Anakin out of commission for a time:

"Dooku's hand shot out toward the charging Jedi, sending forth a Force push as solid as any stone wall, and a burst of blue Force lightning. With a wave of his hand, Dooku sent Anakin flying across the room, to crash into a distant wall, where he slumped down, dazed.

He was able to completely revitalize himself using just the Force (ROTS novel), suggesting he doesn't need some dumbass Jedi captives to do it, lol. We know he's obviously a proficient Force lightning user by his displays in AOTC, and other various things. He was able to own Sora Bulq, and knock him out with Force lightning:

Even Yoda comments on his skills:

"Yoda stirred again with his stick. "Then best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force?" He nodded. "Best of all, Dooku would be!"

Calling him the strongest student, and one that has learned the most. We also know Dooku is more powerful than Grievous, who has slain numerous Jedi Masters with ease (Council member as well), Asajj Ventress, and so on. [/b]

You were saying?

Count Dooku has a vast amount of power over the majority of the PT. Obi-Wan included.

This makes no sense because if Dooku with little energy can own Kenobi, then he should be able to beat Mace in the Force!

And where do you come up with even more ridiculous logic? Since when is Obi-Wan anywhere near the level of Mace Windu in the Force?

The only thing that doesn't make sense is the shit you have been spewing. Where does this conclusion come from? Mace > Obi-Wan. And of course, there's still up for debate whether or not Dooku > Mace in the Force anyways; albeit, either way it wouldn't be by a large margin.

The ROTS novelization has shown tendencies of exaggerating people's powers. It calls Anakin by something around the lines of "the strongest in the order".

It calls him the strongest Jedi of his generation. Which he is. It doesn't include Yoda, and more than likely doesn't include Mace.

As well, that line isn't referenced during a fight. It's just describing Anakin. Nearly every novel has, at the least, one line of hyperbole. Just because it says one line doesn't mean you can claim everything is an exaggeration.

Otherwise, the argument you tried to make for Kenobi being "tired as hell" fails given the fact I can - like you - claim it was an aggrandizement of the fight. Double standards, eh?

However, this is an exaggeration because Yoda > Anakin and since Anakin cannot take on the Emperor but only Yoda and Mace can.

Too bad for you that you don't realize he's called the "strongest Jedi of his generation...".

Last time I checked, Sith Lords aren't Jedi. As well, last time I checked, Yoda being 800 plus years old isn't very much Anakin's generation. He dies twenty some years lately for Buddha's sake!

Refer to my above points, also.

My basic point is that I don't like it how people say Dooku >> Kenobi, when he's NOT!

In the Force, yes he is. As a lightsaber duelist, no he's not leagues above Obi-Wan. He's better, though.

Yes, Dooku could definately win, but he HARDLY pwns. I give Kenobi AT LEAST FORTY SECONDS, because otherwise his power shown doesn't make any sense. Kenobi's Soresu would be hard for Dooku to break against and so he would resort to the Force. Here, after about twenty seconds to forty seconds, he kills Kenobi.

Not that that makes any sense. He wouldn't be stuck on Obi-Wan's defense for more than - like you said - twenty seconds to forty seconds (maximum). He'll take all of one or two seconds to kick the ever living shit out of Obi-Wan with the Force.

In the novel, once Dooku realizes Obi-Wan switched to Soresu, and his Ataru stance had been a ploy, he takes immediate action. He doesn't use his most devasting attack because Anakin is right behind him, the time isn't available. What makes you think it's going to take light years for Count Dooku to realize Obi-Wan's defenses are near impenetrable?

I give Kenobi's life span against Dooku somewhere between:

Yes, well no one exactly cares much of what you think. 40 seconds maximum, Obi-Wan gets obliterated with the Force with apparent ease.

Now, if you have nothing new to add to the debate. Quit talking shit, and we'll agree to disagree because I don't have time to continue to break my proverbially balls to debate something as miniscule as this. You can, of course, continue, but it's basically going to be going in circles. As you obviously feel your right for whatever absurd reason.

Plus, this debate is making me seem like an aggressive debater, moreso than I am, but I have no qualms either way (either continue, or not. IDG2S).

mace windu would mop the floor with vaders ass, weather presuit or OT both vaders will go down hard(sorry vader this is a fact)

Whew, well that’s a pretty little post ain’t it Advent. Typical of you, I should have known.

Well since it’s going to go in circles if we continue arguing (because I definitely argue back against your posts, but it’s time-consuming and I am way to busy tonight to even spend fifteen minutes on a single argument), let us at least figure out how long Obi-Wan could last Dooku.

I counted the exact time it took Anakin to kill Dooku, minus their dialogue as well. It took 36 seconds. This duel is accurate because Anakin would block Dooku’s Lightning and then charge into Tyrannus. Now I would say Kenobi would be a minute to kill because he’s not going to be any pushover for Dooku.

Originally posted by Kadesh
mace windu would mop the floor with vaders ass, weather presuit or OT both vaders will go down hard(sorry vader this is a fact)

Hardly in either case. Presuit could prolly win after a long hard fought fight, and Vader has immense knowledge of the force, so he would be no pushover.

Obi-Wan wouldnt last a minute as you keep saying. Prodigal, you say that in ROTS they fought for exactly 36 seconds. I trust this figure is accurate (I cant be bothered going to check). Now this is with Anakin there helping Kenobi, and stopping Dooku delivering any fatal blows or force attacks. Also it is clearly shown that Dooku wasnt participating to his full at the beginning. He didnt use his force powers until the battle got serious. Now, taking this into account it would be logical to assume that Obi-Wan would be taken out before 36 seconds. Not 37 seconds and certainly not a minute.

Vader, he probably Force Grips/Crushes him to death, and I'm sure his Lightsaber skills are past Mace, but no one gives him credit for it

I see what you're saying Ox, but i also see where Prodical is coming from. You said yourself that Ani/OB1 were trying to fake out Dooku together so neither were using their respective forms. Had they been alone, OB1 would have done better, as he did in AOTC. Now add in that he would have gotten stronger by ROTS, he would fair slightly longer. Just because Anakin tooled Dooku(sorry) in 36 seconds alone, doesn't mean Dooku will tool OB1 in 36 sec or less. That's like an A>B>C argument. If he did lightning, OB1 would certainly block it as he did before, and maybe Dooku would resort to using sabers again, where OB1 would hold him off for at least a minute. However....if Dooku chooses to use a different force attack, then Kenobi goes down faster. Either way, Kenobi loses, the amount of time is just dictated by how they battle.

Would you say thats about right, Ox?

Hmmm, I suppose. I just find it hard to see how people think that Obi-Wan will last longer against Dooku than what he did in ROTS. In ROTS the odds were heavily in Obi-Wans favour but he still got pwned in half a minute. Why would an all out fight be any different, this justs means that Dooku will try harder, faster.

But I guess I can sorta, kinda see where you are coming from Prodigal. Either way Dooku wins, time isnt really relevant anyway. 😉

whoa whoa whoa...hold up. How is it stacked in OB1's favor? Its Dooku's ship, he knew they were coming, he had droids with him, he had GG lurking around somewhere which im sure added comfort, he had the terrain advantage, and had enough room to fully indulge in his form. He didnt have to worry about hitting his partner. the only thing OB1 had going for him, was Anakin. He didnt last long cause 1, he wasnt using his perfected form, and 2, i think he may have been relying a little too much on Anakin.

Im saying dooku would pwn him, just maybe not as fast as he did in ROTS. I mean shit, he lasted longer in AOTC.

Obi-wan had Anakin with him - who as we know is far better than Dooku. This also meant that Kenobi wouldnt have to use up as much energy becaue Anakin would be sharing half the work load. Dooku however had to use up more energy to have to compete with them both. Being on Dooku's ship meant little. Dooku having droids with him was almost a non-factor. GG didnt do anything so that is irrelevant. Dooku was also under the false assumption that Sidios would step in if anything went wrong. It looks to me that thing were more in Obi-Wan's favour than Dooku's.

nah, you said yourself he totally revitalized himself. I know that was more for his fight with Anakin, but the fact that he could do that THAT quickly means the energy factor was really no factor. And yes, it only takes one laser from a droid to kill a Jedi. I said the fact that knew GG was there was prolly comforting, didn't say it added to his advantage, but rather may have helped keep him calm. You're still not acknowledging the rest of the points. You're not admitting defeat or anything, just giving one of the top Jedi his dues.

Lol, I hardly even know why we are arguing. I personally think that things were more in Obi-wans favour than in Dooku's but heck, who really cares. The point is Dooku would win with ease. I highly doubt it would take a minute, 30 - 40 seconds max methinks.

oh im not "arguing" at all. Just think that He may last a minute....oh well...i'll be back tomorrow...work is coming in 4 and half hours...

Peace and chicken grease.