Just because Reality is titled in Marvel "Universe" instead of Multi-verse or "Eternity instead of Multi-Eternity, doesn't necessarily mean it's referring to ONE Universe.
Examples:
Roma she inherited the reins of the Multi-verse
Roma Oversees the 616 Multi-verse personally,
Roma says Understanding the Universe is hard enough, but she tends to Eternity (the Multi-verse) YET, she refers to him as Eternity, NOT Multi-Eternity
"Within it, ALL that ever was, ever is or ever will be exists"
Here is another instance, I would post more, but if yall don't get it, then whatever.
This arc was dedicated to the MULTI-VERSE and yet it's called the UNIVERSE at times and just ETERNITY, instead of MULTI-ETERNITY
Here it's called the UNIVERSE:
"Molding the UNIVERSE to suit our dreams"
NOW MULTI-VERSE:
"Comes down to conquering the Universe, well, MULTI-VERSE in my case"
MULTI-VERSE again:
"the single most powerful Entity in ALL the MULTI-VERSE"
NOW ETERNITY, but implying it's the MULTI-VERSE:
"ENTIRE UNIVERSES being born"
"Detonate ETERNITY'S Heart, Re-Birthing everything in ALL the UNIVERSES"
AFTER Dormammu, has succeeded in becoming the New CREATOR of the MULTI-VERSE
"Did he think I would not feel him ENTERING my UNIVERSE"
Now the question is, how do we define what they are referring to when we see these contradictory titles?
Simply by following the entire STORY LINE.
Jim Starlin's whole purpose behind the END series was to out do the Infinity Gauntlet arc,
Now your going to tell me, ol' Jimmy introduced the POWER of TOAA to mess with a single Universe, when Magus and his INCOMPLETE IG was controlling TWO UNIVERSES? (Also WRITTEN by Starlin by the way)
Come on people.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Just because Reality is titled in Marvel "Universe" instead of Multi-verse or "Eternity instead of Multi-Eternity, doesn't necessarily mean it's referring to ONE Universe.Examples:
Roma she inherited the reins of the Multi-verse
Roma Oversees the 616 Multi-verse personally,
Roma says Understanding the Universe is hard enough, but she tends to Eternity (the Multi-verse) YET, she refers to him as Eternity, NOT Multi-Eternity
"Within it, ALL that ever was, ever is or ever will be exists"Here is another instance, I would post more, but if yall don't get it, then whatever.
This arc was dedicated to the MULTI-VERSE and yet it's called the UNIVERSE at times and just ETERNITY, instead of MULTI-ETERNITY
Here it's called the UNIVERSE:
"Molding the UNIVERSE to suit our dreams"
NOW MULTI-VERSE:
"Comes down to conquering the Universe, well, MULTI-VERSE in my case"
MULTI-VERSE again:
"the single most powerful Entity in ALL the MULTI-VERSE"
NOW ETERNITY, but implying it's the MULTI-VERSE:
"ENTIRE UNIVERSES being born"
"Detonate ETERNITY'S Heart, Re-Birthing everything in ALL the UNIVERSES"AFTER Dormammu, has succeeded in becoming the New CREATOR of the MULTI-VERSE
"Did he think I would not feel him ENTERING my UNIVERSE"
Now the question is, how do we define what they are referring to when we see these contradictory titles?
Simply by following the entire STORY LINE.
Jim Starlin's whole purpose behind the END series was to out do the Infinity Gauntlet arc,
Now your going to tell me, ol' Jimmy introduced the POWER of TOAA to mess with a single Universe, when Magus and his INCOMPLETE IG was controlling TWO UNIVERSES? (Also WRITTEN by Starlin by the way)
Come on people.
MM, I don't understand what you mean when you say '616-multiverse'.
AFAIK, 616 is a single universe that is part of many universes that are collectively called the multiverse.
I don't know where you get the idea that Marvel has many multverses...and DC only has one. I seem to remember there was a multiverse in DC before the original 'Crisis', and that multiverse was destroyed, and in the end remained only one universe. Now more recently after 'Infinite Crisis', again there was only one universe...no multiverse.
Marvel of course has many universes, 616, Ultimate, etc, but one multiverse. Unless you're referring to the megaverse...but that doesn't all come under Marvel. Imprints like Malibu are separate, and have copyrighted characters. Ie. In the 'Thanos' series, they weren't allowed to show Rune with the Reality Gem (when Galactus was collecting them) so they did a 'read-between-the-lines' thing by showing a skeleton that was supposed to be Rune, but legally they could not use him.
Originally posted by Lord S
MM, I don't understand what you mean when you say '616-multiverse'.AFAIK, 616 is a single universe that is part of many universes that are collectively called the multiverse.
I don't know where you get the idea that Marvel has many multverses...
The Living Tribunal is the Judge of ALL the Multi-verses:
Marvel has an Omni-verse (an Infinite number of Multi-verses)
This is how it looks from the INSIDE:
The OMNI-VERSE
And
This is how it looks from the OUTSIDE:
And
Every Multi-verse is Infinite and every Universe within every Multi-verse is Infinite aswell:
Hope that cleared that up.
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTUMy God! WHat a mess they have made of the poor ole MU.
Good point ... 🙂
1. If 616 is our point of origin, and we are standing in the middle of 616:
2. Looking outside of 616 at the miriad of other Universes, separate from 616, we see that they all make up a "Multiverse".
3. Looking inside of 616, at the miriad of other Dimensions, Realities and Timelines stemming from, and being tucked in pockets of 616, we see that they all make up a kind of "Reverse Multiverse". A "Miniverse".
If we look at our Universe in this way, as a Miniverse, as a central point from which an infinite number of Pocket Dimensions and Divergant Realities stem, Eternity can be called "Multiversal", but only symbolically.
He is NOT the living Embodiment of ALL UNIVERSES in the Multiverse, of which 616 is only a part.
It's kind of like:
Your house is a Universe.
Your state is a Multiverse.
The United States is an Omniverse.
Standing in your living room, and saying the house is your universe, and all the rooms are possibly other dimensions, realities and timelines.
And, you are Eternity for all of these realms.
But, while you are standing in your living room, looking out the window at all the other houses (Universes), you are NOT Eternity for all of those other houses (Universes).
Originally posted by Horrificus
My God! WHat a mess they have made of the poor ole MU.
No my friends. Enternity was not supposed to be a Multiversal entity. No matter what garbage transformations have occurred. Since the beginning, in comic after comic, Eternity was described as the Living Embodiment of this Universe.
And, no. Universe and Multiverse are not interchangeable. If somebody has made them interchangeable, due to writer's ignorance, it still does not change "Fact". "Universe" and "Multiverse" are not comic book terms. They are used in physics, mathematics, astrophysics and so forth, all over the world.
Just because a writer of a specific storyline does not understand the concept of what he is writing, does not mean that we follow him blindly.
The only way that the desriptions given by Dormammu can be given credence, is if he is speaking relatively to the 616 Universe embodied by Enternity.
And, as I stated in another reply, describing the nature of Dimensions, Realities and Universes, a single Universe can give birth to multiple pocket dimensions, timelines and alternate realities, but they are all offshoots of the main Universe. In this case, 616.
And, although he may have been alluding to these multiple realities connected to 616 as the Multiverse, and therefore, Enternity being a center for THIS PARTICULAR Multiverse, it is still a waxing poetic of the term, "Multiverse". I guess, what would relly be more fitting, would be to call it a "Miniverse", due to the fact that:1. If 616 is our point of origin, and we are standing in the middle of 616:
2. Looking outside of 616 at the miriad of other Universes, separate from 616, we see that they all make up a "Multiverse".
3. Looking inside of 616, at the miriad of other Dimensions, Realities and Timelines stemming from, and being tucked in pockets of 616, we see that they all make up a kind of "Reverse Multiverse". A "Miniverse".
Honestly, no offense but your confusing everyone alot more than any writer with all this jargon.
You tell us not to follow a Marvel Comics Writer blindly, but we should follow you instead. 😉
Ain't gonna happen on this side of town I can assure you that.
This isn't a physics, mathematics, or astrophysics class, this is COMICS we're dealing with.
So, since COMICS are the integral part of our conversations, I think we'll stick to what Marvel and DC dictate instead of your Scientific philosophy. 🙂
Again, no offense.
but let's keep it On Panel shall we.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Honestly, no offense but your confusing everyone alot more than any writer with all this jargon.You tell us not to follow a Marvel Comics Writer blindly, but we should follow you instead. 😉
Ain't gonna happen on this side of town I can assure you that.
This isn't a physics, mathematics, or astrophysics class, this is COMICS we're dealing with.
So, since COMICS are the integral part of our conversations, I think we'll stick to what Marvel and DC dictate instead of your Scientific philosophy. 🙂
Again, no offense.
but let's keep it On Panel shall we.
It's very enlightening, but it's so poorly formatted that you could easily come to the conclusion that it's jargon.
I swear, it took me two-three rereadings to make sense of it, but horrificus has a good point.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Re-read his statement.It's very enlightening, but it's so poorly formatted that you could easily come to the conclusion that it's jargon.
I swear, it took me two-three rereadings to make sense of it, but horrificus has a good point.
His point is inconsequential,
he's trying to make his own rules concerning Marvel,
That will NEVER fly with me, I'm only interested in On Panel statements accompanied by Artistic depictions.
If you want to follow him into that solitary idealism, have fun,
I'll stick to Comics.
Originally posted by Mr Master
His point is inconsequential,he's trying to make his own rules concerning Marvel,
That will NEVER fly with me, I'm only interested in On Panel statements accompanied by Artistic depictions.
If you want to follow him into that solitary idealism, have fun,
I'll stick to Comics.
How was his point inconsequential? You posed a marvel cosmoligy, and he posed another, which he considered to make more sense, and better comply with whats seen.
Originally posted by King Kandy
You're also concerned with editor statements.How was his point inconsequential? You posed a marvel cosmoligy, and he posed another, which he considered to make more sense, and better comply with whats seen.
I'm not going back and forth with you on this meaningless issue,
Like I said, if you want to follow him, do you.
I'll stick to Comics.
Science and Religion do not determine anything in a comic book debate. ❌
That is what some people on these threads do not understand. The comic books alone determine our perceptions and arguments, nothing else.
I love how idiotic it is when certain people refer to Yahweh, TOAA, or Man of Miracles as "God" as if they are talking about their own God, and not objectively about the comic book character. Making statements such as "No one can beat God" or "Yahweh is flawless" , pure religious bias.
Mr. Master you should see how many people were too afraid to respond in my "Lucifer Morningstar VS Jesus Christ" thread. Lucifer battling Jesus from the cancelled mini-series. Realistically, and by feats, Lucifer kicks Jesus' ass to oblivion.
But because of personal biases, people were like " i dont wanna say who wins, cuz I don't wanna go to Hell" It's pathetic how it derails an honest debate.
Liekwise Horrificus, scientific fact has NO PLACE in the comic book forums, so please....The Infinity Gems, HOTU, Spectre, LT, defy science in all ways, and thier existances and feats cannot be backed up by science in anyway.
So why would you try to use science to make an argument in a comic book forum ?
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
[b]Science and Religion do not determine anything in a comic book debate. ❌That is what some people on these threads do not understand. The comic books alone determine our perceptions and arguments, nothing else.
I love how idiotic it is when certain people refer to Yahweh, TOAA, or Man of Miracles as "God" as if they are talking about their own God, and not objectively about the comic book character. Making statements such as "No one can beat God" or "Yahweh is flawless" , pure religious bias.
Mr. Master you should see how many people were too afraid to respond in my "Lucifer Morningstar VS Jesus Christ" thread. Lucifer battling Jesus from the cancelled mini-series. Realistically, and by feats, Lucifer kicks Jesus' ass to oblivion.
But because of personal biases, people were like " i dont wanna say who wins, cuz I don't wanna go to Hell" It's pathetic how it derails an honest debate.
Liekwise Horrificus, scientific fact has NO PLACE in the comic book forums, so please....The Infinity Gems, HOTU, Spectre, LT, defy science in all ways, and thier existances and feats cannot be backed up by science in anyway.
So why would you try to use science to make an argument in a comic book forum ? [/B]
🙄 Perhaps you should show some respect, people obviously have their religions and beliefs and even though its clear your not a believer bear in mind that others on this forum are. And anyone creating a thread with Jesus in it is obviously looking for some controversy and such comments such as "i drink jesus sperm futher add to that conclusion".
The point is, that it isn't MY philosphy. Maybe you (MM) should look into some of the stuff you have these people believing in here.
I was just looking at arguements that are based on OPINIONS and CREATIVE FREEDOMS of some writers, and trying to give some perspective that is based in FACT that might help explain things a bit. I wasn't arguing about properties of comic book artifacts. Just science. If somebody says that NJ is located in the rings of Saturn, I am going to disagree. I am allowed to do that.
If this:
If we look at our Universe in this way, as a Miniverse, as a central point from which an infinite number of Pocket Dimensions and Divergant Realities stem, Eternity can be called "Multiversal", but only symbolically.
He is NOT the living Embodiment of ALL UNIVERSES in the Multiverse, of which 616 is only a part.
It's kind of like:
Your house is a Universe.
Your state is a Multiverse.
The United States is an Omniverse.
Standing in your living room, and saying the house is your universe, and all the rooms are possibly other dimensions, realities and timelines.
And, you are Eternity for all of these realms.
But, while you are standing in your living room, looking out the window at all the other houses (Universes), you are NOT Eternity for all of those other houses (Universes).
... is confusing people, then they deserve to be arguing about this stuff, and looking up to comic book forum jockeys.
No offense.
And, um, yeah, real life fact does have a place in a forum where people are using incorrect facts to prove their points.
If somebody is telling be that 2 plus 2 equals POTATO, I think I should be allowed to say no, it equals 4!
