Originally posted by Mr MasterHulkdog is the one who cracked dem shit though.
Hunkomania, Namortus ans DoomsvaTomorrow I'll be posting Onslaught's feats, I don't have them all cropped, but I will by then.
The cat was a monster.
I know his feats, but has he ever really fully used Mags powers?
I already basically said who wins.
I'm just seeing if your option is viable as a win in this thread?
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
(Btw, nice job master.),
😄
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
We're all arguing over Phoenix and her limits, but what are Onslaught's?
I'll get nasty tomorrow.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
And for that matter, which version are we talking about? Onslaught had varying levels of power, but he was far more creative with his abilities in addition to his sheer power. So there's your other reason as to why he can beat her. Regardless of his power, he is much smarter and more dangerous than her. And that's why Phoenix can't win. Example would be when he showed a vision to Hulk of him killing his teammates and taking Onslaught out. Only his teammates saw him doing that, and Onslaught taunted them with the idea of an endless series of visions and never knowing whether they had killed the real one. Could Phoenix pull that off? I think not. Phoenix never demonstrated cunning and tactics anywhere near that level.
✅
Originally posted by bigbran
Hulkdog is the one who cracked dem shit though.
No doubt, after it was weakened by all three though.
Originally posted by bigbran
I know his feats, but has he ever really fully used Mags powers?
I already basically said who wins.I'm just seeing if your option is viable as a win in this thread?
Yea friend,
he had Mag's and Xavier's powers, Full, he took out Nathanial Richrads with these powers like nothing.
(Nathanial's armor can tap into Franklin's powers) ouch...
I'm telling you bran, this cat was no joke.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Onslaught was defeated by the Hulk, Namor and Doom entering his Energy form, thus making him tangible, (so he could be physically hit) then he was jumped and defeated.
Typo, my bad.
It was actually the Avengers, Fantastic Four, Bruce Banner, Doctor Doom, Namor, and the Scarlet Witch that entered Onslaught's Energy Form.
onslaught wanted the heros to break his shell. Everything the heros did up untell the point they entered him was all according to his plan. If onslaught wanted to he could have slatered them all at he very begining but that was not his goal. His Goal was to become as powerful as possible. Reed states this when hulk broke his shell.
Going by logic Onslaught can win since Xorneto killed Phoenix with an EMP
Onslaught was able to create such a strong EMP that it took out a city
http://img123.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3ik6.jpg
http://img433.imageshack.us/my.php?image=4lx2.jpg
http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=5lp1.jpg
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Originally posted by bigbran
Phoenix isn't really psionic, I mean is she?No matter how many times you show a scan of Phoenix getting owned though, it doesn't compare to Hulk beating your final form...
Also, this is ol' Dark Phoenix.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Anytime friend.
😄
Originally posted by Mr Master
I feel you LU,but honestly, the only thing that counts for me, is what's drawn, and a bio reference will ONLY be considered IF, it co-incides with the on panel evidence.
basically, if it didn't happen on panel, then it didn't happen.
but that's me, and by no means am I trying to force that style on anyone.
That's fine. On panel evidense is always more extensive and clear than a mere bio, but when a bio is written by a comic book writer, you can't claim it invalid.
However, since bios usually contradict the story archs, and even other bios, I can see how they are not entirely reliable.
Originally posted by Mr Master
This is a good example,this never happened on panel, so imo, it's inconsequential.
Which is why I dropped it.
Originally posted by Mr Master
I agree, there's contradictions, I wouldn't say ALL the time though.Phoenix, since BEFORE DP came into the picture has never been too impressive.
In fact, on her own, the greatest feat ever performed by the Phoenix was eating a Sun.
True. But you also forgot interstellar travel within seconds (rivalling Silver Surfer's capabilities), and being perfectly fine after having a star explode right in her face.
Originally posted by Mr Master
I agree,well taking out Nate Grey was pretty badass too.
No Doubt, No Doubt
Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually without PIS, a Franklin Richards amped Onsalught oughta be able to create pocket Universes.
Without PIS, Pheonix would have not been able to destroy herself with a Shair gun, considering that a super nova did nothing to her before.
Originally posted by Mr Master
What do you think would happen to Phoenix if a pocket Universe imploded on top of her?
The same that would happen if a Sun exploded on Onslaught.....they'd both probably be toast.
Originally posted by Mr Master
It would destroy his armor, releasing his Energy Form which is even more powerful still.And btw, it was Namor, Hulk and Doom together that opened his armor.
And another thing, that same trick they pulled wouldn't work in a Phoenix ALONE versus Onslaught battle, who's going to enter his Energy Form to make him tangible?
Phoenix is on her own in this one.
Pheonix can probably sacrafice an avatar if necessary, but I doubt she would have to use that method. Dark Pheonix is way more powerful than anyone who fought Onslaught one on one.
I know Nate Grey is bad ass, but what has he done that compares him to Dark Pheonix ?
Originally posted by Mr Master
Nah,no PIS needed to be yelled, because Phoenix has no help, so no one can enter his Energy Form, (that's what made it PIS in the arc)
She doesn't need help. If you want a battle with NO PIS, then the lack of PIS has to be done on both sides.
If you want to discount the cheesy way they beat Onslaught (which logically shouldn't have worked), then you also have to discount Dark Pheonix being obliterated by a Shiar Weapon, or Pheonix Force being impaled with a laser beam.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Woh there friend,with all due respect I never said it didn't happen, I said it was PIS.
And like I said already, that PIS can not be repeated if Phoenix is fighting him alone.
Didn't mean to come off as disrespectful, but like I said the lack of PIS must be done on both accounts.
Originally posted by Mr Master
How so?Phoenix can't create life on the spot to enter Onslaught's form, she's gonna have to fight for the win.
And when considering Onslaught's cleverness and intelligence mixed with his power, it will be nasty for both parties.
I agree with this completely. Onslaught is intelligent and cunning , while Dark Pheonix is arrogant and impulsive.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Well, this is where it gets foggy,Because Phoenix has never created anything even close to a planetary scale on panel.
True, but I honestly think she was too powerful to use against the X-Men as a villian, since realistically no one had a chance at defeating her at the time the story was written.
They had to limit her to make the reality of the X-Men's survival more believable (having Jean Grey switch conciousness back and forth was a decent touch)
I think after having her eat a star and make it super nova, they couldn't keep having her do rediculous feats, because then her defeat would have been more unbeleivable than Onslaught's.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Bottom line:I would say Phoenix takes a normal Onsalught with a fight (Xavier and Magneto)
Phoenix loses horribly to an amped up Onslaught (Nate and Franklin or just Franklin alone)
I'll leave it at this, since I am rather ignorant of Franklyn Richards and Nate Grey alone, however, considering Onslaught had consumed thier forms, he should have been a lot more powerful than his series displayed.
Originally posted by StarhawkThe question, my young friend, was not if he had the power, (or the potential to reach that level), but whether or not he had the ability to properly wield that type of power, at that particular time. But what's more important is that he didn't even get the chance to use it, as he was pretty much blindsided by Onslaught when he was captured, so how can you use that as a feat for Onslaught against Nate?
I know allot has happened since I was last on, but someone was questioning the validity of Moira's statement about Nate Grey.1) I think Moira being one of the 3 top mutant experts in the world would know powers and levels of powers well enough to judge.
2) She was using Dark Phoenix as a comparison to his power to give the X-Men some idea of just how strong Nate was. He may be even more powerful then Phoenix. She was just saying he is atleast that strong so that the X-men would have some frame of refference.
Your A-B-C logic is ridiculous and holds no water because A) Nate didn't get the chance to fight back, and B) it was unclear whether or not he was capable of using the type of power he was blessed with, to its fullest potential. Kind of stupid for you to say Onlsaught 'took him out' when there wasn't even a fight.
Dark Phoenix was proven to be a universal threat...or at least a galactic-level threat. Onslaught on his own, (without Franklin's power), barely got past the X-Men in their initial battle when they were fighting on the X-grounds...and he's a universal threat? Come on...
Actually, in their inital fight the X-men could do nothing to him, he decimated them.
And Onslaught absorbed nate and there was nothing Nate could do to stop it.
Nate could possibly be even more powerful then the phoenix, Moira used the phoenix as a comparassion to his power cause it was the highest the X-men had on record. She was trying to give them an idea of the danger he posed.
Onslaught couldn't actually be destoryed, they just split him out amoung the Avengers and Fantastic Four.
Onslaught even stated he could give the phoenix power to Jean and take it away.
well said Lord Urizen!!
i would hedg a bet that every time the phoenix has been defeated its becaus of pis. i meen whos guna beat the big bang in bird form with out pis?
MR.M
one of your arguments is that the phoenix can not create life , there for once onslaught is in energy for she wont be able to do any thing to him. but the first feat the force did in comics was to create a new jean gray body to in habit with memorys soul and all.
in her power description it clearly states she can "create life"
"Potentially limitless control over cosmic and psionic energies, Reality manipulation, the ability to tap into energies reserved for the future at the expense of future life, can raise the dead as well as create life, can amplify powers to incalculable levels, fly in the vacuum of space without protection."
so its on panel and in bio.
do u agree that u are wrong on that ?
now even if she did not beat him that way she could most likly absorb or controle him seing as how he is psi energy and she is the living embodyment of all psi energy.
"Phoenix Force is a child of the universe. It is the nexus of ALL psionic energy which does, has, and ever will exist in all realities of the omniverse,
Originally posted by xjustice69x
i meen whos guna beat the big bang in bird form with out pis?
😆
Show me ONE scan of Phoenix, Destroying, Remaking or Creating a Universe.
If you don't have one, tell me what issue it's in, and I'll post it for you to prove myself wrong.
I have practically ALL of her appearances scanned.
pointandlaugh Big Bang
Originally posted by xjustice69x
MR.M
one of your arguments is that the phoenix can not create life , there for once onslaught is in energy for she wont be able to do any thing to him. but the first feat the force did in comics was to create a new jean gray body to in habit with memorys soul and all.
The Phoenix Force's first feat was projecting the Excalibur Tower across the Multi-verse VIA the INTERFACE Alingment.
As for that other feat your talking about,
Phoenix created a single body and imbued itself within it.
You call that life?
Where are you getting Phoenix created a Soul?
Originally posted by xjustice69x
in her power description it clearly states she can "create life"
"Potentially limitless control over cosmic and psionic energies, Reality manipulation, the ability to tap into energies reserved for the future at the expense of future life, can raise the dead as well as create life, can amplify powers to incalculable levels, fly in the vacuum of space without protection."so its on panel and in bio.
Yada yada yi,
All that is an exaggeration with the exception of, "fly in the vacuum of space without protection"
On Panel Phoenix has NEVER created Life, or Souls,
Phoenix has NEVER been depicted with "limitless control over Cosmic or psionic energies"... so the term "Potentially" was justly included in your statement.
Galactus can "Potentially" absorb the Multi-verse, am I going to put Galactus at a Multi-versal level, uhh, No.
"Raise the dead?" ... That's a funny one,
Phoenix NEEDED the White Hot Room just to Alter a Timeline (in order to rid the Future of the Events of Here Comes Tomorrow)
"can amplify powers to incalculable levels"
Yea, it takes incalculable levels of Power to destroy a sinlge Star, 😂
Originally posted by xjustice69x
do u agree that u are wrong on that ?
I do not agree.
But I do agree that you need to Read more issues concerning the Phoenix before giving anyone a second hand bio lecture that is obviously flawed.
Originally posted by xjustice69x
now even if she did not beat him that way she could most likly absorb or controle him seing as how he is psi energy and she is the living embodyment of all psi energy.
Not in Comic Books.
Originally posted by xjustice69x
"Phoenix Force is a child of the universe. It is the nexus of ALL psionic energy which does, has, and ever will exist in all realities of the omniverse,
An exact quote from wiki, how creative.
Phoenix has NEVER even affected a SINGLE Universe, and now you have her on an Omniversal level. dontgetit
Originally posted by starlock
there he is again mr master hehehehehehehehehe
you cant even address the points brung up so you double talk how dull,she creates a body to inhabit and you say huh is that life what a joke
how creative HAHAHAHAHAHAH
who are you to lecture you try to be an expert but you are so bad its really a pity
When Mister Master means life he means create life from nothingness to..life !
All she did was copy a pre-existing shell (Herself) then simply dumped her mind in it when her body did a bye-bye.
Originally posted by StarhawkHe just barely beat them, as they were knocking him around for a while.
Actually, in their inital fight the X-men could do nothing to him, he decimated them.
And Onslaught absorbed nate and there was nothing Nate could do to stop it.You conveniently forget that Onslaught was in possession of Franklin Richards at the time, as well. That makes a HUGE difference.
Originally posted by grey fox
When Mister Master means life he means create life from nothingness to..life !All she did was copy a pre-existing shell (Herself) then simply dumped her mind in it when her body did a bye-bye.
Thank you fox,
was that really that diffucult to compute for that newb?
jeez, what's happening to kmc? 😕
Originally posted by Lord S
He just barely beat them, as they were knocking him around for a while.You conveniently forget that Onslaught was in possession of Franklin Richards at the time, as well. That makes a HUGE difference.
Re-read X-men: Onsalught, At NO time was he anywhere NEAR defeat. He toyed with them allot but that was it.
