Dark Phoenix vs Onslaught.

Started by Mr Master6 pages
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
But you also forgot interstellar travel within seconds (rivalling Silver Surfer's capabilities), and being perfectly fine after having a star explode right in her face.

Don't get me wrong, Phoenix is a powerhouse,

I just have to set the record straight when I see fanboys or innocents exaulting her status to equaling the Living Tribunal (which I'm sure you agree is a joke)

Or making her a Multiversal destroyer or even a Universal one, when Phoenix has never even come close to such heights.

ALL the Phoenix Avatars can Repair Universes, that's their function/purpose in the Cosmic Scheme, but Offensively or Defensively they're not all that:

Example:

Here's Giraud, a Phoenix Avatar Healing Eternity:

Now here's that same Universal Healer getting whooped by Dormammu:

Dormammu HANDLING Giraud (Phoenix Avatar)

Dormammu still HANDLING Giraud (Phoenix Avatar) and the Entire Team at the same time

Giraud (Phoenix Avatar) and the Entire Team, stay HANDLED

Now Dormammu is nasty, but he shouldn't be smacking a Universal power around like nothing, expecially when that Universal power has back up.

Just goes to show...

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Without PIS, Pheonix would have not been able to destroy herself with a Shair gun, considering that a super nova did nothing to her before.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
The same that would happen if a Sun exploded on Onslaught.....they'd both probably be toast.

I don't know about that,

Onslaught was untouchable in his Energy Form

And remember, the heroes defeated Onslaught by charging into his Energy Form, (ONLY Non-Mutants) while Franklin was protecting the Heroes inside, this weakened him and made him tangible, thus becoming susceptible to harm by ALL the X-Men that were outside.

And btw, Onslaught can automatically absorb the power of any Mutant just by touching them or they touching him:

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Pheonix can probably sacrafice an avatar if necessary, but I doubt she would have to use that method. Dark Pheonix is way more powerful than anyone who fought Onslaught one on one.

Well to begin with, she would need many more than one, it took The Avengers, the Fantastic Four, Doctor Doom, Namor, the Scarlet Witch and even Bruce Banner.

Then all the X-Men attacked him as one.

And no one was able to handle Onslaught one on one.

And I also have to disagree that DP is way more powerful than Franky or Nate.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I know Nate Grey is bad ass, but what has he done that compares him to Dark Pheonix ?

Nate is basically an enhanced Frankin Richards, because he's older and more experienced.

And Franky can craete pocket Universes at will.

That's how the heroes were saved in the end when Onslaught was dissipated, he created a dimension the size of a Spaldin Ball, and placed the Heroes in it.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
She doesn't need help. If you want a battle with NO PIS, then the lack of PIS has to be done on both sides.

If you want to discount the cheesy way they beat Onslaught (which logically shouldn't have worked), then you also have to discount Dark Pheonix being obliterated by a Shiar Weapon, or Pheonix Force being impaled with a laser beam.

Fine,

the difference is that Phoenix does not have at her disposal the tactics that were used to defeat Onslaught.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
True, but I honestly think she was too powerful to use against the X-Men as a villian, since realistically no one had a chance at defeating her at the time the story was written.

They had to limit her to make the reality of the X-Men's survival more believable (having Jean Grey switch conciousness back and forth was a decent touch)

And that's the problem, you hit the head right on,

if X-Men writers wouldn't be so attached to Phoenix by not sharing her with other writers there would be more to say for her, but that clutch they got on her has come back to bite them where it hurts.

What did they do when they had her fight another being of significance?

She goes and picks on a HUNGRY Galactus for no reason.

"I have NEED of SUSTENANCE"

Nice try over at the Phoenix camp.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I think after having her eat a star and make it super nova, they couldn't keep having her do rediculous feats, because then her defeat would have been more unbeleivable than Onslaught's.

That's not really out of this World in Comics,

Gladiator contained a near super nova.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I'll leave it at this, since I am rather ignorant of Franklyn Richards and Nate Grey alone, however, considering Onslaught had consumed thier forms, he should have been a lot more powerful than his series displayed.

Fair enough.

Mr Master your posts seem excellent but little you are saying seems to be new. This illadelph guy says someone else says many of the same things.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=398638&perpage=20&highlight=Stay+Whirly&pagenumber=6

Originally posted by Marius_twa@t
Mr Master your posts seem excellent but little you are saying seems to be new. This illadelph guy says someone else says many of the same things.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=398638&perpage=20&highlight=Stay+Whirly&pagenumber=6

Your going to have to elaborate,

I visited that link, but I have no idea what it means.

Who is someone else?

phoenix is on the power level of Galactus. Do you think Onslaught is on the level with Galactus? mr. M I know Onslaught is a beast in fact the only reason he was defeated at all was because he didn't think the heros would kill themselves to stop him. Everything up to that point was all a part of his plan. But being as powerful as phoenix I don't know.

Onslaught offered to restore Jean's connection to the Phoenix Force. And that suggests he has influance over it. Hence more powerfull.

Originally posted by Starhawk
Re-read X-men: Onsalught, At NO time was he anywhere NEAR defeat. He toyed with them allot but that was it.
I didn't say he was near defeat...all I am saying is that it wasn't the curbstomb you make it out to be.

Yes it was, he was playing with them, letting them think they had a chance and then he kicked their asses.

Originally posted by jasofisc
phoenix is on the power level of Galactus. Do you think Onslaught is on the level with Galactus? mr. M I know Onslaught is a beast in fact the only reason he was defeated at all was because he didn't think the heros would kill themselves to stop him. Everything up to that point was all a part of his plan. But being as powerful as phoenix I don't know.

Normal Onslaught is basically a mix of Xavier and Magneto amped.

This version of Onslaught did show some kind of dominance over the connection of Phoenix and Jean.

There was never a full blown battle between them, but the edge leans towards Onslaught, but I wouldn't say 100%.

Now Onslaught amped by Franky alone in addition to his normal enhancement, should defeat Phoenix quite easily, throw Nate into the mix, it should be overkill.

Well, I'm kinda new at this, but I remember seeing a scan of Dark Phoenix destroying a Universe. It didn't take place in the 616, so I'm not sure if it's canon or not.

I also remember reading that Dark Phoenix was calculated to be on the same level as Galactus, and a bigger threat (though this does not mean she was more powerful). Does it stand or was it retconned?