Marvel Universe: THE END Discussion Thread

Originally posted by leonidas
i'll not get back into THAT old debate. you think somehow that the 'barren region' of space magus claimed as his own was outside the 616. i absolutely do not. so to you he was outside the universe. to me he was not. this is not the place to rehash that old classic.

meh, let's let the Onlookers decide:

What did this to Mighty Eternity?...................................Magus with

From where?........many Realities away

Many Realities away...

Doom&Kang find Magus's stronghold after what?

Breaking Through to the Desired Reality.

Thanos tells Magus...

It is what brought me to this "Forsaken Corner of the Plane...To Safeguard the Sanctity of my Own Reality"

Warlock here says..

"For The Sake of this Universe....This Fragile Reality (he's referring to the same Universe) once again needed saving"

Galactus and others traveling...

"In a TIME and PLACE that is Neither"...

Where do they End Up?....

"In a Reality MANY steps removed from Our Own"

Silver Surfer...

"We must Return to Our Reality"

Here Galactus sends Thor back to our universe

Originally posted by leonidas
what if . . .? 😕 anyway, i'll check out the issue, but as a what if, it's not relevent anyway . . .

Since when are What If's irrelevant?

They may be the cornerstone of PIS, but they certainly aren't irrelevent.

Originally posted by leonidas
btw, it looks like the earth was left at the end even after eternity headed out of town. is that what happened? how could it have if that earth was part of eternity?

The Humans became ONE with the Planet Earth, and made a stasis field around it, protecting it from the Universal implosion that took place.

There it satyed, hovering and self sustained by the evolved Humans.

Originally posted by leonidas
they are OUTSIDE eternity/the universe. how ELSE could they envision the universe UNLESS it were an m-body? the universe is boundless, the m-body is defined and physical. the purpose of the m-body is to allow a physical being to see and interact with the abstract. it REPRESENTS the abstract and it's representation can vary. that does not mean that it is the entirety of the abstract. i've tried to explain this a couple times. fine by me if you disagree.

So your ignoring and dismissing the FACT that Entropy exploded into a Universe, and this Universe WAS ETERNITY the M-body?

Are the Fractals that quick,

that they managed to build an M-body without Eternity even visiting the Fractals? 😕

Originally posted by Mr Master
meh, let's let the Onlookers decide:

What did this to Mighty Eternity?...................................Magus with

From where?........many Realities away

Many Realities away...

Doom&Kang find Magus's stronghold after what?

Breaking Through to the Desired Reality.

Thanos tells Magus...

It is what brought me to this "Forsaken Corner of the Plane...To Safeguard the Sanctity of my Own Reality"

Warlock here says..

"For The Sake of this Universe....This Fragile Reality (he's referring to the same Universe) once again needed saving"

Galactus and others traveling...

"In a TIME and PLACE that is Neither"...

Where do they End Up?....

"In a Reality MANY steps removed from Our Own"

Silver Surfer...

"We must Return to Our Reality"

Here Galactus sends Thor back to our universe

Originally posted by leonidas
i suspect you know it was in the handbook on ahkenaten. but you also know i tend to follow most of what is in the official books -- at least i don't dismiss what they say. if marvel believes it was 4321, that's fine by me.

You know how I feel about this,

if it DIDN'T happen On Panel,

then it DIDN'T HAPPEN AT ALL.

Originally posted by leonidas
and the timeline could EASILY have diverged with the coming of akenaten. up until then the universes could have been exact duplicates.

First time I here of exact duplicate Universes, sharing the exact same Histories.

If this is isn't backed up by On Panel evidnce, it shouldn't even be mentoned, lest it confuses any further already confused individuals.

Originally posted by leonidas
i also never saw multi-eternity struggling against him

I never saw Multi-Eternity struggle against Abraxas, although Abraxas was collapsing his ass.

Originally posted by leonidas
OR saw multi-eternity absorbed.

Yet, you've shown no proof of just a Universe being absorbed either.

But we ALL SAW Eternity/Infinity (a Universe) being absorbed before the rest of Space went down too:

Originally posted by leonidas
seems you're saying the multiverse or a universe can be absorbed or destroyed while SOMETIMES showing the m-body being destroyed, but at other times, it doesn't matter if we see the m-body being destroyed. that seems like picking and choosing to me and choosing whatever outcome best fits your postulation. kinda like saying sometimes the m-body DOES represent the universe/multiverse, sometimes it doesn't. if a postulation is that open-ended, it's rather easy to defend . . .

Only seems like I'm picking and choosing cause your thinking for me.

Eternity and Infinity, the UNIVERSE were absorbed, then Thanos transitioned his absorption to the Multi-verse in one seamless flow.

There was NEVER a chance for a Multi-versal M-body to appear.

Originally posted by leonidas
to me it's easier to say an incomplete m-body was destroyed, followed by the consciousness of the universe.

Unfortunately you have absolutely NO proof, that there is such a thing as "Incomplete M-bodys"

What we DO have PROOF of, is that Eternity's M-body IS indeed the CONSCIOUSNESS/SPIRIT of the UNIVERSE:

"Since there's nothing to be done for this zoned-out MANIFESTATION of Eternity"

"Avengers are about to launch an assault on the Cosmic Muckamuck they figure DID THIS to the TEMPORAL SPIRIT of the UNIVERSE HERE"

Originally posted by leonidas
you've seen multiple m-bodies existing at once (lt, eternity and death in particular)

The Living Tribunal EXISTS SIMULTANEOUSLY in ALL Multiverses:

SO you can continue to claim WITHOUT a shred of Evidence that LT has M-bodys, but your not convincing anyone until you bring up an issue where that is stated.

ONLY TWO M-bodys of Eternity were shown in Quasar#37, ("simultaneously"😉

one was from the PAST, of a Warlock's TRIAL from Warlock & the Infinity Watch #1, which took place in February of 92'..

and one of the PRESENT, of Eternity Comatose, which took place in accordance with Quasar #37, in June of 92'.

But why you continue to struggle to mesh the two is beyond me.

The Eternity M-body with the Beyonder is from a separate issue, so it's inconsequential, and we still don't even know from WHAT Comic that is taking place, if from any at all.

Originally posted by leonidas
as well as hearing qusar's own thoughts on the death of anomaly and its m-body.

You mean his SPECULATION.

Originally posted by leonidas
you saw q ask the m-body of eternity if it knew where the essence of it was.

I also saw him FIND that "M-body of Eternity where the essence of it was":

"Since there's nothing to be done for this zoned-out MANIFESTATION of Eternity"

"Avengers are about to launch an assault on the Cosmic Muckamuck they figure DID THIS to the TEMPORAL SPIRIT of the UNIVERSE HERE"

It's an M-BODY, like I been saying from the very start.

Originally posted by leonidas
it's even said that the manifesters ARE the m-body not the abstract themselves (though some 'energy transfer' tales place . . .)

It NEVER said HOW MUCH Energy is being transfered,

"We have a SYMBIOTIC RELATIONSHIP with the Abstract Beings, an EXCHANGE of ENERGIES that you physicals would not comprehend"

SO how you figure "some"?

Why not ALL?

Originally posted by leonidas
frankly, i'm not sure how much more proof I can show.

Besides the Anomaly being choked out by Maelstrom,

I'm still waiting.

Originally posted by bigbran
Wait, when did the HOTU being canon, have to do with the IG?

Wait, why don't you read our entire debate, so you can know how it ties in.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Wait, why don't you read our entire debate, so you can know how it ties in.

Originally posted by Mr Master
How many M-bodys did we see of the Anomaly, (the M-body that 'almost killed' Quasar)?

Exactly, ONE!

1. Which could have easily been "the MOST RECENTLY Manifested Aspect" of the Anomaly (just like the Comatose Eternity m-body)

2. Which could have easily been the "Aspect that is of RIGHT VINTAGE" (just like the Comatose Eternity m-body)

3. Which could have easily been the Aspect that "Corresponds to something that's going on in the UNIVERSE NOW" (just like the Comatose Eternity m-body)

DO you have PROOF of OTHER M-bodys of the Anomaly that were there?

I think not.

The Beyonder with the Eternity M-body was from a DIFFERENT issue, (you have NO idea WHERE or WHEN that is taking place)

again, i don't get what you're saying. that meeting took place during secret wars 2. in the dimension of m all the manifestations are existing at the same time. seriously, i don't get why you don't see it.

and I already PROVED that Warlock's TRIAL took place WAYYYY before Eternity was Comatose by Magus.

i denied this somewhere . . .?

SO it is IMPOSSIBLE, for that to be all happening in sequence.

no it's not because time has no meaning where they are.

Again, Quasar interrupted a TRIAL that had ALREADY taken place, so if the Writers of Quasar #37 decided to throw that in to give some kind of substance to their "M-body" story, they made a big woo woo ... in other words,

(made a mistake, put their foot in their mouths, saturated the story line beyond belief, information overload, etc, etc...)

because it's a contradiction of CONTINUITY.

characters go back in time a lot and change continuity. why couldn't continuity have been changed in this case retroactively? the scene has never been revisited, so we have no way to know for sure.

Now your saying that because I showed you Quasar saying it, but YOUR first reply was this:

"clearly the m-body is an INCOMPLETE eternity as it does NOT house the spiritual essence of eternity"

correct, but i said also said the power of an m-body could vary. if someone is standing outside the universe and wants to talk to eternity, THAT m-body may well encompass the whole universe. i said not all m-bodies are the same. an m-body existing WITHIN the universe cannot (it's IMPOSSIBLE to use your earlier term) for it to encompass the whole universe when it exists WITHIN the universe.

the REAL eternity does not exist within ANY m-body. that's what i've been saying. the spiritual consciousness does NOT reside within the m-body"

😕 umm, that's exactly what i've been saying all along. you said the m-body encompasses the whole universe -- if it encompasses the whole universe then . . . why wouldn't that include the 'spirit'?

Now your saying the "m-body was comatose because the ACTUAL SPIRIT was placed in a coma"

the 'spirit' was bound, as such it could not affect the m-body.

So show me where On Panel does it SHOWS Magus EVER putting the "the SPIRIT of (the so-called) M-body being placed in a Coma"?

the 'spirit' was bound put struggling. spirit: active attempting to escape magus's binding. m-body: inert. the m-body is meaningless and incomplete. the spirit or essence is key.

Eagerly awaiting to see this SCAN of "the SPIRIT of (the so-called) M-body being placed in a Coma" by Magus.

the 'spirit' was bound by magus.

That wasn't YOUR take before though, yesterday you said:

my take has never changed. the m-body represents the abstract, but it is an incomplete representation. essentially it IS the concept, but the body is meaningless (depending on what the abstract wills, of course). a destroyed m-body does not necessarily destroy the concept.

And you shouldn't either according to your own scan:

when death DOES come back its in a new m-body. strange beat the first, but that win is meaningless of course, because death can instantly recreate a new m-body.

A bunch of left over "Reflections" of Deaths.

SO that point is inconsequential.

you can continue to believe they are meaningless. your perogative.

1. Who Anomaly, acting independent?

he chased off Quasar from interrupting a moment that has a worse case of RE-RUNS than Happy Days in the Family Channel.

he was sent against q because lt noticed quasar. that action, even his words, are independent of the situation we HAD seen in the past. if they were simple reflections, quasar could NOT have interfered. they were not just 'replays' of past events.

2. Who Infinity?

a painting that didn't MOVE or TALK once.

she couldn't -- she too was bound along with eternity by magus. she either couldn't manifest an m-body or that infinity q saw was also in a coma. not sure which as it was never really defined.

3. Who the multiple Deaths?

cheapest imitation of a haunted house room if I ever saw one, (again, they did NOTHING)

so none of them were really death? they ALL were.

4. Or the obscure Beyonder involvement, which is my belief was monkey wrenched into the mix just to give the story more substance.

you keep talking about errors in the story. my explanation easily accounts for all these 'errors'.

Sure, just like Multi-Eternity resisted Abraxas, who wasn't HALF the THREAT Thanos posed.

After LT getting absorbed effortlessly, what the heck was Multi-Eternity going to do?

eternity and infinity resisted almost as long as lt did. lt should have lasted a lot longer. my explanation: the lt m-body was more powerful than eternity but not by all that much. multi-eternity would be a great deal more powerful and seemingly should have/could have resisted. abraxas was like multi's kryptonite, its drax. even singlular eternity resisted thanos.

Well, if ALL you have is Anomaly getting choked out by Maelstrom as the evidence for that, I must disagree.

no worries. malestrom DID assume its role though and commited the m-body to oblivion.

There's WAYYYY to many instances where Eternity's M-body is the Universe,

again, your perogative.

Come on....

your trying to force method on that madness.

What this says is that EVERY event that has ever taken place continuously repeats itself for ALL Eternity, UNTIL Quasar or some other hobo decides to crash land the party to change the event.

That's ridiculous and straight up PIS.

i'm just trying to explain what i've seen. you asked about it, now that i've answered your query you are calling pis. lt and eternity are said to exist in all times and places. perhap this is how they do so. i don't mean to torture you, but it really does make sense to me. 😬

Originally posted by bigbran
I seen M-bodies, and stuff, but I still don't see how it equals The End being canon.

Real debates emcompass many realms in order to reach a complete understanding.

Leon is an expert debater, and I won't tute my own horn but I know I put effort into the reasoning of my arguments with as much proof as possible.

This leads to a discussion that broadens as the posts flow on.

Simply put,

in order for us to reach the center of opportunity in definiteness, we have to first pass through the circumference of time.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Ok,

I just posted PROOF, that the Living Tribunal's Realm is the Dimension of Manifestation,

"the DIMENSION of MANIFESTATION ... the REALM of the LIVING TRIBUNAL"

if the lt exists in every universe at the same time, why wouldn't there be a d of m in each universe? how do you come to the conclusion that just because it is said to be lt's realm that it is the only one in the . . . multiverse? omniverse? lt can only have one realm? seems like one realm for THIS universe's manifestation of lt explains things nicely.

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with Scale of Power, NOTHING!

Quasar does ask that question, but Quasar is referring to the FORM, not it's Power.

how do you know it has nothing to do with scale of power? the form can vary. why would that be limited to simply shape?

meh, i sense circles growing . . .

Originally posted by Mr Master
Since when are What If's irrelevant?

They may be the cornerstone of PIS, but they certainly aren't irrelevent.

to debates? they have ALWAYS been irrelevent because the portrayal of characters are . . . not very good. unless you really DO think lt's supreme judgement is a supernova . . .?

The Humans became ONE with the Planet Earth, and made a stasis field around it, protecting it from the Universal implosion that took place.

There it satyed, hovering and self sustained by the evolved Humans.

they essentially created their own universe and seperated from eternity. okay.

So your ignoring and dismissing the FACT that Entropy exploded into a Universe, and this Universe WAS ETERNITY the M-body?

dismissing? how am i dismissing?

Are the Fractals that quick,

that they managed to build an M-body without Eternity even visiting the Fractals? 😕

maybe . . . or i could call pis . . . of course their WAS the explosion. could have happened during that time i suppose. that's REALLY forcing order on events that are not MEANT to be ordered. the real reason is of course the writers wanted to SHOW the universe was made. showing an m-body of the universe is a lot cooler than showing them in front of a space-scape. fact remains, it was an m-body, and they come from the d of m.

Originally posted by Mr Master
You know how I feel about this,

if it DIDN'T happen On Panel,

then it DIDN'T HAPPEN AT ALL.

no problem. 🙂

First time I here of exact duplicate Universes, sharing the exact same Histories.

If this is isn't backed up by On Panel evidnce, it shouldn't even be mentoned, lest it confuses any further already confused individuals.

exact duplicates happen all the time. that's what every what if book is. a duplicate of 616 that becomes its own universe when an event is changed. 4321 would have been an exact duplicate of 616 (would in fact have BEEN 616) until it diverged and became its own universe. until the divergence, the histories and everything were exactly the same.

I never saw Multi-Eternity struggle against Abraxas, although Abraxas was collapsing his ass.

he couldn't have battled abraxas -- not because of a power issue but because of what ab was.

Yet, you've shown no proof of just a Universe being absorbed either.

But we ALL SAW Eternity/Infinity (a Universe) being absorbed before the rest of Space went down too

the reasons for this scene are the heart of the debate. 🙂 you say there were still stars because he absorbed so fast no void could have existed and he wiped out the multiverse. i say he absorbed m-bodies and continued to absorb beyond the m-body to the universe itself. technically, you've shown no proof that a multiverse was absorbed. your opinion goes against all off-panel explanations by writers and handbooks and even makes atleza the anchor of the multiverse. my explanation fits in quite nicely with all those things.

Eternity and Infinity, the UNIVERSE were absorbed, then Thanos transitioned his absorption to the Multi-verse in one seamless flow.

There was NEVER a chance for a Multi-versal M-body to appear.

starlin could have made the event crystal clear had he showed multi being absorbed. you're speculating again. and again, that's fine. just that you haven't really proven anything any more than i have. your thoughts fit your pre-conceived ideas, mine fit with what has been accepted and put out by marvel (though i concede what they put out is not always correct).

The Living Tribunal EXISTS SIMULTANEOUSLY in ALL Multiverses

you were very quick to call out errors and pis in some of the scans and things i showed but when overwhelming evidence points to this being an error you stick with it? or perhaps it IS correct, and kubick is simply referencing each singular eternity as a multiverse, which is a claim i've stated before. in THAT case, the statement makes absolutely PERFECT sense. and if he exists in all universes simultaneously, how does he manifest in each? contemplator says the being REPRESENTS lt -- not IS lt. if every lt is ALL of lt, did ALL lt's across the multiverse get scattered across dimensions by reed? of course not because each lt (while still part of the whole) is a seperate and distinct manifestation. truely -- it makes so much sense to me. how else do you explain it? you can't. you can just say -- that's what it says. i like my explanation better even if NO ONE sees it that way.

ONLY TWO M-bodys of Eternity were shown in Quasar#37, ("simultaneously"😉

i told you the third was in 38, found by contemplator just after quasar left. 3 in all.

But why you continue to struggle to mesh the two is beyond me.

why you say 2 eternities can both exist yet both be complete eternities is also beyond me.

The Eternity M-body with the Beyonder is from a separate issue, so it's inconsequential, and we still don't even know from WHAT Comic that is taking place, if from any at all.

isn't that the scene where they are pleading that death not be eliminated?

SO how you figure "some"?

Why not ALL?

i said it could be all . . . just not that it NEEDS to be, or has to be and that an m-body can be destroyed/killed without it 'killing' the concept that it represents.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Wait, why don't you read our entire debate, so you can know how it ties in.

😆

anywho, please don't go point for point, mm. this will NEVER END!! 😱

my contention is a simple one: an m-body represents the abstract, but it NOT the complete abstract. if an m-body is destroyed, the abstract need not be destroyed (it could be IF the abstract wills ALL of itself into the body, i suppose). eternity seen from OUTSIDE itself could logically have an m-body that encompasses all of it if it chose. why is this important? because then that allows for tha fact that thanos could have absorbed m-bodies of lt, eternity and infinity rather than all their essence, leaving the remainder of the universe behind which thanos than absorbed.

basically that's let atleza anchor the 616 (as she has been said to) as opposed to the multiverse, it explains all the terminology that was used in the story (universe was used repeatedly, not multiverse, by charatcers WELL versed in things cosmic . . .) and prevents any real speculation about the events because it fits with the story and the explanations put forth by marvel AND (perhaps more imortantly) the writer of the story.

for those reasons, i believe it was the universe that was absorbed. everyone else is free to believe whatever they wish. occams razor for me -- the simplest explanation is the best.

i'm pretty much done, mm. a fine debate as usual and civil til the end!! yay for us! 😄

Originally posted by Mr Master
Real debates emcompass many realms in order to reach a complete understanding.

Leon is an expert debater, and I won't tute my own horn but I know I put effort into the reasoning of my arguments with as much proof as possible.

This leads to a discussion that broadens as the posts flow on.

Simply put,

in order for us to reach the center of opportunity in definiteness, we have to first pass through the circumference of time.

thanks, mm! not to sound like a mutual admiration society, but you're pretty good yourself. not many times lately have a felt the need to delve into books for proof and assistance. i used to all the time when i was new.

you brought it outta me again. well done.
cheers

Originally posted by leonidas
again, i don't get what you're saying. that meeting took place during secret wars 2. in the dimension of m all the manifestations are existing at the same time. seriously, i don't get why you don't see it.

Holy PIS, Secret Wars 2?

So again, the event with the Beyonder and the Trial of Warlock is still playing over and over?

No matter the logic, PIS, or just plain stupid.

One thing is to go back in time,

but because History is just repeating itself, those are simultaneous events taking place between Comatose Eternity and the others?

nah ... that's a cop-out, due to PIS.

It's not your fault, it's the complete PIS of the story attempting to jam down our throats this concept of M-bodys.

AND even more hilarious about this whole scene is that when Cosmic came to the Beyonder they WEREN'T even in the Dimension of Manifestation,

they WERE in a RESTAURANT!

There're still CHAIRS and TABLES there 😆

HOW the heck did this turn into a Dimesion of manifestation moment?

Oh silly PIS Writers.

Originally posted by leonidas
i denied this somewhere . . .?

You kept saying they were simultaneous events,

and I disagree.

Originally posted by leonidas
no it's not because time has no meaning where they are.

That's nice, it's still rediculous that Beyonder is still in that meeting with the Cosmics in Secret Wars 2,

just thinking about that makes me laugh, you have to be throwing a chuckle too.

Originally posted by leonidas
characters go back in time a lot and change continuity. why couldn't continuity have been changed in this case retroactively? the scene has never been revisited, so we have no way to know for sure.

That Quasar issue was interesting at first, now it's silly.

Originally posted by leonidas
correct, but i said also said the power of an m-body could vary.

No proof of that.

Originally posted by leonidas
if someone is standing outside the universe and wants to talk to eternity, THAT m-body may well encompass the whole universe.

I agree.

Originally posted by leonidas
i said not all m-bodies are the same. an m-body existing WITHIN the universe cannot (it's IMPOSSIBLE to use your earlier term) for it to encompass the whole universe when it exists WITHIN the universe.

Proof, or else it's speculation.

Originally posted by leonidas
umm, that's exactly what i've been saying all along. you said the m-body encompasses the whole universe -- if it encompasses the whole universe then . . . why wouldn't that include the 'spirit'?

the REAL eternity does not exist within ANY m-body. that's what i've been saying. the spiritual consciousness does NOT reside within the m-body"

Actually, I was quoting you, you took that as though I was saying it.

That's correct, I still say based On Panel evidence that M-body encompasses the whole Universe, and the Spirit.

Originally posted by leonidas
the 'spirit' was bound, as such it could not affect the m-body.

I asked for proof,

your personal opinion isn't proof.

Show On Panel Magus doing this.

I already posted what magus did On Panel to Eternity, it had nothing to do with Spirituality.

Magus Comatose Eternity, end of story On Panel, if you can prove otherwise, please do.

Originally posted by leonidas
the 'spirit' was bound put struggling. spirit: active attempting to escape magus's binding. m-body: inert. the m-body is meaningless and incomplete. the spirit or essence is key.

Again,

this isn't the proof I requested.

Originally posted by leonidas
the 'spirit' was bound by magus.

I'll just repeat what I requested:

Eagerly awaiting to see this SCAN of "the SPIRIT of (the so-called) M-body being placed in a Coma" by Magus.

Originally posted by leonidas
my take has never changed. the m-body represents the abstract, but it is an incomplete representation. essentially it IS the concept, but the body is meaningless (depending on what the abstract wills, of course). a destroyed m-body does not necessarily destroy the concept.

Again,

Where's the proof, that M-bodys are "Incomplete representations"?

That's what I requested.

I can assure you, you won't find it in Quasar #37 or #38.

Originally posted by leonidas
when death DOES come back its in a new m-body. strange beat the first, but that win is meaningless of course, because death can instantly recreate a new m-body.

Just cause Strange seemingly knocked out Death, doesn't mean he killed/destroyed or anything remotely close to that.

Originally posted by leonidas
you can continue to believe they are meaningless. your perogative.

According to the Fractals, they're just "Reflections" of PAST Death M-bodys.

"Our Dimension contains Reflections of EVERY MANIFESTATION we have EVER DONE"

A bunch of left over "Reflections" of Deaths.

Not my prerogative, that's what this silly issue leads one to believe.

Originally posted by leonidas
he was sent against q because lt noticed quasar. that action, even his words, are independent of the situation we HAD seen in the past. if they were simple reflections, quasar could NOT have interfered. they were not just 'replays' of past events.

I'm sorry,

but this is silly at this point. (not you, the issue)

Originally posted by leonidas
she couldn't -- she too was bound along with eternity by magus. she either couldn't manifest an m-body or that infinity q saw was also in a coma. not sure which as it was never really defined.

Correct, it was not defined, and she sure did NOT look Comatose like Eternity

In FACT, all Quasar said was:

"she's IGNORING me, GUESS THIS ISN'T the M-BODY I MET"

We can only take Quasar's word when he comments about the Anomaly, but what about here?

What is even MORE interesting is,

if ALL these M-BODYS are from the SAME UNIVERSAL ENTITIES as you said, WHY would he say, "GUESS THIS ISN'T the M-BODY I MET"

AND

"What'd I expect, She of ALL people must have an INFINITE Number of M-BODIES"

Quasar just STRENGTHENED my theory that in FACT the MULTIPLE Reflections are from OTHER UNIVERSES, if not meaningless.

Originally posted by leonidas
so none of them were really death? they ALL were.

Now because of Quasar's moment with Infinity,

I confidently believe they are Deaths of OTHER Universes.

Originally posted by leonidas
you keep talking about errors in the story. my explanation easily accounts for all these 'errors'.

I just couldn't dare grasp that they were actually including Secret Wars 2 Beyonder.

That's hilarious.

Originally posted by leonidas
eternity and infinity resisted almost as long as lt did. lt should have lasted a lot longer. my explanation: the lt m-body was more powerful than eternity but not by all that much.

Where is this stated On Panel?

Originally posted by leonidas
multi-eternity would be a great deal more powerful and seemingly should have/could have resisted.

Speculating.

Originally posted by leonidas
abraxas was like multi's kryptonite, its drax.

Then Thanos would have been his Kryptonite, Red Sun and Magic Combined.

Originally posted by leonidas
even singlular eternity resisted thanos.

You mean Eternity ATTEMPTED to resist Thanos, then got curbstomped effortlessly.

Originally posted by leonidas
no worries. malestrom DID assume its role though and commited the m-body to oblivion.

If that were so, the Anomaly would have been erased from existence,

as that's what happens within Oblivion, your Nullified from Reality.

Originally posted by leonidas
again, your perogative.

"My prerogative"?

Gamora enters Eternity, (the "M-body"😉 and ends up inside the Infinite Universe he is.

Again:

Thanos became the Universe, by taking Eternity's (the "M-body"😉 place

Again:

When Korvac erased this Universe, it was Eternity (the "M-body"😉 that was erased

Again:

When Insane Genis destroyed the Universe, it was Eternity (the M-body) he crushed

Again:

When Reed Erased and Created a New Multi-verse, again, it's Eternity/Infinity (the M-body) that's Erased and Created anew

Again:

The UNIVERSE materializing into ETERNITY before Galactus

Again:

The UNIVERSE materializing Into ETERNITY before Strange

You mean Marvel's prerogative.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'm just trying to explain what i've seen. you asked about it, now that i've answered your query you are calling pis.

I've seen it too though, and I've answered your query,

and yes, it lands on PIS after reviewing all the facts.

Now that's my prerogative.

Originally posted by leonidas
lt and eternity are said to exist in all times and places. perhap this is how they do so.

Perhaps.

PIS arc though.

Originally posted by leonidas
i don't mean to torture you, but it really does make sense to me.

This is fun,

and the only sense I'm getting is a sense of PIS.

I'll continue tomorrow, I need sleep now.

okey-dokey. a couple things i know you wanted to see. the first 3 deal with the binding and freeing of eternity's consciousness. it still struggled against its bonds and would have broken free on its own, but galactus didn't want to wait. when it's released, infinity is ALSO released.

the next ones deal with an issue i KNOW you'll bring up: the singular eternity being referenced as a 'multiverse'. we've been over this before, but you know i think calling singular eternity a multiverse is completely valid as eternity 616 is made of countless dimensions/relaities/planes/universes. you also know that i think the best proof for this is the defenders ltd series where eternity tells dormammu they have met before, indicating this is the SAME eternity he fought in the past and NOT multi-eternity as you claim it is. i think the term multiverse as it was used in that series refers strictly to 616's eternity and NOT the multi-eternity.

here are a couple interesting NEW scans (and nothing like the silliness of that defenders series) which back it up further.

"A hand which holds whole UNIVERSES." he even references strange's universe (the 616) as a dimension.

viewed from this perspective, that lt scan makes perfect sense, no error needed to explain it. each singular eternity IS a multiverse, all combined make multi-eternity. in the book eternity also references a past meeting with strange and reminds strange that the ancient one was the first mortal to ever see him. are we to ascribe every meeting with eternity retroactively as a meeting with MULTI-eternity . . .? no, i don't think so. strange was before 616 eternity. ancient one was before 616 eternity, and in the defenders, dormammu was before 616 eternity.

anyway, i actually like this explanation BETTER than calling error or pis in your lt scan. 🙂

what do you think goober?

ps-a thought just occurred to me, mm. you say warlock met multi-eternity, and the most convincing piece of evidence you site is the fact that they existed in myriad fashions. the d of m explains away THAT little quote quite nicely, as well and further strengthens the notion that it was NOT multi-eternity warlock stood before (a fact that cannot be explained by any on-panel evidence in that book, anyway, but which actually DOES say he was searching out simply eternity). no speculation needed, no bringing in of other books not relevent to the book that is in question. 😉

i think this has all come together rather nicely.

somehow. 😂

Wow Leo, that's actually a very interesting theory, and I can't really come up with anything wrong with it off the top of my head. Let me give it some thought and get back to you about it.

But check out what I realized not very long ago. Ok now you say that the whole Ultra-verse thing is one indication of LT's restricted power right? OK, now I normally HATE calling PIS on cosmics, because it's to easy to abuse that in an effort to structure the cosmic hierarchy to your liking. HOWEVER there's not really much choice in this instance. And here's the explanation for it. Now, in the Infinity War #6 when Eternity reinstates the restriction on the gems he says "Let it be known that the power the Living Tribunal REPRESENTS will never allow the gems to be used in unison". Now to me, it sounds like Eternity is actually talking about TOAA, because he's the power over LT. So if the gems worked together in the Ultra-verse, that would mean that it went against HIS ruling. So the only thing that really makes sense, its to write the thing off as bad writing, and the single biggest instance of PIS in comics( it'd actually be the biggest also, because it happened on TOAA).

So what do you think?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Wow Leo, that's actually a very interesting theory, and I can't really come up with anything wrong with it off the top of my head. Let me give it some thought and get back to you about it.

But check out what I realized not very long ago. Ok now you say that the whole Ultra-verse thing is one indication of LT's restricted power right? OK, now I normally HATE calling PIS on cosmics, because it's to easy to abuse that in an effort to structure the cosmic hierarchy to your liking. HOWEVER there's not really much choice in this instance. And here's the explanation for it. Now, in the Infinity War #6 when Eternity reinstates the restriction on the gems he says "Let it be known that the power the Living Tribunal REPRESENTS will never allow the gems to be used in unison". Now to me, it sounds like Eternity is actually talking about TOAA, because he's the power over LT. So if the gems worked together in the Ultra-verse, that would mean that it went against HIS ruling. So the only thing that really makes sense, its to write the thing off as bad writing, and the single biggest instance of PIS in comics( it'd actually be the biggest also, because it happened on TOAA).

So what do you think?

could be PIS. i like how you prefaced your stance about hating PIS first. i hate it to for EXACTLY the reason you mentioned. 🙂 the only other way around it is to speculate that lt's ruling called only for the inability to use the gems in THIS multiverse. i hate guessing at something like that, but i suppose it COULD be viewed retroactively to mean that . . . of course there is no evidence to support it. 🙁

even allowing for that to be pis, the multiversal view of a singular eternity works pretty well -- and doesn't call for there to have been an error in the printing, or a typo, etc . . . 🙂

Originally posted by leonidas
if the lt exists in every universe at the same time, why wouldn't there be a d of m in each universe?

Because the On Panel Evidence clearly states that the Dimension of Manifestation is the Living Tribunal's REALM:

"The DIMENSION of MANIFESTATIONS ... The REALM of the LIVING TRIBUNAL"

Do you have PROOF that contradicts this?

Do you have PROOF that there are MORE than ONE Dimension of Manifestation?

Saying, "Why wouldn't there be"

Is baseless SPECULATION.

Originally posted by leonidas
how do you come to the conclusion that just because it is said to be lt's realm that it is the only one in the . . . multiverse? omniverse? lt can only have one realm?

With in the ONE and ONLY Dimension of Manifestations, ALL the M-bodys of the Multi-verse/Omni-verse appear.

Which is WHY Quasar could NOT locate the M-body of Infinity that knows him:

When Gamora finds that Infinity was trapped Inside the Consciouness/Spirit of Eternity she says,

"With Eternity, that's INFINITY! ... "That's WHY Quasar COULDN'T LOCATE Her"

"COULDN'T LOCATE Her?"

But he DID LOCATE INFINITY:

In FACT, what Quasar said was:

"she's IGNORING me, GUESS THIS ISN'T the M-BODY I MET"

"What'd I expect, She of ALL people must have an INFINITE Number of M-BODIES"

SO what does this mean?

That THIS is a DIFFERENT Infinity, in FACT the MULTIPLE Reflections in the Dimension of Manifestations are from OTHER UNIVERSES! (That's what this proves)

Originally posted by leonidas
seems like one realm for THIS universe's manifestation of lt explains things nicely.

Of course it sounds nicely to YOU,

it's YOUR opinion on the matter, your not going to say what your OPINION (WITHOUT PROOF) sounds illogical.

Originally posted by leonidas
how do you know it has nothing to do with scale of power? the form can vary. why would that be limited to simply shape?

Your SPECULATING again.

"Some Entities have very SPECIFIC Requirements, others give us FREER REIGN"

"Frequently we FORM the MANIFESTATION-BODY to the MENTAL IMAGE of the Beholder"

You can't go around ADDING theories and speculation to what was said On Panel to solidify what your postulating.

The Fractals claim to have some freedom in the Form of the M-body, and NOTHING else.

Originally posted by leonidas
meh, i sense circles growing . . .

I been seeing them.