Civil War Report

Originally posted by grey fox
Bullshit , your history books are edited out.

We were in the war from the beginning while you an 'uncle sam' ponced off . Then you only got involved when pearl harbour was bombed.

We saved [b]YOUR ass Yankee.... [/B]

And as far as history text books goes, thats really the result of all nations. White washing occurs in every country, not just America

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Actually thats not completely true. Before the incidence of Pearl Harbor the U.S was secretly sending military supplies via commercials ships however the envolvement of the U.S physically was towards the end of the war. The involvement probably could not have come at a better time considering Hitlers forces had made the same mistake of Napolean and expanded with lack of overall control. The U.S involvement was building before Pearl Harbor. The reasons behind our involvement was not as much to save other nations but to save our own asses. It was pretty clear the problems that would have arised if Hitler had succedded. That why Germany was our number 1 concern and not Japan.

And as far as history text books goes, thats really the result of all nations. White washing occurs in every country, not just America

Originally posted by A.J
Do you actually think you would have attack thm if you hadnt been atacked first. 🙄

Probably not, however Japan attacked the USA, not Germany.

Besides its not like Europe stopped Germany from gathering its military forces and invading and crushing Europe. Europe was in defense mode and not able to handle the German War Machine at all.

Wow, I'm gone for a day and I fall a few pages behind.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Okay then, so what happens if ALL the superheroes with families decide to hang up their tights? How will the government protect there country from rampant maniacs then?

The heroes should be seen as a supplement, not a central focus. The goverment would use the resources it has to defeat these threats.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Heroes feel that it's their responsibility to use their powers for good.

Yes, and so does Magneto. He uses his powers for the good of his people. So we see how well it turns out when you let the average person on the streets decide how and when to use their powers for the greater good.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
As stated before, Shaw and Wilson Fisk are part of the Government and yes they have the resources to get this information. Hell Mystique could breeze her way through security and get it. It is very easy to get this information when you have that sort of power and influence.

It's still far harder than you are making it appear.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
No that's not true, it keeps happening because they don't try to blend in. The Islamic Community does not blend in very well with western society because of their beliefs and values. They stand against it yes but they don't blend in. They don't drink, meaning socializing through alcohol goes out the window. The way they dress, shows that they are different, that they have a different way of life. The whole incident that occured in the UK was for this very reason. The Islamic Society finds it very difficult to integrate itself into western society. Though standing up for what you believe in is noble, it is not the clever thing to do in a society where the media and government demonise your culture and beliefs. It is not the smart thing to do when there are thugs out there like Stryker who with this knowledge killed 50+ mutant children.

But standing up for what you believe in is STILL the best way, hell it's about the ONLY way change will ever occur. If you don't stand ready to make personal sacrifices yourself, your children and your children's children will suffer the consequences.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Also about standing up for what you believe in, Capt and his side believe that the SRA is wrong. Aren't they standing up for what they believe in, even though it means defying the government? When black people were oppressed in South Africa, Nelson Mandela stood up against the Government for his rights and his beliefs. That's the same thing the Super Heroes are doing.

The difference between what Dr. King did, and what Mandela did and what Cap is going to do; is that Dr. King refused to resort to violence to acheive change. Let the heros protest if they want. Let them hold a rally and try to change public opinion. But the instant they begin to fight those who are merely enforcing the law they cease being heroes and become criminals. They become hypocrites, because they are saying that their powers place them above the law.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Even if Spidey quit, he would still need to register as a super powered being. Meaning both ways his family would be at risk.

No he wouldn't. the SRA is only going to require active heroes to register. Meaning that it's his decision on how much risk his family faces. Either they risk nothing by his retirement, or they risk trusting the government and he keeps on fighting.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Actually Xavier isn't happy. Because of that very incident the XIOHL was revealed as a mutant school meaning it wasn't a safe haven anymore. And after the House of M Stryker managed to kill 50+ students.

Xavier said he was happy she did it. I have the comic at home. Do I need to try and did it up again?

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Shield has so many secrets I'm suprised that it hasn't happened already. The Goverment has already abused their power I see no reason why they won't do it again. Sebastian Shaw has been granted immunity from O.N.E. Why is that? What makes him different? Does that mean the wealthier you are the more you get away with?

But that's just my point, it hasn't happened.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
The Punisher example is to show you how easy it is to obtain that kind of information. He trusted the Government with his identity and look what happened. The thing that they fear the most has already happened because of the SRA. A Civil war has already begun, the Superheroes are divided, the Government failed. And there will be a lot of loss.

Your Punisher example has a worst case scenario of the SRA resulting in hundreds, possibly even thousands dead. My Kingdom Come example has a worst case scenario of millions, possibly even tens of millions dead.

Marvel got off lucky with the Stamford Incident. Lucky that it only took the deaths of 600 to force people to take actions. It could've been worst; much, much worst. In Kingdom Come it took the destruction of the entire state of Kansas, and a large portion of some of the surrounding states, along with the deaths of millions before people decided to take action.

Originally posted by Soleran
Probably not, however Japan attacked the USA, not Germany.

Besides its not like Europe stopped Germany from gathering its military forces and invading and crushing Europe. Europe was in defense mode and not able to handle the German War Machine at all.

AJ, chill, you're Welsh, not a true Englishman, and you followed US into the war! 😈

Originally posted by HellMaster93
AJ, chill, you're Welsh, not a true Englishman, and you followed US into the war! 😈

Good use of rational argument to support your claims AJ... you're credibility serves you well.

Originally posted by Soleran
Probably not, however Japan attacked the USA, not Germany.

Besides its not like Europe stopped Germany from gathering its military forces and invading and crushing Europe. Europe was in defense mode and not able to handle the German War Machine at all.

That's not entirely true. The French surrendered but there was a huge resistance movement occurring within France with spys everywhere, and in case you didn't notice, in England we aren't speaking German because many English men held their own and stood their ground 🙂

I think its summed up best in a TV program related to WW2 recently.

"The Nazi war machine cut a path through a lot of Europe killing thousands, millions and gaining in size, until on the edge a small muddy little island named England said NO."

Many American people say that they saved us. it's true that they jumped in right at the end of the war and helped out on a grand scale, but only at the end. Much of Britain was holding her own up until that moment and a lot of the British plans to cut off Germany's food supplies (despite Germany's use of Autarky by now and Goering's speeches of Guns or butter) were successful and German's started to starve 🙂

Originally posted by Jade Lightning
Good use of rational argument to support your claims AJ... you're credibility serves you well.

Originally posted by Black Adam
is that the name of the current spidey arc in amz?

I read the first issue (ASM #532). Ever since Tony Stark gave him the new costume/armor ive been suspicious of Tony, after all he is a politician of sorts. After reading this issue I cant help buut feel that Tony Stark is manipulating Peter into revealing that he is Spider-Man, after alll Spidey is one of the most famous and recognized heroes, with him approving registration it would give it credibility and other less famous and gullable(sp?) heroes will follow. Tony Stark is deceiving everyone.

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
I read the first issue (ASM #532). Ever since Tony Stark gave him the new costume/armor ive been suspicious of Tony, after all he is a politician of sorts. After reading this issue I cant help buut feel that Tony Stark is manipulating Peter into revealing that he is Spider-Man, after alll Spidey is one of the most famous and recognized heroes, with him approving registration it would give it credibility and other less famous and gullable(sp?) heroes will follow. Tony Stark is deceiving everyone.

Tony never told Peter to go public with his ID. Hell, Iron Man hasn't even done that himself. He revealed himself to the government, that's all. He may've encouraged Pete to reeal himself to the government, but the decision to go public was all May's idea.

Meh, this all comes down to what we THINK is morally right, and what we KNOW is legally right, and obviously enough the Against side will win. Just because most of the readers tend to agree with Cap and his side 😉

Originally posted by willRules
That's not entirely true. The French surrendered but there was a huge resistance movement occurring within France with spys everywhere, and in case you didn't notice, in England we aren't speaking German because many English men held their own and stood their ground 🙂

I think its summed up best in a TV program related to WW2 recently.

"The Nazi war machine cut a path through a lot of Europe killing thousands, millions and gaining in size, until on the edge a small muddy little island named England said NO."

I am aware of the resistance and I am certainly not downplaying Britain's vital role, but rest assured if Germany wasn't strung out on 2 battle fronts you most probably would be speaking German today.

No one better defeated Germany then Germany themselves. Russia was their biggest downfall and Japan lost mostly due to them coming over and playing with a country that could outproduce them and out man them.

Believe me when I say Britain would have been crushed by Germany had they focused their attention there, USA or not.

So anyway back to civil war and done with history, who's got some great scans now?🙂

Originally posted by Mr.V
Meh, this all comes down to what we THINK is morally right, and what we KNOW is legally right, and obviously enough the Against side will win. Just because most of the readers tend to agree with Cap and his side 😉

Originally posted by Soleran
I am aware of the resistance and I am certainly not downplaying Britain's vital role, but rest assured if Germany wasn't strung out on 2 battle fronts you most probably would be speaking German today.

No one better defeated Germany then Germany themselves. Russia was their biggest downfall and Japan lost mostly due to them coming over and playing with a country that could outproduce them and out man them.

Believe me when I say Britain would have been crushed by Germany had they focused their attention there, USA or not.

So anyway back to civil war and done with history, who's got some great scans now?🙂

Is ish 2 ou yet?

Originally posted by HellMaster93
Is ish 2 ou yet?

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
The difference between what Dr. King did, and what Mandela did and what Cap is going to do; is that Dr. King refused to resort to violence to acheive change. Let the heros protest if they want. Let them hold a rally and try to change public opinion. But the instant they begin to fight those who are merely enforcing the law they cease being heroes and become criminals. They become hypocrites, because they are saying that their powers place them above the law.

This is possibly the best quote I've seen in a Civil War debate. 👆

Now that we're 1 issue into this, let's relook over the questions from the first post.

FROM THE ISSUE OF WIZARD

1) Which pair of heroes will join the Fantastic Four after Civil War?
A) Luke Cage and Jessica Jones
B) Human Galactus and Silver Surfer
C) Storm and Black Panther
D) She-Hulk and Hawkeye

Still unknown at this point, but my money's still on She-Hulk and Hawkeye.

2) Which character willingly reveals their secret identity to the world during Civil War?
A) Spider-man
B) Spider-woman
C) Daredevil
D) Iron Man

A foregone conclusion at this point that it's Spider-man.

3) Which hero will choose retirement over registration as a result of the events happening in Civil War?
A) Iron Fist
B) Firestar
C) Falcon
D) Wonder Man

I'm now going with Wonder Man on this, but only because I haven't seen or heard much from the others.

4) Which hero is arrested during Civil War?
A) Captain America
B) Punisher
C) Iron Man
D) Nick Fury

At this point I have to say it'll be Cap.

5) Which two heroes will make their triumphant return in the pages of Civil War?
A) Thor
B) Captain Marvel
C) Ant-Man
D) Hawkeye

Smart money's on Thor and Hawkeye.

6) Civil War brings out the dark side of one hero. Which one will resort to brutal torture?
A) Black Panther
B) Dr. Strange
C) Iron Man
D) Namor

Namor, because he's pissed about his cousin dying.

7) Which hero gets beaten into a coma during Civil War?
A) Kitty Pryde
B) Human Torch
C) Spider-woman
D) Shang-Chi

Already seen to be the Torch.

8) Which surprise character will join the Avengers at the end of Civil War?
A) Speedball
B) Ares
C) Iron Fist
D) Hyperion (Squadron Supreme)

...don't know.

9) Which team will be reformed as a result of Civil War?
A) The Champions
B) Alpha Flight
C) X-Force
D) West Coast Avengers

Still too early to tell.

10) Which character will switch sides during Civil War?
A) Mr. Fantastic
B) Spider-man
C) Wolverine
D) Invisible Woman

It's GOT to be Spidey.