Civil War Report

Originally posted by BlaqChaos

Tony never told Peter to go public with his ID. Hell, Iron Man hasn't even done that himself. He revealed himself to the government, that's all. He may've encouraged Pete to reeal himself to the government, but the decision to go public was all May's idea.

True Tony never flat out told him to do it but he did make a point in telling Peter all the bad things that would happen if he didnt, he never mentioned the good ones. Is like Palpatine in SW3, until he killed Mace Windu he hadnt tell Anakin what to do, he just put the seeds in his head knowing Anakin was too naive and he told him what he wanted to hear. I guess will have to see if Tony's motives were truly honest.

My takes on the Wizard survey:

Now that we're 1 issue into this, let's relook over the questions from the first post.

FROM THE ISSUE OF WIZARD

1) Which pair of heroes will join the Fantastic Four after Civil War?

D) She-Hulk and Hawkeye

2) Which character willingly reveals their secret identity to the world during Civil War?
A) Spider-man

3) Which hero will choose retirement over registration as a result of the events happening in Civil War?

B) Firestar: Im going with her because of all the things involving the New Warriors recently.

-Aint Wonder Man's already public? With him being a Hollywood actor and all.

4) Which hero is arrested during Civil War?
D) Nick Fury
-Cap will be leading the anti-registration forces.

5) Which two heroes will make their triumphant return in the pages of Civil War?
A) Thor: because of his hammer showing up in the pages of F4.

C) Ant-Man: Ive seen previous of the new Heroes for Hire and Ant Man is in it.
-Hawkeye already returned in the pages of House of M already.

6) Civil War brings out the dark side of one hero. Which one will resort to brutal torture?
A) Black Panther: He wasnt in favor of the SRA to begin with.

Namor's never been too much of a good guy.

7) Which hero gets beaten into a coma during Civil War?

B) Human Torch

Already seen to be the Torch.

8) Which surprise character will join the Avengers at the end of Civil War?
C) Iron Fist: I go with him because the others really dont make sens and Speedball is a joke.

9) Which team will be reformed as a result of Civil War?
A) The Champions
B) Alpha Flight
C) X-Force
D) West Coast Avengers

Still too early to tell.

10) Which character will switch sides during Civil War?
A) Mr. Fantastic
B) Spider-man
C) Wolverine
D) Invisible Woman

It's GOT to be Spidey.

Originally posted by Soleran
I am aware of the resistance and I am certainly not downplaying Britain's vital role, but rest assured if Germany wasn't strung out on 2 battle fronts you most probably would be speaking German today.

No one better defeated Germany then Germany themselves. Russia was their biggest downfall and Japan lost mostly due to them coming over and playing with a country that could outproduce them and out man them.

Believe me when I say Britain would have been crushed by Germany had they focused their attention there, USA or not.

So anyway back to civil war and done with history, who's got some great scans now?🙂

Ok fair enough

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
9) Which team will be reformed as a result of Civil War?
A) The Champions
B) Alpha Flight
C) X-Force
D) West Coast Avengers

Still too early to tell.

10) Which character will switch sides during Civil War?
A) Mr. Fantastic
B) Spider-man
C) Wolverine
D) Invisible Woman

It's GOT to be Spidey.

I reckon the answer to 9) is Alpha Flight and I agree with your view on 10)

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
But standing up for what you believe in is STILL the best way, hell it's about the ONLY way change will ever occur. If you don't stand ready to make personal sacrifices yourself, your children and your children's children will suffer the consequences.

anyone else see how that argument could go both ways in this discussion?

Originally posted by BlaqChaos The difference between what Dr. King did, and what Mandela did and what Cap is going to do; is that Dr. King refused to resort to violence to acheive change. Let the heros protest if they want. Let them hold a rally and try to change public opinion. But the instant they begin to fight those who are merely enforcing the law they cease being heroes and become criminals. They become hypocrites, because they are saying that their powers place them above the law.

a criminal in the eyes of a conscience-less government, yes. but, place yourself in their shoes, or a similar situation. imagine, you're a to-be father driving his wife to the hospital after her water broke. you fear, for whatever reason, something is wrong with the way the birthing has started, and are rushing. you speed, you blow red lights, you change lanes without signaling. in the eyes of those enforcing traffic laws, you are breaking the law; thus becoming a "criminal." however, in your own respect, you are going beyond the law to fulfill a duty you are compelled to. in that situation, which would be better; if the husband were to pull over as a cop chased him, and calmly explain his situation in a pacifist, non-violent manner whilst his wife and child may be in mortal danger, OR continue to break the law in the hopes that your transgressions will be pardoned due to the nobility behind them?

there are situations that exist in which the diplomatic process is not the right choice; and many superheroes are finding themselves in one of these positions. is it really that difficult to see how the SRA could hinder the type of actions explained above, and while keeping the laws intact, put people at great risk?

Originally posted by Disappear
anyone else see how that argument could go both ways in this discussion?

a criminal in the eyes of a conscience-less government, yes. but, place yourself in their shoes, or a similar situation. imagine, you're a to-be father driving his wife to the hospital after her water broke. you fear, for whatever reason, something is wrong with the way the birthing has started, and are rushing. you speed, you blow red lights, you change lanes without signaling. in the eyes of those enforcing traffic laws, you are breaking the law; thus becoming a "criminal." however, in your own respect, you are going beyond the law to fulfill a duty you are compelled to. in that situation, which would be better; if the husband were to pull over as a cop chased him, and calmly explain his situation in a pacifist, non-violent manner whilst his wife and child may be in mortal danger, OR continue to break the law in the hopes that your transgressions will be pardoned due to the nobility behind them?

there are situations that exist in which the diplomatic process is not the right choice; and many superheroes are finding themselves in one of these positions. is it really that difficult to see how the SRA could hinder the type of actions explained above, and while keeping the laws intact, put people at great risk?

But there is a difference with the situation you presented. If a guys wife goes into labor and he decides to take action to save her, that's the same as if a superpowered person sees a crime in progress and decides to take action to save someone's life. Just like a normal citizen can see a crime in progress and decide to take action to try and save someone's life.

The problem comes in when they start actively patrolling and looking for crimes to stop. The guy rushing his wife to the hospital wasn't looking for people to go and and speed to safety. He saw a situation and he acted on the situation.

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
But there is a difference with the situation you presented. If a guys wife goes into labor and he decides to take action to save her, that's the same as if a superpowered person sees a crime in progress and decides to take action to save someone's life. Just like a normal citizen can see a crime in progress and decide to take action to try and save someone's life.

The problem comes in when they start [b]actively patrolling and looking for crimes to stop. The guy rushing his wife to the hospital wasn't looking for people to go and and speed to safety. He saw a situation and he acted on the situation. [/B]

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
But there is a difference with the situation you presented. If a guys wife goes into labor and he decides to take action to save her, that's the same as if a superpowered person sees a crime in progress and decides to take action to save someone's life. Just like a normal citizen can see a crime in progress and decide to take action to try and save someone's life.

The problem comes in when they start [b]actively patrolling and looking for crimes to stop. The guy rushing his wife to the hospital wasn't looking for people to go and and speed to safety. He saw a situation and he acted on the situation. [/B]

Is Issue 2 STILL not bloody out!?

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
But there is a difference with the situation you presented. If a guys wife goes into labor and he decides to take action to save her, that's the same as if a superpowered person sees a crime in progress and decides to take action to save someone's life. Just like a normal citizen can see a crime in progress and decide to take action to try and save someone's life.

The problem comes in when they start [b]actively patrolling and looking for crimes to stop. The guy rushing his wife to the hospital wasn't looking for people to go and and speed to safety. He saw a situation and he acted on the situation. [/B]

So by that logic if they weren't "actively patrolling" and didn't see the situation then its OK?? 😕 cos then it would be better to "actively patrol" as you put it......

Originally posted by Disappear
anyone else see how that argument could go both ways in this discussion?

a criminal in the eyes of a conscience-less government, yes. but, place yourself in their shoes, or a similar situation. imagine, you're a to-be father driving his wife to the hospital after her water broke. you fear, for whatever reason, something is wrong with the way the birthing has started, and are rushing. you speed, you blow red lights, you change lanes without signaling. in the eyes of those enforcing traffic laws, you are breaking the law; thus becoming a "criminal." however, in your own respect, you are going beyond the law to fulfill a duty you are compelled to. in that situation, which would be better; if the husband were to pull over as a cop chased him, and calmly explain his situation in a pacifist, non-violent manner whilst his wife and child may be in mortal danger, OR continue to break the law in the hopes that your transgressions will be pardoned due to the nobility behind them?

there are situations that exist in which the diplomatic process is not the right choice; and many superheroes are finding themselves in one of these positions. is it really that difficult to see how the SRA could hinder the type of actions explained above, and while keeping the laws intact, put people at great risk?

I agree with you and think that's a good example of a hero choosing what's right over what is legal 🙂

It's 50/50 for me at the mo... WHAT A DISCUSSION!

Originally posted by Big Sexy
Thats a good point but look at the situation. In a world where villians have the capabilities of destroying whole cities, the government is obsolete. These heroes take the law into their own hands because no one else will.

The Young Avengers took the law into their own hands when they tried to stop a bank robbery, and things went wrong. The New Warriors took the law into their own hands when they tried to apprehend a group of villians, and things went wrong.

In saying that it's okay for the heroes to act outside the law, you are in effect saying to them "Do as you please. Your power makes you about the laws that the rest of humanity must abide by. Do as you see fit, as we know you cannot falter. You are above us, and we have no right to question you."

Originally posted by willRules
So by that logic if they weren't "actively patrolling" and didn't see the situation then its OK?? 😕 cos then it would be better to "actively patrol" as you put it......

Let me put it to you this way. ANY citizen can make a citizen's arrest if they witness a felony in progress. They can act because they're there for the situation as it's happening. It's completely legal. Now, if that same person was to patrol the street looking for felonies to stop, then they become a vigilante. At this point they are now breaking the law, and breaking the law to enforce the law is never a good road to travel.

Here's a question for everyone. Do you know why so many bad guys end up back on the streets in Marvel? Because the criminals are still citizens, and are garunteed their rights. So, when the police come and get a person hanging from a webline with a note saying he's a purse snatcher, how are the police to prosecute this person? How many cases do you think have been thrown out because of lack of evidence, because the hero didn't secure something. Or lack of witnesses, because you know after Spidey webs a bad guy to a wall, the victim isn't going to stand by and wait for the police. Or because the crime scene has been contaminated, because the hero sure as hell didn't secure the scene afterwards. And it fall to the police and the DA to fix the mucked up situations the heroes keep creating over and over.

Originally posted by willRules
I agree with you and think that's a good example of a hero choosing what's right over what is legal 🙂

I wonder whose side Galactus is on....?

I wonder, Is the government going to pay for the services of all the heroes that register? If so how are they even going to afford them

CW#1 last page.

Personally, Iron Man's scheming is really getting on my nerves, causing me to finally choose a side in the war, as I was on the fence for a long time.

I'm with the Underground Resistance Fighters.

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
Let me put it to you this way. ANY citizen can make a citizen's arrest if they witness a felony in progress. They can act because they're there for the situation as it's happening. It's completely legal. Now, if that same person was to patrol the street looking for felonies to stop, then they become a vigilante. At this point they are now breaking the law, and breaking the law to enforce the law is never a good road to travel.

Here's a question for everyone. Do you know why so many bad guys end up back on the streets in Marvel? Because the criminals are still citizens, and are garunteed their rights. So, when the police come and get a person hanging from a webline with a note saying he's a purse snatcher, how are the police to prosecute this person? How many cases do you think have been thrown out because of lack of evidence, because the hero didn't secure something. Or lack of witnesses, because you know after Spidey webs a bad guy to a wall, the victim isn't going to stand by and wait for the police. Or because the crime scene has been contaminated, because the hero sure as hell didn't secure the scene afterwards. And it fall to the police and the DA to fix the mucked up situations the heroes keep creating over and over.

OK good point, fair enough 🙂

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
They are choosing what's right based on their personal opinions, over the opinions of the general population. Hell, if we're going to do that then Magneto is justified in every act he's taken. His motives are selfless, he has power, meh let him do as he pleases.

And here is the parting of opinions.

1) Many people argue that the law does not enforce what is actually considered to be morally acceptable by the general populace.
2) Well there are people out there who will probably argue that magneto is justified in what he is doing. (I'm not one of them, I take Xavier's view myself 🙂 )
3) There is the argument that we all have similar issue that everyone considers to be morally acceptable, yet for some reason the law does not always uphold this. Also the law is constantly changing. Many people's moral viewpoints are set in stone. This doesn't mean their viewpoints are wrong though 🙂

Therefore the law doesn't always uphold what is generally considered to be morally acceptable. It tries granted, but that's when they need some heroes to "actively patrol" for them. 🙂