Originally posted by Mr.V
Ah yes, the man who creates a machine able to locate every mutant being on the planet cant build a paper airplane 😐 sure.
He didnt built it by himself, Magneto helped him. Has he constructed something else of that magnitude? NO. He is smart but not in the same level as Reed, Doom or even Tony.
Originally posted by Darth Vicious
He didnt built it by himself, Magneto helped him. Has he constructed something else of that magnitude? NO. He is smart but not in the same level as Reed, Doom or even Tony.
Magneto probably helped him in the same way a child helps their parents build something. The parents don't really want the hindering kids there, so they just ask them to hold the tools 🙂
Oh and I agree that Xavier isn't near Richard's, Pym's or Stark's level of intellect, however I would put him in the top ten in the MU........
Originally posted by Darth Vicious
I object to Spideys decision because to me is not a desicion he wouldve chosen. I feel that he was being pressure by the promise he made Tony, by Aunt Mays comments and more importantly by all the bad things that couldve happened if he didnt, whcih Tony explained in great detail. Would I stop buying Spidey comics? since i only buy AMS I would say no, I wont stop buying comics.
I disagree. One of the main reasons he had an identity in the first place was to hide his identity as an entertainer so that his aunt wouldn't find out. Later it came out of a need to protect his loved ones. Well, Aunt May knows his identity and her and MJ live in Stark Tower. I'd say that takes care of his objections. Besides Spidey is always struggling to do the right thing, thats who he is. He really feels now that since his family is safe that this is the right thing to do. I was upset at first, and really shocked, but looking back I ssee this as a natural progression of the character
Originally posted by BlaqChaos
He's always getting beaten by somebody, doesn't mean anything. As far as Stark's actions, people are demonizing him because we live in an age when people no longer believe in their government; thus any side the government wants in this must be the wrong side, and anyone who sides with the government must be bad. Stop looking for a "right side" and a "wrong side" in this because there isn't any.We saw in CW#2 that Stark was saying to himself that he hopes that they are doing the right thing, no one in this whole thing is truely right or wrong. Cap is advocating a violent protest against a federal law, there are better ways to protest than resorting to violence. Tony is supporting a piece of legislation that takes away a some civil liberties. I keep championing Tony's side, because no one else will even stop to look at it objectively. Do you REALLY think a 15 year old kid knows enough about the world to make life and death decisions for innocent lives? He may mean well, but so did Speedball. So did Magog when he and his guys caused the nuclear holocaust that costs millions of lives in Kingdom Come. It takes more than just "good intentions" to do what's right.
And many of you aren't looking at the bigger picture of Spidey revealing his ID. You only think "Ooh, now every bad guys going to be after May and MJ, when the fact is most of them probably won't. Osborn could've had May taken out dozens of times over the years, so could Venom, but they prefer to strike at the man himself, not his family. The bigger issue is how will this effect his normal life. Remember, he works as a grade-school science teacher. Imagine being a student and finding out that he was your teacher. Imagine being a principal and finding out that you're employing a superhero. Do you keep him on, do you fire him, what do you do? How will people like Flash Thompson, who love Spidey but hate Parker, react? The "let's go attack May and MJ" thing is old, and Marvel knows it. They won't center all their stories around that when there's so many more interesting stories to tell.
As for Stark, WHY do you think he's evil? He's trying to save lives, and he's doing it the best way he sees to do it. Does that make him a "Judas" cause if it does you damned well better call Spidey a Benedict Arnold when he switches sides. Tony's only concern is curbing the number of civilian casualties. If that means he has to give up some of his rights to do so, and that's what he chooses, that makes him noble and selfless, not evil.
(Oh, and as far as the question of has Patriot caused the deaths of over 600 people, the answer is no. He - and his other YA allies - caused the deaths of over 3 billion by accidentally altering time. Luckly Cap and friends were able to restore the normal time line. But I bet THAT never made the news. Patroit and frieds weren't going to restore the timeline, because they didn't want to loose their friend, Iron Lad; and if left to them it's no telling how the MU would currently be.)
In the end, is the SRA the answer to the problem? No. Eventually, it will lead to a state where the civil liberties of anyone with power are stripped away.
Is allowing the heroes to continue unchecked the answer? No. Eventually, it will lead to a state similar to DC's Kingdom Come where superpowered youths run the planet and millions of innocents keep dying in their crossfire.
A mid-way point must be reached, and until one side or the other gives some ground, the situation will only continue.
Long, but I agree. I'm sure that most persons who are against the SRA aren't being objective. They just see it the big bad government trying to mess with our heroes. I certainly can't speak for everyone but I won't wouldn't want to live in a world where any kid who discovers they have powers but doesn't even understand how they work or how to use them can throw on spandex and try to save lives. Good intention...you know the rest. Don't even look at the Stanford thing, what happens if some super strong person runs through your house or flattens your car? What if some energy wielder powers up but in the process knocks out some generator to a hospital and knocks out the life support? Do you really to tell me that just cause that person was trying to catch a bank robber means that they shouldn't be held responsible for the lives lost? Now I'm saying that Tony is right for going about things the way he is, I'm just trying to show that he does have a point.
BTW, don't knock Bendis. Anyone who reads his work can tell you that he does not leave many things hanging. Fact is he and Millar were planning for a while and he let Millar pick some of his stuff to use in Civil War. Fabien and JMS did the same I believe.
Originally posted by marvelprince
Long, but I agree. I'm sure that most persons who are against the SRA aren't being objective. They just see it the big bad government trying to mess with our heroes. I certainly can't speak for everyone but I won't wouldn't want to live in a world where any kid who discovers they have powers but doesn't even understand how they work or how to use them can throw on spandex and try to save lives. Good intention...you know the rest. Don't even look at the Stanford thing, what happens if some super strong person runs through your house or flattens your car? What if some energy wielder powers up but in the process knocks out some generator to a hospital and knocks out the life support? Do you really to tell me that just cause that person was trying to catch a bank robber means that they shouldn't be held responsible for the lives lost? Now I'm saying that Tony is right for going about things the way he is, I'm just trying to show that he does have a point.BTW, don't knock Bendis. Anyone who reads his work can tell you that he does not leave many things hanging. Fact is he and Millar were planning for a while and he let Millar pick some of his stuff to use in Civil War. Fabien and JMS did the same I believe.
I agree with what you say and I'm sure Captain America even agrees with that, but the point is the way Tony goes about solving these issues. Neither Cap or Iron-man want inexperienced youths killing hundreds of people, its just they don't agree on how to solve the situation. 🙂 Tony thinks the Superhuman registration act and using villains to do the job is the way to go, Cap disagrees 🙂
Quicksilver is an adult that had been on the job for years when he made his bad decision that changed the world. Patriot and the other YAs are kids who had been on the job for weeks when they made their bad decision that destroyed the world. Yes, experianced adults make bad choices too, but an inexperienced child is FAR more likly to make a bad call that will cost lives than an experianced adult. Children have no place on the streets fighting crime; powers or no powers, its wrong.
Actually I don't even think that Quicksilver should be used as an example. It wasn't due to inexperience that he changed the world. He knew full well what he was doing and was absolutely comfortable with it. He would go to any lengths to keep his sister safe and in House of M he did. Thats not exactly the same as accidently blowing up a bunch of people
Originally posted by BlaqChaos
Quicksilver is an adult that had been on the job for [b]years when he made his bad decision that changed the world. Patriot and the other YAs are kids who had been on the job for weeks when they made their bad decision that destroyed the world. Yes, experianced adults make bad choices too, but an inexperienced child is FAR more likly to make a bad call that will cost lives than an experianced adult. Children have no place on the streets fighting crime; powers or no powers, its wrong. [/B]
bad decision that destroyed the world?
did i miss something between issue 1-11 of young avengers and civil war 1-2?
Originally posted by BlaqChaos
(Oh, and as far as the question of has Patriot caused the deaths of over 600 people, the answer is no. He - and his other YA allies - caused the deaths of over 3 billion by accidentally altering time. Luckly Cap and friends were able to restore the normal time line. But I bet THAT never made the news. Patroit and frieds weren't going to restore the timeline, because they didn't want to loose their friend, Iron Lad; and if left to them it's no telling how the MU would currently be.)
I think they were refering to this but the only problem I see with this is, Time travel, is like it never happened so it really doesnt count. Time travel is always a tricky subject. The first issues of YA was good because it showed the New Avengers trying to stop the inexperienced YA from whatever they were doing.
Originally posted by BlaqChaos
Quicksilver is an adult that had been on the job for [b]years when he made his bad decision that changed the world. Patriot and the other YAs are kids who had been on the job for weeks when they made their bad decision that destroyed the world. Yes, experianced adults make bad choices too, but an inexperienced child is FAR more likly to make a bad call that will cost lives than an experianced adult. Children have no place on the streets fighting crime; powers or no powers, its wrong. [/B]
Doesn't change the fact that the experienced adults and inexperienced kids still made similar mistakes. The pro-registration are willing to look down on the younger generation of heroes but I bet they don't like it when their mistakes as experienced heroes are brought up.
Personally I am not against Shield or whatever training heroes or even paying them to do a job they volunteered to do. But I am against them exposing their identities to the rest of the world.............And that's what they are doing. Its not gonna be a case of just the governement or shield knowing it, they won't stop until their is no such thing as a secret identity..........
