Civil War Report

Originally posted by marvelprince
So you are advocating blindly following orders. We would hope that the military wouldn't ever give questionable orders but if soldiers are ordered to shoot children on sight are you saying that they should cause they were ordered too?

Originally posted by willRules
In pretty much every classic spidey story, the majority said they didn't want him to help them. Yet he still chooses to save people from burning buildings and the like............

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Prison?

I dont think Civil War is in conjunction with Daredevil.

Plus when Cap, DD, Herc and Goliath were in the diner, they were all out of costume but were weariong secret disguises and appeared to be Matt. Red hair and all. Plus hopefully in the next issue of DD, he and Punisher are busting out of the joint so.......

So what about destroying a town that of an enemy that attacked the USA. The citizens of this particular town are apparent innocent, but there was an indication that someone in their city was implicated. If you're ordered to burn doen their city effectively leaving these people homeless cause of your actions even though there is nothing to prove they that in particular had anything to do with the attack. What do you? Follow orders and take away from these people the only home they've ever known, or do you take a stand?

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
When has the ends ever justified the means?

WW2?

Originally posted by jrodslam
I dont think Civil War is in conjunction with Daredevil.

Plus when Cap, DD, Herc and Goliath were in the diner, they were all out of costume but were weariong secret disguises and appeared to be Matt. Red hair and all. Plus hopefully in the next issue of DD, he and Punisher are busting out of the joint so.......

Originally posted by jrodslam
I dont think Civil War is in conjunction with Daredevil.

Plus when Cap, DD, Herc and Goliath were in the diner, they were all out of costume but were weariong secret disguises and appeared to be Matt. Red hair and all. Plus hopefully in the next issue of DD, he and Punisher are busting out of the joint so.......

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
And that's makes it right? When has the ends ever justified the means?

So now he registered and showed his identity to the world, he not only has to still save people from burning buildings, he has to worry about saving his family from supervillains as well, but its ok right because people now agree with what he does. 🙄

This is a true case of the end not justifying the means my friend. Classic spidey did what was right, despite him not being popular with the public. Current spidey still tries to do what is right but he has made his life even harder for himself and his family. At least he is popular now eh? 🙄

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Look at his eyes. Doesn't look blind to me. Plus the Civil War Bugle edition states that Matt is still in prison...

They could be contacts DC. Remember, if you put contacts on Matt, it doesnt matter cause he cant see anyways.

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
I just covered this a few post ago. The UCMJ states that a soldiers is not to obey an order that is clearly immoral or illegal. (And please don't try and say "Well, Cap thinks that the order is immoral" because the term said that the order has to be "[b]clearly immoral" and while I'm sure we can all agree that killing children is "clearly immoral" if the SRA was "clearly immoral" we wouldn't be having this debate and the Civil War wouldn't be happening. [/B]

😆 But what if Cap thinks the SRA is clearly immoral?? 🙄

Originally posted by marvelprince
So what about destroying a town that of an enemy that attacked the USA. The citizens of this particular town are apparent innocent, but there was an indication that someone in their city was implicated. If you're ordered to burn doen their city effectively leaving these people homeless cause of your actions even though there is nothing to prove they that in particular had anything to do with the attack. What do you? Follow orders and take away from these people the only home they've ever known, or do you take a stand?

Let say that the town was a village of about 100, and the enemy was a guy with a 50 megaton nuclear ICBM that he was about to launch at the heart of New York City in a matter of minutes. Would I destroy the the town? You're damned right I would.

Conversely, let's say that the town was a city of 50,000, and the enemy was a guy with a RPG who intended to launch it at a convoy of troops ferrying supplies next week. Would I destroy the town? No, of course not.

The concept is called "balanced response"

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
CW is in conjunction with DD. Marvel already confirmed it on their web-site.

Where at? I dont see it.

Originally posted by inamilist
WW2?

Originally posted by willRules
So now he registered and showed his identity to the world, he not only has to still save people from burning buildings, he has to worry about saving his family from supervillains as well, but its ok right because people now agree with what he does. 🙄

This is a true case of the end not justifying the means my friend. Classic spidey did what was right, despite him not being popular with the public. Current spidey still tries to do what is right but he has made his life even harder for himself and his family. At least he is popular now eh? 🙄

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
Let say that the town was a village of about 100, and the enemy was a guy with a 50 megaton nuclear ICBM that he was about to launch at the heart of New York City in a matter of minutes. Would I destroy the the town? You're damned right I would.

Ah I see, so in relation to civil war you are saying it is easier to impose this law the general populace of heroes than to stop the culprits?

and you were keen to tell me the end doesn't justify the means 🙄 how very contradictory of you 🙂

Originally posted by jrodslam
Where at? I dont see it.

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
A hero makes a conscious choice to put their family in danger the moment they decide to becoem a hero for the safety of the public. What's now being asked is that they increase the level of safety to the public while at the same decreasing the safty of their families. If the hero doesn't feel it's a fair trade, then they should stop being a hero, because they have other responsibilities that take precidence.

But the safety of the public isn't being altered, just their comfort. The only change in safety, is the lack of it for the heroes families. 🙂

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
Elaborate.

lol, im not terribly interested in a moral philosophical debate, just because of its relative nature, but...

We believe it is wrong to kill innocents

Nazi Germany is killing innocents

We kill MILLIONS of innocent german civilians in the attack on berlin alone, not to mention those killed in occupied territories

This victory was so important to our ideals of right and wrong that the innocent people WE killed (which we must see as wrong, since it is what we are opposed to the nazis for) are justified.

(by the our and we I am refering to the general populance of modern Western Democratic nations)

This is a REALLY complicated matter, but, in any situation where the sacrifice of one can lead to the greater good of the many is a situation where the end justifies the means (then you get into the whole relative what is greater, how great does something have to be, ect) Which is why i use WW2, since it is a really concrete example of us doing something immoral to create a moral end

Originally posted by willRules
Ah I see, so in relation to civil war you are saying it is easier to impose this law the general populace of heroes than to stop the culprits?

and you were keen to tell me the end doesn't justify the means 🙄 how very contradictory of you 🙂

Why is it no one gives me an answer when I ask them about groups like Power Pack? Do you trust that these adolecent pre-teens know enough about the world to be on the streets fighting crime?

The MU was slowly heading in a direction to be like the world of DC's Kingdom Come.

Originally posted by willRules
But the safety of the public isn't being altered, just their comfort. The only change in safety, is the lack of it for the heroes families. 🙂