Originally posted by BlaqChaosThe problem is all your examples can easily be used in different scenarios.
*Sigh*... "Fault" is most commonly used to describe why something accidentally took place. The criminal actions do not fit into this description, as they willfully and purposely commit their actions. The [b]"blame" is on Nitro. He is to blame for the tragedy, as he willfully and purposely blew himself up outside a school, taking the lives of hundreds. The "fault" is on Speedball. He is at fault because his actions directly led to Nitro blowing himself up outside a school, taking the lives of hundreds. [/B]
For instance say the Sex Offender moved into a large apartment complex and molested some child is it the Fault of the person who gave then the Apartment. You understand what I'm trying to say.
How many times are you gonna find a killer out in the wilderness hiding and with the element of surprise huh????????
Not many mostly they hide in crowded places like that. Nitro could have easily been hiding in the city. What if say Ironman came in hit Nitro for a loop when Nitro wasn't reading had him on the ground and then Nitro decided to explode?? In terms of someone being able to blow themselves up it isn't as simple as saying well knowing he would changes everything especially when demonstrating new power levels that no one knew about.
Originally posted by newjak86
The problem is all your examples can easily be used in different scenarios.For instance say the Sex Offender moved into a large apartment complex and molested some child is it the Fault of the person who gave then the Apartment. You understand what I'm trying to say.
How many times are you gonna find a killer out in the wilderness hiding and with the element of surprise huh????????
Not many mostly they hide in crowded places like that. Nitro could have easily been hiding in the city. What if say Ironman came in hit Nitro for a loop when Nitro wasn't reading had him on the ground and then Nitro decided to explode?? In terms of someone being able to blow themselves up it isn't as simple as saying well knowing he would changes everything especially when demonstrating new power levels that no one knew about.
So what're you saying? Since he's so unpredictable--since he can blow up any time--you might as well rush in without a plan?
Originally posted by H. S. 6What I'm saying is there is no easy way to deal with someone like that I mean look how well Wolverine and his SHIELD squad did when the confronted Nitro they got blown the hell up and SHIELD is supposed to be the best.
So what're you saying? Since he's so unpredictable--since he can blow up any time--you might as well rush in without a plan?
You can blame the NWs for maybe being reckless the point is. They were in a split decision moment when they got spotted they chose one route. They weren't exactly reckless with how they were taking them down. They were doing quite well putting down the other villians quite effectivily. Even had Nitro on the ropes before he went BOOM.
You know it is one of those instances in history that either go bad or good. They subdue all of them they are heros but what happened did and lot of people died but to place the Fault squarely on heir shoulders simply for sake of having someone to blame is wrong.
Originally posted by newjak86The person who gave him the apartment? No. But someone, somewhere along the line dropped the ball in keeping tabs on the guy. Someone, somewhere between him getting out of jail, and him molesting the child in the apartment building is the person who was an accessory to the event because either through their actions or inactions they facilitated the criminal in being able to do what he did. It could've been stopped before it happened, just like Nitro blowing himself up.
The problem is all your examples can easily be used in different scenarios.For instance say the Sex Offender moved into a large apartment complex and molested some child is it the Fault of the person who gave then the Apartment. You understand what I'm trying to say.
Originally posted by newjak86Nitro's increased power level doesn't even enter into it. When Namorita slammed him into the bus full of kids next to the schoolyard, even w/o his new power level, his explosion was either going to critically injure or kill someone.
How many times are you gonna find a killer out in the wilderness hiding and with the element of surprise huh????????
Not many mostly they hide in crowded places like that. Nitro could have easily been hiding in the city. What if say Ironman came in hit Nitro for a loop when Nitro wasn't reading had him on the ground and then Nitro decided to explode?? In terms of someone being able to blow themselves up it isn't as simple as saying well knowing he would changes everything especially when demonstrating new power levels that no one knew about.
The NW's suspected that the criminals were hold up in a house in a residential area next to a school. ALL TRAININED LAW ENFORCEMENT TEAMS know that when scoping out a target, there is a chance you or your team may be made. That's why when they scope out a target, they come prepared in case the $h1t hits the fan. The NW's failed to do this, and that mistake cost the lives of hundreds of people. And when Speedball made his comment on camera about "ratings" that let the public know that the primary concern of the team leader of this unit was not public safety.
Originally posted by newjak86No, the NW's made a mistake. Plain and simple. You say "They weren't exactly reckless with how they were taking them down." yet we see Namorita slam Nitro into the side of a school bus. A SCHOOL BUS! You don't think that was reckless? We hear the team leader talking of "ratings" instead of formulating a plan moments before the battle. Naw, that's not reckless. It would be different if in the "split decision moment" that you speak of, the team leader had said "No, there's too many innocents around." then they were spotted and engaged, but his mind was on their ratings. At no moment prior to the attack or during the attack did he nor any member of his team show any regard for the civilians in the local area.
What I'm saying is there is no easy way to deal with someone like that I mean look how well Wolverine and his SHIELD squad did when the confronted Nitro they got blown the hell up and SHIELD is supposed to be the best.You can blame the NWs for maybe being reckless the point is. They were in a split decision moment when they got spotted they chose one route. They weren't exactly reckless with how they were taking them down. They were doing quite well putting down the other villians quite effectivily. Even had Nitro on the ropes before he went BOOM.
You know it is one of those instances in history that either go bad or good. They subdue all of them they are heros but what happened did and lot of people died but to place the Fault squarely on heir shoulders simply for sake of having someone to blame is wrong.
Originally posted by BlaqChaos
*Sigh*... "Fault" is most commonly used to describe why something accidentally took place. The criminal actions do not fit into this description, as they willfully and purposely commit their actions. The [b]"blame" is on Nitro. He is to blame for the tragedy, as he willfully and purposely blew himself up outside a school, taking the lives of hundreds. The "fault" is on Speedball. He is at fault because his actions directly led to Nitro blowing himself up outside a school, taking the lives of hundreds. [/B]
Not according to the on-line dictionary ❌
Originally posted by www.dictionary.com
FaultA character weakness, especially a minor one.
Something that impairs or detracts from physical perfection; a defect.
A mistake; an error.
A minor offense or misdeed.
Responsibility for a mistake or an offense; culpability.
Originally posted by www.dictionary.com
Blame
To hold responsible.
To find fault with; censure.
To place responsibility for (something): blamed the crisis on poor planning.n.
The state of being responsible for a fault or error; culpability.
Censure; condemnation.
But anyway the point is that Nitro chose to kill those people, not speedball. call it blame/fault or whatever, Nitro was the one who took their lives. Speedball was careless granted ✅ But he didn't kill them, Nitro chose to do that ✅
Originally posted by BlaqChaosThis makes no sense because Sex Offender was realsed him molesting a child is someone else's fault. He could just as easily pick up a child coming home from chool on the street in a car. Therefore is it the Car Dealers Fault is it the principles Fault. Is it the parents Fault. Think about people do bad things it doesn't always lead to someone being stupid as the cause.
The person who gave him the apartment? No. But someone, somewhere along the line dropped the ball in keeping tabs on the guy. Someone, somewhere between him getting out of jail, and him molesting the child in the apartment building is the person who was an accessory to the event because either through their actions or inactions they facilitated the criminal in being able to do what he did. It could've been stopped before it happened, just like Nitro blowing himself up.
Nitro's increased power level doesn't even enter into it. When Namorita slammed him into the bus full of kids next to the schoolyard, even w/o his new power level, his explosion was either going to critically injure or kill someone.Last time I checked when fighting a Super powered being it isn't always as simple as saying well ok I'm gonna hit him here instead of there. that flawed thinking by saying she purposely hit him into the Bus.The NW's suspected that the criminals were hold up in a house in a residential area next to a school. ALL TRAININED LAW ENFORCEMENT TEAMS know that when scoping out a target, there is a chance you or your team may be made. That's why when they scope out a target, they come prepared in case the $h1t hits the fan. The NW's failed to do this, and that mistake cost the lives of hundreds of people. And when Speedball made his comment on camera about "ratings" that let the public know that the primary concern of the team leader of this unit was not public safety.
Next they are Super Heros not An assualt squad their powers are how they are ready when as you say the Sh*t hits the fane and thats exactly what they were doing they got spotted made a choice and used their powers.
No, the NW's made a mistake. Plain and simple. You say "They weren't exactly reckless with how they were taking them down." yet we see Namorita slam Nitro into the side of a school bus. A SCHOOL BUS! You don't think that was reckless? We hear the team leader talking of "ratings" instead of formulating a plan moments before the battle. Naw, that's not reckless. It would be different if in the "split decision moment" that you speak of, the team leader had said "No, there's too many innocents around." then they were spotted and engaged, but his mind was on their ratings. At no moment prior to the attack or during the attack did he nor any member of his team show any regard for the civilians in the local area.Once again since when do you get to choose when fighting someone when and where you are hotting them. Namorita hit him and it just so happened that a school bus was there. I doubt she was thinking lets hit the superpowered bomb into a bus full of kids.
Yes it would have been different the Villains would have gotten on all their stuff and been ready for a fight adn Nitro probably would have blown up anyways just to cover their tails because as we all know Super Villians when seeing retreating Heros automatically just leave right.
I mean for everything your saying they were working as a team. they were beating them before they had a chance to get a ready. A single mistake happens and all of a sudden it was completely reckless and blatant disregard for human life. A single mistake as you know can happen on any police raid whether they engage or not. Criminals are as likely to take hostages adn bolt down as run. even if you engage you know as well as I do nothing is full proof a stray bullet coming from a house can as easily hit a child across the street as what Nitro did.
Once again they may have made a mistake no one knows if retreating would have changed anything no one knows what if instead of punching him Namorita simply put him in a sleeper hold.
The point is a number of people in real life trained or not could have come to the same decision and had the same outcome. to try and place blame squarely on the NWs is wrong as any number of other things could have happened in the same situation both good and bad.
Originally posted by willRulesI have a question for you. A General looking to add another glorious victory to his career gives an order for his men to attack an enemy. The General did not ensure the area was clear of non-combatants first, and in the crossfire many civilians are killed. Why is it that the military holds the General accountable for the deaths of those civilians? He didn't kill anyone.
Not according to the on-line dictionary ❌But anyway the point is that Nitro chose to kill those people, not speedball. call it blame/fault or whatever, Nitro was the one who took their lives. Speedball was careless granted ✅ But he didn't kill them, Nitro chose to do that ✅
the thing thats really grinding my gears is the fact that even if he doesnt wanna accept even an iota of resposibility he STILL could make things a little better by making a public statement in a round about way that what happened to those kids was f ****ed up. and he's sorry even tho he wasnt the one that blew up. the fact that he's taking this out of mind out of sight view of the event just makes me very ok with the fact that they are making an example outta him
Originally posted by manjaroYeah that is true though even though I don't think the blame should rest on his shoulders a little compassion would be nice from him.
the thing thats really grinding my gears is the fact that even if he doesnt wanna accept even an iota of resposibility he STILL could make things a little better by making a public statement in a round about way that what happened to those kids was f ****ed up. and he's sorry even tho he wasnt the one that blew up. the fact that he's taking this out of mind out of sight view of the event just makes me very ok with the fact that they are making an example outta him
Originally posted by newjak86
This makes no sense because Sex Offender was realsed him molesting a child is someone else's fault. He could just as easily pick up a child coming home from chool on the street in a car. Therefore is it the Car Dealers Fault is it the principles Fault. Is it the parents Fault. Think about people do bad things it doesn't always lead to someone being stupid as the cause.
All convicted sex offender are required to register themselves when they move to a new area. If a convicted CSO was able to move there and no one knew or was notified, SOMEONE dropped the ball.
Originally posted by newjak86Well check again. Spider-man does it all the time, and so does Captain America.
Last time I checked when fighting a Super powered being it isn't always as simple as saying well ok I'm gonna hit him here instead of there.
Originally posted by newjak86No, that logical thinking says she didn't care where she hit him to.
that flawed thinking by saying she purposely hit him into the Bus.
Originally posted by newjak86So you're saying that they meant to go there with the intent to engage a group of superpowered criminals in a battle with a school full of children next door. They're always ready, right? They knew a school was next door, right? They were intending to have a dramatic fight (for ratings sakes), right?
Next they are Super Heros not An assualt squad their powers are how they are ready when as you say the Sh*t hits the fane and thats exactly what they were doing they got spotted made a choice and used their powers.
Originally posted by newjak86Take a look at the latest issue of Spider-man. Captain America when he wanted to fight Spider-man and where he was hitting him.
Once again since when do you get to choose when fighting someone when and where you are hotting them.
Originally posted by newjak86No, she wasn't thinking, period. She was thinking about the safety of the children next door which should have been her PRIMARY concern. That's why the police motto was changed from "To serve and Protect" to "To Protect and Serve"; to highlight that protection of the innocent ALWAYS COMES FIRST. What, you think they didn't notice the HUGE building with kids outside of it? Hell, she's lucky that the bus WAS there. If it wasn't she would've hit him into the middle of the schoolyard. Either way, THEY KNEW THE SCHOOL WAS THERE.
Namorita hit him and it just so happened that a school bus was there. I doubt she was thinking lets hit the superpowered bomb into a bus full of kids.
Originally posted by newjak86No, it wouldn't have been better. The fact that people died, only serves to illustrate the point. They went there with the intent to fight and capture the criminals, taking no regard to the lives of the children outside. Even if they had won and no one had been hurt, they would still be wrong.
Yes it would have been different the Villains would have gotten on all their stuff and been ready for a fight adn Nitro probably would have blown up anyways just to cover their tails because as we all know Super Villians when seeing retreating Heros automatically just leave right.
Originally posted by newjak86Winning or losing doesn't matter. First and foremost, being a hero is about protecting the innocent. Catching and taking down the bad guy is secondary. They knew the school was next door, but did nothing but disregard it's presense; before the battle and during it.
I mean for everything your saying they were working as a team. they were beating them before they had a chance to get a ready.
Originally posted by newjak86There were two mistakes. First, the team leader thinking about ratings instead of thinking about the innocent lives surrounding them. Second, focusing on taking down the bad guy and making a good show of it, as opposed to focusing on how to best protect the innocent people in the area.
A single mistake happens and all of a sudden it was completely reckless and blatant disregard for human life.
Originally posted by newjak86Yes, mistakes happen all the time. And each time one happens, an investigation takes place to see what was the cause of the mistake. Was it negigence (as is the case with the NW's) or something else.
A single mistake as you know can happen on any police raid whether they engage or not.
Originally posted by newjak86Again, that's not the point. The point is what were they focused on, protecting the innocent, or catching the bad guys?
Once again they may have made a mistake no one knows if retreating would have changed anything no one knows what if instead of punching him Namorita simply put him in a sleeper hold.
Originally posted by newjak86WRONG. A trained and experianced team would have seen to the safety and security of the innocents in the area prior to go to that house.
The point is a number of people in real life trained or not could have come to the same decision and had the same outcome. to try and place blame squarely on the NWs is wrong as any number of other things could have happened in the same situation both good and bad.
Originally posted by BlaqChaos
All convicted sex offender are [b]required to register themselves when they move to a new area. If a convicted CSO was able to move there and no one knew or was notified, SOMEONE dropped the ball.Well check again. Spider-man does it all the time, and so does Captain America. No, that logical thinking says she didn't care where she hit him to.
So you're saying that they meant to go there with the intent to engage a group of superpowered criminals in a battle with a school full of children next door. They're always ready, right? They knew a school was next door, right? They were intending to have a dramatic fight (for ratings sakes), right?
Take a look at the latest issue of Spider-man. Captain America when he wanted to fight Spider-man and where he was hitting him.
No, she wasn't thinking, period. She was thinking about the safety of the children next door which should have been her PRIMARY concern. That's why the police motto was changed from "To serve and Protect" to "To Protect and Serve"; to highlight that protection of the innocent ALWAYS COMES FIRST. What, you think they didn't notice the HUGE building with kids outside of it? Hell, she's lucky that the bus WAS there. If it wasn't she would've hit him into the middle of the schoolyard. Either way, THEY KNEW THE SCHOOL WAS THERE.
No, it wouldn't have been better. The fact that people died, only serves to illustrate the point. They went there with the intent to fight and capture the criminals, taking no regard to the lives of the children outside. Even if they had won and no one had been hurt, they would still be wrong.
Winning or losing doesn't matter. First and foremost, being a hero is about protecting the innocent. Catching and taking down the bad guy is secondary. They knew the school was next door, but did nothing but disregard it's presense; before the battle and during it.
There were two mistakes. First, the team leader thinking about ratings instead of thinking about the innocent lives surrounding them. Second, focusing on taking down the bad guy and making a good show of it, as opposed to focusing on how to best protect the innocent people in the area.
Yes, mistakes happen all the time. And each time one happens, an investigation takes place to see what was the cause of the mistake. Was it negigence (as is the case with the NW's) or something else.
Again, that's not the point. The point is what were they focused on, protecting the innocent, or catching the bad guys?
WRONG. A trained and experianced team would have seen to the safety and security of the innocents in the area prior to go to that house. [/B]
Bingo. 👆
Originally posted by BlaqChaos
I have a question for you. A General looking to add another glorious victory to his career gives an order for his men to attack an enemy. The General did not ensure the area was clear of non-combatants first, and in the crossfire many civilians are killed. Why is it that the military holds the General accountable for the deaths of those civilians? He didn't kill anyone.
Well in that case it would be the general's fault, but that's assuming the soldiers didn't know about the civilians, if they did and still chose to open fire it's the soldiers fault. Nitro chose to kill those people which makes it his fault, he could choose what to do and he chose to murder ✅