The LT runs the Guantlet

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Vertigo is Non-Cannon For the DCU. YOu didn't have to tell me that. I know that. Vertigo is cannon unto vertigo. Even if there are a billion conflicting stories, each Story would be cannon unto itself. Just like in DC. There are a billion conflicting stories in the elseworlds, yet they each represent an actual and true reality. Apparently Neither of you see it the way that I do. I'm not trying to convice you to see it my way. Every story that reflects the established status quo would be cannon unto the greater Verigo Mythos. Every Story that does not is a self contained connical Story unto itself.

Originally posted by Juntai
And I'm telling you, these characters aren't multiversal characters crossing over or anything close to it. DC has it's own versions of these characters.
Vertigo stories are primarily just DC characters, and a random writer took a character and ran with it, in his own way, telling his own story, away from DC continuity.
No crossing over takes place.

It's still a cannonical story unto itself. There is still only ONE Spectre. SO every time the Spectre appears, it's cannon unto the Spectre. It still connecting them to the DCU. There is no conclusive way to show your opinion in this matter. Since the Spectre appears every where he wants to and in myriad fashion. He could have differnt entire stories and still be the same Spectre. Each Reality would hold for him a differnt Story each valid and cannon unto themselves. Besides, DC also said forver that any story outside the Main DCU was made up and just a story. And look what happened. Every single publication from DC ended up being an actual reality.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It's still a cannonical story unto itself. There is still only one Spectre. SO every tim ehte Spectre appears, it's cannon unto the Spectre. It still connecting them to the DCU.

Originally posted by Juntai
Are you speaking of a specific instance? Because Spectre hasn't appeared in Lucifer.

What are you talking about? I mentioned earlier that Lucifer shaped a universe by himself, and you said he didn't. I know what I read. He took Michael's power and shaped his own universe. you then said that Lucifer didnt' shape the universe on his own. So I really don't know what you are getting at or trying to do.

Originally posted by Juntai
Are you speaking of a specific instance? Because Spectre hasn't appeared in Lucifer.
You're making no points, only theories.
You're doing nothing to actually support any of this.
I've been throwing the proof in your face of how different the imprints are, that the DC and Vertigo counterparts aren't even the same characters.
This is why King Kandy was taking shots at you.

The Spectre is still the Spectre. He's still the wrath of God. He's still Multiversal. The Story's that are linked to him or anyone linked to him, is cannonical unto the character but the story itself is cannon only to itself. I don't know how many times I can say that. But as always, you can throw proof in my face, but I haven't seen any. Show me Proof that The Spectre isn't the same.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The Spectre is still the Spectre. He's still the wrath of God. He's still Multiversal. The Story's that are linked to him or anyone linked to him, is cannonical unto the character but the story itself is cannon only to itself. I don't know how many times I can say that. But as always, you can throw proof in my face, but I haven't seen any. Show me Proof that The Spectre isn't the same.

You asked why Lucifer and Vertigo were not canon, I've told you repeatedly, with proof.

Originally posted by Juntai
It may be true, but that doesn't go anywhere towards proving your point here... Lucifer and Micheal have both appeared in HIS book, not the other way. DC has it's OWN versions of the these characters not linked to Vertigo. Vertigo and it's characters and their feats and it's stories are NOT canon to the DCU, it's characters, or its stories.

You asked why Lucifer and Vertigo were not canon, I've told you repeatedly, with proof.

Vertigo is cannon. Each time it's written, everything that happens within that book is cannon. if it refers to another book, they are linked to the same universe. When it does, it's a book unto itself until linked to somethign else. You can't say vertigo is non-cannon and then some other writer decides to take a story about swamp thing, and link it to the GEb. Now you have Two different stories operating in the same universe. Are they both now just non cannon? NO they are non cannon to the DCU. As far as Lucifer and Michael Go, They dont' really change my order of the list. The Spectre still holds the same place against Michael. He still can't beat Micheal, which was the entire point. But he most certainly can put up a good fight.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Vertigo is Non-Cannon For the DCU. YOu didn't have to tell me that. I know that. Vertigo is cannon unto vertigo. Even if there are a billion conflicting stories, each Story would be cannon unto itself. Just like in DC. There are a billion conflicting stories in the elseworlds, yet they each represent an actual and true reality. Apparently Neither of you see it the way that I do. I'm not trying to convice you to see it my way. Every story that reflects the established status quo would be cannon unto the greater Verigo Mythos. Every Story that does not is a self contained connical Story unto itself. Every else world's tale is a cannonical universe unto itself. Mr. mxy once destroyed every DCU ever. Even Vertigo. Mxy once Took the Ultimator to visit Morpheus for all eternity. These sotry cannonize Vertigo as an alternate Reality. I really can't put it any other way.

He certainly wasn't the same individual who was in Vertigo, that much should be quite obvious, simply by the differences presented in the characters themselves...

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Vertigo is cannon. Each time it's written, everything that happens within that book is cannon. if it refers to another book, they are linked to the same universe. When it does, it's a book unto itself until linked to somethign else. You can't say vertigo is cannon and then some other writer decides to take a story about swamp thing, and link it to the GEb. Now you have Two different stories operating in the same universe. Are they both now just non cannon? NO they are non cannon to the DCU. As far as Lucifer and Michael Go, They dont' really change my order of the list. The Spectre still holds the same place against Michael. He still can't beat Micheal, which was the entire point. But he most certainly can put up a good fight.

You still haven't gone anywhere with this.

Yes, you can use a Vertigo character and his feats on the forum.
No. Vertigo and it's characters and stories are not canonical towards DC and it's counterparts. When you see a Vertigo character in DC, it is the DCU version of the character, not associated with other books.
Vertigo likewise does not seem to have a continuity. It's not a universe. It's a collection of good adult stories.

i think you both raise good points. i see both sides, actually. the characterization may be different but if spectre is in the dcu, it IS the same spectre in vertigo, with the same status and power isn't it jun?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Ur wrong. Mr. Mxy did more on panel than the pre retcon beyonder ever did. Mxy destroyed and recreated the entire DCU omniverse. Not just the multiverse, but DCu's outside the main DCu multiverse.

The Ultimator made mxy his ***** and was able to destroy higher realities of beings more powerful than mxy.

Micheal is God's power
The heart of the universe is God's power
The Source is God's power.
Lucifer is equal to Michael.

The beyonder is right where he belongs on this list.

👇

Dude, you are deluded. Pre Retconned Beyonder is WAY MORE POWERFUL than Abraxis, and at the VERY LEAST goes under TOAA or Presence....

*waits for Mr. Master to make nvrbeenwthagirl bend over *

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
👇

Dude, you are deluded. Pre Retconned Beyonder is WAY MORE POWERFUL than Abraxis, and at the VERY LEAST goes under TOAA or Presence....

*waits for Mr. Master to make nvrbeenwthagirl bend over *

LT >> IG >> UN >> Mutli-verse

If you destroy the weilder of the IG you've shown more on panel than destroying the Multi-verse.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Urizen is right, to be more to have a feat like neutralize the power of the Ultimate Nullifier is better than have a feat like destroying the Multi-verse.

LT >> IG >> UN >> Mutli-verse

If you destroy the weilder of the IG you've shown more on panel than destroying the Multi-verse.

UM no. that is called marvelism buddy. Since there is no god damned Ig in the DCU. Frankly put, No one has ever done more on panel than MXy. And only the Ultimator has actually punked Mxy. I put the Power of God over Mxy becuz nothing can beat the Infinite. You guys have your damned Marvel Hierarchy and you stick with it. When time against, peopel have presented valid arguments that the Ig is not more powreful than the UN, and time again, you can't put DC characters in your hierarchy anyway you feel like it just becuz it makes your characters look better. FEat wise, Mxy has the everyone on ur list beat. The LT, IG, UN, and even the preretconned beyonder. I know you don't like it. It's too bad.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
No one has ever done more on panel than MXy.

I disagree.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I put the Power of God over Mxy becuz nothing can beat the Infinite.

If Mxy really took out what would be equal to a Marvel Omni-verse in DC as you say, I don't see how anyone would be above him in DC

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
peopel have presented valid arguments that the Ig is not more powreful than the UN,

I think not.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
FEat wise, Mxy has the everyone on ur list beat. The LT, IG, UN, and even the preretconned beyonder.

I disagree,

LT is more powerful than Mxy, as is the IG, he may stalemate the UN,

and Beyonder was above them all,

and since you equate what Mxy says,
"No more Infinite Earths, no more Alternate Universes"

to an Omni-verse, so since the Marvel Multi-verse was everything in 1984 through 1986, it's an Omni-verse too. (the only other Reality was the Beyond Realm, and Beyonder was ALL of that too.

Beyonder has done more:

Beyonder erasing Death from the Multi-verse (= Omni-verse)

Beyonder making other beings more powerful than the Multi-verse (= Omni-verse) like Dazzler.

Beyonder giving Rachel Summers the Power of the Phoenix Force and BEYOND?

Beyonder shattering the Molecule Man's protective Dome which was stronger than the Multi-verse (= Omni-verse) COMBINED?

Beyonder temporarily becoming the CONCEPT of Death?

Beyonder coming into TOAA's Multi-verse (= Omni-verse) and taking it over like nothing?

Beyonder CREATING an INFINITE UNIVERSE (= Quintillions of times more Infinite than the Omni-verse) from scratch

Originally posted by Mr Master
I disagree.

If Mxy really took out what would be equal to a Marvel Omni-verse in DC as you say, I don't see how anyone would be above him in DC

I think not.

I disagree,

LT is more powerful than Mxy, as is the IG, he may stalemate the UN,

and Beyonder was above them all,

and since you equate what Mxy says,
"No more Infinite Earths, no more Alternate Universes"

to an Omni-verse, so since the Marvel Multi-verse was everything in 1984 through 1986, it's an Omni-verse too. (the only other Reality was the Beyond Realm, and Beyonder was ALL of that too.

Beyonder has done more:

Beyonder erasing Death from the Multi-verse (= Omni-verse)

Beyonder making other beings more powerful than the Multi-verse (= Omni-verse) like Dazzler.

Beyonder giving Rachel Summers the Power of the Phoenix Force and BEYOND?

Beyonder shattering the Molecule Man's protective Dome which was stronger than the Multi-verse (= Omni-verse) COMBINED?

Beyonder temporarily becoming the CONCEPT of Death?

Beyonder coming into TOAA's Multi-verse (= Omni-verse) and taking it over like nothing?

Beyonder CREATING an INFINITE UNIVERSE (= Quintillions of times more Infinite than the Omni-verse) from scratch

All those numbers mean little with no quantifiable definition to them. All of those feats your naming were all done or could be done by mxy. Your naming elements of story. I could say mxy has done more since he beat the Spectre, wiped out the DCU ANIMated multiverse, and blah blah blah. You can't compare company specific feats and make it as if it were this aweinspiring thing. I could say well Superman beats Thor becuz he can withstand the Omega effect and thor cannot. And that would be just stupid. You have to use common feats. Mxy erasing several Multiverses and visiting the real world is something that can be common. Using a character specific like becoming death or some rediculous number some writer came up with doesn't exactly lend itself to a subjective comparitive when that is a story specific element. In the Grand scope of things, Mxy did more on panel than the beyonder Ever did. When you take out silly little company specific things that you try to use as some gage of what is powerful and what is not.

The Living Tribunal is more powerful than the Spectre. They have been allies. They also conducted the whole Marvel vs. DC fiasco

Mxy never visited the "Real World".

Unless you want to make the argument that he's actualy somewhere out there, in which case I'd have to consider you insane.

meh in worlds funniest myx beat the beyonder with batmite as well as destroyed the multiverse, even the dimension he came from was destroyed, beyonder said he could destroy the dimension too, and at the end of secret wars 2 it said he had power greater then the multiverse combined times a few million yeah alot of power, and LT has not been proven to stronger then the spectre, his power fluctuates anyway.

Originally posted by Mider999
meh in worlds funniest myx beat the beyonder with batmite as well as destroyed the multiverse, even the dimension he came from was destroyed, beyonder said he could destroy the dimension too, and at the end of secret wars 2 it said he had power greater then the multiverse combined times a few million yeah alot of power, and LT has not been proven to stronger then the spectre, his power fluctuates anyway.

They aren't even from the same company...

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
All those numbers mean little with no quantifiable definition to them.

I wanna dance with somebody.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
All of those feats your naming were all done or could be done by mxy.

Speculation.

Mxy has never done most of those feats, and Mxy has NEVER created an Infinite Universe like the Beyonder did.

A Universe that was an Ocean, while the Marvel Reality was a drop of Water in comparison.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Your naming elements of story.

I'm naming On Panel feats.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I could say mxy has done more since he beat the Spectre,

This would mean nothing, since Beyonder shut down the LT function.

Supposedly LT=Spectre

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
wiped out the DCU ANIMated multiverse, and blah blah blah.

So you say,

Mxy only said,

"No more Infinite Earths, no more Alternate Universes" when naming specifics, (sounds like a Multi-verse)

A Multi-verse = countless Alternate Realities.

he never said other Multi-verses or anything of the like.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You can't compare company specific feats and make it as if it were this aweinspiring thing.

Uhhm, yes you can compare feats, that's the only way to make an educated guess of who would win this hypothetical battle.

And Beyonder creating an Infinite Universe bigger than Marvel Trillions on top of Trillions of times,

yes that is aweinspiring, especially since Mxy has never done so.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I could say well Superman beats Thor becuz he can withstand the Omega effect and thor cannot. And that would be just stupid.

I don't see how this plays into what I posted as a reply.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You have to use common feats. Mxy erasing several Multiverses and visiting the real world is something that can be common.

pointandlaugh "Mxy erasing several Multiverses"

Prove where this is being said or shown.

Interesting how only Mxy's feats are "common" to you.

Cause yea, erasing Multi-verses and visiting the "Real Word" is "common" in Comics.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Using a character specific like becoming death or some rediculous number some writer came up with doesn't exactly lend itself to a subjective comparitive when that is a story specific element.

Nice try,

So a Comic Book character visiting the "Real World" falls under the category of "a not rediculous number that lends itself to a subjective comparitive?"

because of course, mixing Artistic Depictions with Photos of Real Live people is not a "story specific element" (that kind of mielda happens all the time...) 😏

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
In the Grand scope of things, Mxy did more on panel than the beyonder Ever did.

Well Mxy never created an Infinite Universe, bigger than the DC Reality.

So Beyonder has the more glorious feat.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
When you take out silly little company specific things that you try to use as some gage of what is powerful and what is not.

You mean like using Mxy entering the "Real World" as a feat?

Yea, I get what you mean.