The LT runs the Guantlet

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
IN the greater context of the characters, it's easy to distiguish what is cannon from what is absurd. Things that have characters who contantly appear with each other or in the established set hierarchy of the mythos would have to win out over some writer's absurdities. Since the Spectre is a being who is multiversal and can cross barriers, it would mean that any context with him would be cannonical when it comes to him, and the place of that being. Maybe not that universe in relation to DC, but to the characters themselves. FOr instance, The Lt is the same LT in any marvel Reality. Thus cannonizing his interaction with anyone he meets. These events may not be cannon for the 616, but they are cannon to the LT becuz he doesnot differentiate between realities. They are all places that he watches over. The Spectre is still the Wrath of God no matter what reality he is in, thus if He can stand up to the power of Michael, however briefly in one reality, He can stand up to it's equal in the other reality, which is the source. Tho we know he would still lose.

Originally posted by Juntai
What I'm saying is, by the sources, it's NOT a different reality but it's events make it non-canon.. Sandman was written into DC continuity[He's appeared multiple times, in the Green Arrow Flashback's to Sandman's first issue, his ruby being held by Dr Destiny, he's mentioned in the timeline]. Lucifer is part of Sandman's continuity. Lucifer's events are not part of DC continuity. It's far too much to keep ahold of.
Thus, only the events that have happened in DC comics, are the ones that are canon to DC.
The rest, are merely good stories.

I have been saying the same thing. The Characters are Cannonical to DC characters that they interact with, but the events of grand scale are non cannon to each other's reality. For instance, Donna Troy remembers all of the Crisis world's and the IC. for her, All of that is cannon, for everyone else, it's not. We are saying the same thing. To SBP, Earth one was just a good read. While in the Earth One DCU, they are all cannon.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I have been saying the same thing. The Characters are Cannonical to DC characters that they interact with, but the events of grand scale are non cannon to each other's reality. For instance, Donna Troy remembers all of the Crisis world's and the IC. for her, All of that is cannon, for everyone else, it's not. We are saying the same thing. To SBP, Earth one was just a good read. While in the Earth One DCU, they are all cannon.

How is this the same thing?

What bout my original question, how can a universal being be more powerfull then a multiversal one?

i've always gotten the feeling that the LT is all of the DC divine cosmics in one. he is the word, the voice, the right hand etc. at least in purpose, that sorta fits.

Being multiversal or universal has nothing to do with power, imagine that a universe is a body, an individual. Imagine that there is a little bee inside the mind of every man. This bee is inside every man, and can kill some of them, yet, there is one man that is able to control every single cell of his body. What can the bee do against him? Squat, that is.

Being multiversal doesnt mean you control every aspect of the universe, you can be simply supprimed in an entire reality and you wont be able to do anything about it.

Originally posted by Juntai
No, you were claiming they were different universes. Which is untrue, as I showed events happening in continuity with the characters.
I was saying the Vertigo stories are non-canon.
Which is true.

How is this the same thing?

Vertigo Stories are cannon each unto themselves. The ones' that go together are the Vertigo universe. That ones that dont' fit are each Seperate realities. DC has shown us that they operate like this time and time again.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Vertigo Stories are cannon each unto themselves. The ones' that go together are the Vertigo universe. That ones that dont' fit are each Seperate realities. DC has shown us that they operate like this time and time again.

As such, Lucifer in DC is the same Lucifer as in Vertigo.
Yet, the entire Lucifer series does not exist to DC.
Likewise with Sandman. Morhpheus certainly exists in DC.
Yet, his stories do not fit soundly as they are printed.

They are merely non-canon stories, involving SOME canon characters.

Still Marvel has stated that Guardians of the galaxy is still canon.

Originally posted by Juntai
I disagree. They are merely written off as non-canon or self contained. These characters have their own stories inside of the DCU. Their stories in the Vertigo books fit nowhere inside of continuity.

As such, Lucifer in DC is the same Lucifer as in Vertigo.
Yet, the entire Lucifer series does not exist to DC.
Likewise with Sandman. Morhpheus certainly exists in DC.
Yet, his stories do not fit soundly as they are printed.

They are merely non-canon stories, involving SOME canon characters.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
when you have Characters who can traverse Universes and realities with ease, you accept the fact that the character is cannon and the story is cannon only to that character. We will simply have to disagree.

Originally posted by Juntai
No, you'll simply need to read the comics involved before arguing these points.
Spectre is multiversal.
Lucifer from Vertigo is not.
Neither is Micheal from Vertigo.
As can be seen in issue 75 of Lucifer when The Lightbringer exits The Plan, other versions exist other timelines with him, and merge into him.
THEN, he looks into another creation than his own altogether that he hypothesizes might not even be Yahweh's at all, and sees himself being created by Yahweh in that reality as well.

Lucifer is Multiversal if he can create a universe or shape one coming from another Universe. He also has easily moved from one to another. And Michael being able to beat the Multiversal Spectre makes him Multiversal. That is the way I see it. As I said, we will have to just disagree. Your not going to change my mind and I"m not trying to change yours.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Lucifer is Multiversal if he can create a universe or shape one coming from another Universe. He also has easily moved from one to another. And Michael being able to beat the Multiversal Spectre makes him Multiversal. That is the way I see it. As I said, we will have to just disagree. Your not going to change my mind and I"m not trying to change yours.

Originally posted by Juntai
1] Lucifer wasn't able to do that on his own.
2] DC characters have made universes before, who aren't multiversal.
3] Micheal who defeated Spectre, is not Vertigo Micheal. The Micheal and Lucifer in Vertigo, as seen in the VERTIGO issue I mentioned, are not multiversal entities, and do not have power over any other realities than than their own.
4]You're hopeless.

I"m glad you seek to chide me and put me down where as I have simply said that we have to disagree. I guess being rude is hopeless as well. I have my point of view and you have yours. Taking into context, the entire breath of the characters and what is connected and what is not, and the fact that human beings mess up and write dumb stuff all the time, myview is works when relationg characters to each other.

nvrbeenwthagirl: The Earth is flat!
Someone else: No it isn't! And here's proof!
nvrbeenwthagirl: I guess we disagree. It's a tie.

Originally posted by King Kandy
nvrbeenwthagirl: The Earth is flat!
Someone else: No it isn't! And here's proof!
nvrbeenwthagirl: I guess we disagree. It's a tie.

You're an idiot. He hasn't presented any proof. He's only presented his point of view. Get lost chump. Your a troller who is only trying to inflame. I'm reporting you. He hasn't said anything I don't know. If he and you took the time to read what I was saying, then you would know That i know some of the characters are in Seperate Stories. Those Stories are cannon unto themselves. The Characters are Cannon WHENEVER THEY CONNECT WITH another multiversal character, that makes that contact with that character cannonical. Geez how many times I gotta say the same thing. damn

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You an idiot. He hasn't presented any proof. He's only presented his point of view. Get lost chump. Your a troller who is only trying to inflame. I'm reporting you.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I"m a "Troller", am I? I'll have you know that I'm far more knowledgable on the subjects of cosmics then you are...

That is subjective. You haven't really debated me on anything. You have done nothing but troll. Hell, you dont' even know the full breath of Characters DC has to offer. So how would youknow more than I? How do you know what I know? becuz my opinion differs from yours and a few others? that doesn't mean I dont' know. That only means the popular kids get all the credit here. and we see how that can turn out when someone comes along and puts the screws to people like that.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You're an idiot. He hasn't presented any proof. He's only presented his point of view. Get lost chump. Your a troller who is only trying to inflame. I'm reporting you. He hasn't said anything I don't know. If he and you took the time to read what I was saying, then you would know That i know some of the characters are in Seperate Stories. Those Stories are cannon unto themselves. The Characters are Cannon WHENEVER THEY CONNECT WITH another multiversal character, that makes that contact with that character cannonical. Geez how many times I gotta say the same thing. damn

Originally posted by Juntai
I'm telling you it's simply untrue. Micheal from Vertigo is not Micheal from DC, nor is Lucifer. DC has it's OWN versions of these characters. Vertigo is not canon.
I've presented plenty of proof supporting that.
Apperently King Kandy sees that too.

Vertigo is Non-Cannon For the DCU. YOu didn't have to tell me that. I know that. Vertigo is cannon unto vertigo. Even if there are a billion conflicting stories, each Story would be cannon unto itself. Just like in DC. There are a billion conflicting stories in the elseworlds, yet they each represent an actual and true reality. Apparently Neither of you see it the way that I do. I'm not trying to convice you to see it my way. Every story that reflects the established status quo would be cannon unto the greater Verigo Mythos. Every Story that does not is a self contained connical Story unto itself. Every else world's tale is a cannonical universe unto itself. Mr. mxy once destroyed every DCU ever. Even Vertigo. Mxy once Took the Ultimator to visit Morpheus for all eternity. These sotry cannonize Vertigo as an alternate Reality. I really can't put it any other way.