The LT runs the Guantlet

Originally posted by I watch Pokemon
Michael is still standing, while Spectre is down, all after just one attack. Spectre managed to hurt Michael a little, doesn't mean he put up a good fight.

“I dare not destroy you outright”

Sounds like Michael was holding back as well.

If I knocked you unconscious with a bat, it would be pretty easy to finish the job if I saw fit, while you lay on the floor.

Originally posted by Juntai
Not quite, when he's speaking of how great a foe he is, and he's hunched over and dropped his weapons. And in it's clear that Micheal was on the defensive in the combat.

That is also not their only fight in history. Micheal and Spectre go way back.

The odd thing about the story is that Spectre couldn't enter heaven, and battled Micheal to get in, and lost, then went to Heaven and went in anyways an issue or two later.

The Word needed Spectre elsewhere, and thus Micheal sent him on his way.

The Word is another great Character. From what I could find on it, it's like the Super Multiversal Guardian or something like that. Can you tell me some stories I can find on him.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The Word is another great Character. From what I could find on it, it's like the Super Multiversal Guardian or something like that. Can you tell me some stories I can find on him.

Originally posted by Juntai
The dare not destroy you outright doesn't seem as if he was speaking of them in the battle, but rather his defeated form.

Originally posted by Galan007
The reason Michael didnt destroy Spectre is because he is needed in the great scheme of things, obviously the Word has a greater plan for him.

Originally posted by Juntai
Obviously, but that has little impact on what I was saying.

It wasn't really because Spectre was KO'd already.

Originally posted by Juntai
The Word is God.

Form what I have read, it's an aspect.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Form what I have read, it's an aspect.

Originally posted by Galan007
Im just saying, thats the reason Michael didnt outright kill Spectre. He was needed.

It wasn't really because Spectre was KO'd already.

However, most of these conceptions of Heaven were thrown out of the window when volume 4 hit, and losing to Micheal was pretty much just losing to God. 🙂

Originally posted by Juntai
Depends on if you're counting Vertigo as canon, in DC, Word is another name for God, in Lucifer, it was just an aspect of Yahweh. However Lucifer is non-canon.

What makes lucifer Non-cannon? isn't part of the Vertigo imprint?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
What makes lucifer Non-cannon? isn't part of the Vertigo imprint?

The differences are vast.

Originally posted by Juntai
It's Vertigo canon, and it's stories spun out of Sandman. But... Vertigo isn't canon for DC comics.
Some tell-tale signs invole things like in Lucifer, the entire concepts of Heaven and Hell were destroyed.
- Something that did not take place in DC.
Yahweh handed over reality to Elaine... and multiple realities were melded into one. And they show humans and demons and all sorts of mystical creatures walking the streets together as equals.
-Something that did not take place in DC.
In Vertigo, Boston Brand is not The Deadman.
- Something that is not true in DC.
In DC, Wesley Dodds/Sandman died at the beginning of the last JSA volume, Wesley had a different death in Vertigo.

The differences are vast.

The events that happen are not cannon for each universe, but the character's themselves are cannon. These characters cross over all the time. It's no different than the LT being in the 16 and then being in a what if. The events aren't cannon for the seperate realities, but the multiversal characters remain cannon.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The events that happen are not cannon for each universe, but the character's themselves are cannon. These characters cross over all the time. It's no different than the LT being in the 16 and then being in a what if. The events aren't cannon for the seperate realities, but the multiversal characters remain cannon.

Originally posted by King Kandy
But MULTIVERSAL events happened in Vertigo, that did not happen in DC.

Originally posted by King Kandy
But MULTIVERSAL events happened in Vertigo, that did not happen in DC.

You do realize that each Imprint is a seperate a multiverse unto themselves as well as being connected to each other.

Originally posted by King Kandy
But MULTIVERSAL events happened in Vertigo, that did not happen in DC.

Sorry if this is off topic,

It was acutaly stated in Guardians of the Galaxy that the Hawk God is a Multiversal being. Yet he is just below Eternity in power.

So my question is, how can a Multiversal being be lower in power then a Universal one?

Originally posted by Starhawk
Sorry if this is off topic,

It was acutaly stated in Guardians of the Galaxy that the Hawk God is a Multiversal being. Yet he is just below Eternity in power.

So my question is, how can a Multiversal being be lower in power then a Universal one?

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You do realize that each Imprint is a seperate a multiverse unto themselves as well as being connected to each other.

In 1995 I would have agreed that it is canon, but Vertigo comics imprint had taken such a change that it nearly alienated itself completely from DC canon.

Vertigo comics is an imprint where writers can ignore DC canon material. And do not follow the guidelines of DC comics. It's non-canon merely by nature. It's just a collection of good stories more or less. Even ones written long before it's inception were moved to the imprint and mostly disregarded by continuity...

Hell....It doesn't even have a canon to itself. Preacher, Lucifer, Testament, Pride of Bhagdad among everything else all appear in different self contained stories.

It was originally created as a place where more mature books would go, but with more mature books, such as Spectre volume 3[freaturing heavy violence, lots of blood, and even nudity.], and others appearing in DC continuity, it becomes clearer that they are merely alienating these books from the DC canon.

The appearances of Vertigo characters in DC comics, and vice versa appear more as simple Crossovers than anything else.

The only one that could even remotely be included is Sandman, as references in Green Arrow current run number 9, flashes back to Sandman 1. And in Justice League of America 154, the JLA battled Dr Destiny with Morpheus' gem, however in contunuity this could never have happened in 1988 as said in Sandman.[Which is the date given]
Yet, Morpheus' imprisonment is mentioned in the timeline in the back of Zero Hour.
Giving the idea that it does indeed take place in the DCU.
However, Lucifer is the same Lucifer from Sandman.
"Out of the pages of Sandman" it says on the very first issue.
Then a lot of events happen in Lucifer, that do not happen in DC continuity at all. - Such as Elaine taking over for God, and getting rid of Heaven and Hell and merging multiple creations, and demons and men and angels walking hand in hand down the streets.

Stuff like this is why, unless it has a DC logo, it shouldn't really be considered part of DC's canon.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Guardians of the Galaxy is not cannon becuz its an alternate timeline. So we dont' really have to think about it to hard.

Actaully Marvel does consider it canon since it was the original Marvel future and the characters have interacted with present day Marvel U. Same with Squadron Supreme, alternate universe yet still canon. Exiles has kinda changed how Marvel views Canon material.

So back to my question?

Originally posted by Juntai
But then Heaven and Hell exist outside the constraints of such definitions as universe and multiverse. And Heaven and Hell no longer exist as per Lucifer, which is turn tied to Sandman

In 1995 I would have agreed that it is canon, but Vertigo comics imprint had taken such a change that it nearly alienated itself completely from DC canon.

Vertigo comics is an imprint where writers can ignore DC canon material. And do not follow the guidelines of DC comics. It's non-canon merely by nature. It's just a collection of good stories more or less. Even ones written long before it's inception were moved to the imprint and mostly disregarded by continuity...

Hell....It doesn't even have a canon to itself. Preacher, Lucifer, Testament, Pride of Bhagdad among everything else all appear in different self contained stories.

It was originally created as a place where more mature books would go, but with more mature books, such as Spectre volume 3[freaturing heavy violence, lots of blood, and even nudity.], and others appearing in DC continuity, it becomes clearer that they are merely alienating these books from the DC canon.

The appearances of Vertigo characters in DC comics, and vice versa appear more as simple Crossovers than anything else.

IN the greater context of the characters, it's easy to distiguish what is cannon from what is absurd. Things that have characters who contantly appear with each other or in the established set hierarchy of the mythos would have to win out over some writer's absurdities. Since the Spectre is a being who is multiversal and can cross barriers, it would mean that any context with him would be cannonical when it comes to him, and the place of that being. Maybe not that universe in relation to DC, but to the characters themselves. FOr instance, The Lt is the same LT in any marvel Reality. Thus cannonizing his interaction with anyone he meets. These events may not be cannon for the 616, but they are cannon to the LT becuz he doesnot differentiate between realities. They are all places that he watches over. The Spectre is still the Wrath of God no matter what reality he is in, thus if He can stand up to the power of Michael, however briefly in one reality, He can stand up to it's equal in the other reality, which is the source. Tho we know he would still lose.