Thanos vs Superman

Originally posted by dmills
^^^I think it's a matter of perspective. A DC fan see's Superman go toe to toe with the Darkseid, the presumed dc counter part of Thanos, and hold his own. So to them it's not a strech to say Supes can win vs Thanos. Now to a Marvel fan, it's borderline absurd to think that Supes stands a chance. After all, we've seen Thanos slap around the likes of Thor and the silver surfer (Both of whom a majority of marvel fans see as superior to supes in terms of power sets) with relative ease.

So now we have two views in collision. Either a DC fan has to accept that Thanos is vastly superior to most superman villians; i.e. Darkseid. Or Marvel fans have to accept that Superman is vastly superior to characters that marvel fans consider his peers; i.e. Thor and the Silver Surfer.

Truth is, it's really apples and oranges. It seems to me that DC very often blurs the line within their power tiers. In the dc world supes can overpower Imperiex and dc fans would not only find it believable, they'd cheer as it happened. OTOH, of Thor single handedly overpowered Galactus's worldship, we'd scream PIS and bloody murder loud enough for the heavens to hear.

It's also true that certain Marvel/Dc characters if they were to switch places, would either recieve a significant amp, or become depowered. Supes in Marvel would see a slight decrease in power mostly due to marvels adherence to a somewhat strict hierarchy, while Thor would probably get an amp because of dc's higher priority of god's, magic and the supernatural.

That's my take on it anyway.

Great post, but what I think it comes down to is separting jobbing and pis from forum battles.

SM does alright against DS because DS jobs. Thor overpowering Big G is PIS and so is a sundipped superman 'overpowering' Imperiex, not to mention its bad writing too. It's all nonsense, they're heroes so they save the day. If thanos can smack SS around, then SM, who is a good deal below him, has no chance in hell. This goes beyond ABC logic: the particular fields at which SM is better than SS cant justify him beating thanos, ever.

SS and thor would get crushed by DS too, unless there is PIS involved.

Originally posted by dmills
^^^I think it's a matter of perspective. A DC fan see's Superman go toe to toe with the Darkseid, the presumed dc counter part of Thanos, and hold his own. So to them it's not a strech to say Supes can win vs Thanos. Now to a Marvel fan, it's borderline absurd to think that Supes stands a chance. After all, we've seen Thanos slap around the likes of Thor and the silver surfer (Both of whom a majority of marvel fans see as superior to supes in terms of power sets) with relative ease.

So now we have two views in collision. Either a DC fan has to accept that Thanos is vastly superior to most superman villians; i.e. Darkseid. Or Marvel fans have to accept that Superman is vastly superior to characters that marvel fans consider his peers; i.e. Thor and the Silver Surfer.

Truth is, it's really apples and oranges. It seems to me that DC very often blurs the line within their power tiers. In the dc world supes can overpower Imperiex and dc fans would not only find it believable, they'd cheer as it happened. OTOH, of Thor single handedly overpowered Galactus's worldship, we'd scream PIS and bloody murder loud enough for the heavens to hear.

It's also true that certain Marvel/Dc characters if they were to switch places, would either recieve a significant amp, or become depowered. Supes in Marvel would see a slight decrease in power mostly due to marvels adherence to a somewhat strict hierarchy, while Thor would probably get an amp because of dc's higher priority of god's, magic and the supernatural.

That's my take on it anyway.

This is got to be the post of the year so far. Excellent dmills! I think you are right, you hit the nail on the head.

Originally posted by 753
Great post, but what I think it comes down to is separting jobbing and pis from forum battles.

SM does alright against DS because DS jobs. Thor overpowering Big G is PIS and so is a sundipped superman 'overpowering' Imperiex, not to mention its bad writing too. It's all nonsense, they're heroes so they save the day. If thanos can smack SS around, then SM, who is a good deal below him, has no chance in hell. This goes beyond ABC logic: the particular fields at which SM is better than SS cant justify him beating thanos, ever.

SS and thor would get crushed by DS too, unless there is PIS involved.

Thanos smacking around SS is PIS considering the FTL reflexes SS is supposed to have. This is like saying it is logically acceptable for Hulk to smack Superman around.

Rock Paper Scissors!
ABC logic doesn't always work and this is the case here. No doubt Thanos is very powerful but Superman has a certain power that can win it for him. And that is speed. Not just any speed but Superman speed. Many here want to dumb the fight down and go by ABC logic and say that Thanos wins. This is lazy as hell. Just analyze the fight for Pete's sake! It is clear that if Superman has the power to hurt Thanos and can move 5ft before Thanos can move 1in. Thanos have no defense. Also Superman can avoid any of Thanos attacks, just like SS is suppose to.

Originally posted by h1a8
Thanos smacking around SS is PIS considering the FTL reflexes SS is supposed to have. This is like saying it is logically acceptable for Hulk to smack Superman around.

Rock Paper Scissors!
ABC logic doesn't always work and this is the case here. No doubt Thanos is very powerful but Superman has a certain power that can win it for him. And that is speed. Not just any speed but Superman speed. Many here want to dumb the fight down and go by ABC logic and say that Thanos wins. This is lazy as hell. Just analyze the fight for Pete's sake! It is clear that if Superman has the power to hurt Thanos and can move 5ft before Thanos can move 1in. Thanos have no defense. Also Superman can avoid any of Thanos attacks, just like SS is suppose to.

It isn't PIS because he has done it frequently. He also has bested other beings that are surfer level using other tools. In one comic he just plants a mind whammy on Fallen One (herald level) in the middle of a speed blitz. He can also imprison Superman in a block of pure force with a glance like he tried on Odin (although unsuccessful since Odin is a God).

What is lazy is that you boil the fight down to speed and claim Thanos has no defense which is laughable. Thanos has shields that held off Galactus and Champion with power gem (planet busting punches), what makes you think Superman can get through? If Thanos's weakness was speed blitzing then he woulda been exposed by now, especially with all the encounter he had with Surfer and Thor. The worst I've seen him get it is runner but he still won that encounter.

Originally posted by 753
If thanos can smack SS around, then SM, who is a good deal below him, has no chance in hell.

People like Thor, Diana, Billy are all day-to-day Superman's equal, Darkseid is a notch or two ahead of them. A determined Superman is a notch or two above that still, in these situations those people that were his peers- no longer are.

Originally posted by CeSoir
It isn't PIS because he has done it frequently. He also has bested other beings that are surfer level using other tools. In one comic he just plants a mind whammy on Fallen One (herald level) in the middle of a speed blitz. He can also imprison Superman in a block of pure force with a glance like he tried on Odin (although unsuccessful since Odin is a God).

What is lazy is that you boil the fight down to speed, but Thanos has shields that held off Galactus and Champion with power gem (planet busting punches), what makes you think Superman can get through?

Originally posted by CeSoir
It isn't PIS because he has done it frequently.

Originally posted by Juntai
Drax didn't seem to have a problem tearing right through, or are we going to suggest that Thanos' shields have a inherent weakness to Drax as well?

He actually did have a weakness to Drax. You seem to be ignoring that Drax was created to destroy Thanos and had a strange green glow during that incident. You also ignore that Thanos had his back turned, both hands occupied, and the shields still kept Drax busy for a bit.

Originally posted by CeSoir
Thanos actually has feats that put him above Superman, especially in his early battles with Drax. There is one where Drax and Thanos clash and the entire planet explodes on them, Thanos is still standing. I've just never seen a post crisis Superman destroy a planet by clashing with an opponent.

Originally posted by Juntai
Oh, you mean, like Superman beating Darkseid and other opponents on that level? Interesting.

Darkseid isnt the villain he used to be. He's taken dives to more than just Superman....and frequently. Thanos however has remained strong over these years while Darkseid sinks lower and lower. Isnt there a scan where he is working at a McDonalds? Yeah...

Originally posted by CeSoir
He actually did have a weakness to Drax. You seem to be ignoring that Drax was created to destroy Thanos and had a strange green glow during that incident. You also ignore that Thanos had his back turned, both hands occupied, and the shields still kept Drax busy for a bit.

Originally posted by CeSoir
Darkseid isnt the villain he used to be. He's taken dives to more than just Superman....and frequently. Thanos however has remained strong over these years while Darkseid sinks lower and lower. Isnt there a scan where he is working at a McDonalds? Yeah...

And, that's not canon material.
Good try though.

Originally posted by Juntai
I wasn't ignoring anything.
You're suggesting the shield tech has an inherent weakness to Drax?
If you mean kept Drax busy for a bit, you mean 'opened it up like a bag of chips', then you'd be correct.

Kept him out long enough for Thanos to tell him to knock it off multiple times and keep working with the control panel. Thanos wasnt fighting back, had his back turned, and had both hands occupied. Are you basing your whole argument on Thanos being busy trying to save the Universe in this fight? Does Superman need to attack an occupied Thanos to pull out a win? I'd say so given the power difference.

Originally posted by Juntai
Like who?

And, that's not canon material.
Good try though.

Well, in addition to the countless stompings Supes has given him, well, Orion, Doomsday, Batman with a gun have either KOed or killed him. Wonder Woman has deflected his beams, Superman has tanked his beams or flew them back into Darkseid. Precrisis omega was much more powerful, same with Darkseid. Everything good about Darkseid is now retconned material...he's just Superman's punching bag at this point.

Originally posted by CeSoir
Kept him out long enough for Thanos to tell him to knock it off multiple times and keep working with the control panel. Thanos wasnt fighting back, had his back turned, and had both hands occupied. Are you basing your whole argument on Thanos being busy trying to save the Universe in this fight? Does Superman need to attack an occupied Thanos to pull out a win? I'd say so given the power difference.

Originally posted by Juntai
I'm not talking about the scenario. I'm talking specifically about the shields. Keep up kid. You mentioned the shields being so strong, I mentioned a character tearing right through them like they barely existed. If by multiple times, you mean "We can settle afte--- it can't be." before having his heart ripped out, then you'd be correct. Because that's all he said as soon as Drax touched his shield.

You are trying to prove the shields are weak but unable to do so. Galactus had to exert himself to get through. Power gemmed Champion was unable to bust them with multiple punches. The difference is Thanos was occupied and Drax was amped, if you can't accept it then we should move on. Nothing you can say will take away Galactus and Champion with P gem struggling with the shields, because those are both canon incidents.

Originally posted by CeSoir
Well, in addition to the countless stompings Supes has given him, well, Orion, Doomsday, Batman with a gun have either KOed or killed him. Wonder Woman has deflected his beams, Superman has tanked his beams or flew them back into Darkseid. Precrisis omega was much more powerful, same with Darkseid. Everything good about Darkseid is now retconned material...he's just Superman's punching bag at this point.

Originally posted by CeSoir
Well, in addition to the countless stompings Supes has given him, well, Orion, Doomsday, Batman with a gun have either KOed or killed him. Wonder Woman has deflected his beams, Superman has tanked his beams or flew them back into Darkseid. Precrisis omega was much more powerful, same with Darkseid. Everything good about Darkseid is now retconned material...he's just Superman's punching bag at this point.

So far you have Superman, and the guy that killed Superman in a story where he was amped up beyond belief so much that the only way to halt him was to drop him at the end of time. Even Waverider was useless against him. Even Guardians and Magog couldn't do much to Doomsday in other stories.

Originally posted by Juntai
Batman shot an already dying Darkseid.
Superman tanking him isn't relivent when attempting to mention people 'other than Superman'.
Diana deflecting beams isn't defeating him.
Darkseid planned his loss to Orion as a trick, or did you not read the story?
Doomsday is Doomsday.

So far you have Superman, and the guy that killed Superman in a story where he was amped up beyond belief so much that the only way to halt him was to drop him at the end of time. Even Waverider was useless against him. Even Guardians and Magog couldn't do much to Doomsday in other stories.

Well, dont shrug off the times that Superman pounded his eyes shut or flew through his omega beams. Besides, why didn't Darkseid just omega effect Doomsday into a different area of the Universe? I just expected more cunning from him if hes gonna remain a Universal threat. I lose respect when characters go in and brawl with mindless beasts and end up getting dragged away KOed...because that is exactly what happened mate.