Thanos vs Superman

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
pretty sure both batman and Nightwing have dodged superman's HV and speed blitz without FTL reflexes...

Superman isnt always moving at light speed especially on earth. in one Supe scan SUpe talks about how devastating his speed can be toward the environment which is why he only travels at certain speeds on earth and how he calculates his speed to compensate for its destructive side effects.

i would peg superman rarely moves at light speed and only moves around mach lvl speeds. i know there have bn some inconsistency on his earth speed but i try to use the logical approach via SM's statement.

No one human has dodged or blocked HV AFTER the fire. Your argument suggests that Superman's hv isn't light speed. Well if so then we can also say that bullets in comics don't move bullet speed either.

I don't know what comic you are referring to but writers have artistic license. Some writers feel a different way. Some writers have Spider-man lift 40tons others don't. Current writers have no problem with Superman reaching light speed and beyond in an atmosphere (since they let him already do it). Plus Superman will fight at his best here.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Spamming also involves taking 15+ posts to say exactly the same thing without backing it up.

It's called an update. Most members here don't read every post. So an update post is needed. And they did back it up. They mention the speed factor and also ABC logic dealing with Darkseid and Thanos.

Originally posted by h1a8
No one human has dodged or blocked HV AFTER the fire. Your argument suggests that Superman's hv isn't light speed. Well if so then we can also say that bullets in comics don't move bullet speed either.

I don't know what comic you are referring to but writers have artistic license. Some writers feel a different way. Some writers have Spider-man lift 40tons others don't. Current writers have no problem with Superman reaching light speed and beyond in an atmosphere (since they let him already do it). Plus Superman will fight at his best here.

I've seen Nightwing continuously dodge multiple blasts of heat vision in a confined space from a Batman that had Superman's powers.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Here you go my friend:

Yet Superman has achieved light speed on other occasions. It's called Artistic License. Also there are no people between Thanos and Superman.
The same as when Superman achieved light speed in other occasions, there was no people between him and his foe.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I've seen Nightwing continuously dodge multiple blasts of heat vision in a confined space from a Batman that had Superman's powers.

I'd like to point out that I'm talking about skill, and you're talking about something you haven't even defined...namely, 'demonstrated' skill. If you're talking about 'demonstrated' in the sense that he has more feats of skill, well of course. He's been in 500x more comics than Thanos has. That being said, here we go:

Originally posted by Allankles
Gamora's opinion doesn't have anything directly to do with Superman or Superman's ability, does it? I mean Gamora's limitations are not Superman's so what does her assessment of Thanos have to do with Supes, the statement isn't really quantifiable with relation to Supes.

Now, Superman's faster, so that doesn't necessarily hold true. But if I understood you correctly, we were talking about skill, and no other factors.

Originally posted by Allankles
Demonstrated skill on the other hand can be quantified, and it is clear that Supes does have Thanos beat in demonstrated combat skill. Hell the guy has pulled off Spiderman-like acrobatics in his time.

Originally posted by Allankles
All these guys are skilled, Thor, Odin, Hercules etc, some of them have 1000's of years more experience than Gamora or Thanos, if we considere things logically we could assume they've acquired more skill in their time.

Originally posted by Allankles
The point though, is in terms of demostrated skill Thanos isn't close to Supes.

Originally posted by h1a8
Its called aim dodging and not dodging after the fire. The same logic can be applied to as why mere humans can dodge bullets in comics.

Originally posted by h1a8
Its called aim dodging and not dodging after the fire. The same logic can be applied to as why mere humans can dodge bullets in comics.

You can't prove me wrong.

Originally posted by Enyalus

Gamora's martial arts skill is far greater than Superman's. Ergo, purely on skill, if she had problems finding an opening, Superman would have even more trouble.

That's a question of ability and perception, her limitations in that area are not Superman's limitations. So how can it be a matter of Thanos' skill vs Superman's?

Originally posted by Enyalus
Now, Superman's faster, so that doesn't necessarily hold true. But if I understood you correctly, we were talking about skill, and no other factors.

You just ticked off one of the reasons why her assessment was absolutely irrelevant in a comparison of Thanos' skill vs Superman's. Not just speed which ties into overal combat ability (Superman has way more potential) but Superman's perceptions are way beyond hers.

Superman can see openings and weaknesses where she cannot. Honestly, all her undefined skills shouldn't factor into the discussion.

Originally posted by Enyalus

I'm aware of it. Most of the time it's when he's lost his powers. The V&V story is a good example. However, Thanos has pretty good agility feats (for his size) under his belt as well. He was even dressed up as a ninja with an accompanying sword. 😛 Would you like to see the scans?

But scans would be cool.

Originally posted by Enyalus

Except that Gamora's been stated to have mastered over 80% of all combat forms in the known universe. Thor and Hercules rarely even leave the Earth/Nine Worlds.?

She's a martial scholar, it doesn't speak for her overall ability relative to those guys though. For instance Wolvie is less hyped yet has been seen contending with her. Ronan isn't a paragon of absolute skill and he contended with her. So her abilities can't be used as a frame of reference that includes Supes.

Skills are usually used for certain characters who need to compensate. Logically there's no reason why these guys, with way more upside (in terms of physical ability) shouldn't have some practice with these skills.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I suppose that goes back to above, where your definition of 'demonstrated skill' is unclear to me.

Not the no. of skill showings but the level of the skills displayed. Supes has him beat there hands down.

Originally posted by Allankles
Not the no. of skill showings but the level of the skills displayed. Supes has him beat there hands down.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Relatively speaking, Gamora has displayed, and is referenced has having, a greater degree of fighting acumen than characters like Superman.

Yes, I addressed that ODG, and gave her credit for that, but her limitations can't be imposed on Supes. His abilities in the areas of perception and reflexes are above hers. So it comes down to combat ability and she's weaker in that area, overall.

She's going to be more agile and finesseful (she has to be) than Supes on average, that doesn't affect the issue of combat ability though. It's not like Supes has problems with agility or finesse tbh.

^ I don't see how this is talking about anything else but skill specifically: "Not the no. of skill showings but the level of the skills displayed. Supes has him beat there hands down."

But if you agree that, relatively speaking, Gamora has a greater degree of martial arts acumen than Superman does, then there's no need to mince words.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ I don't see how this is talking about anything else but skill specifically: "Not the no. of skill showings but the level of the skills displayed. Supes has him beat there hands down."

But if you agree that, relatively speaking, Gamora has a greater degree of martial arts acumen than Superman does, then there's no need to mince words.

It is a question of perception. She couldn't see openings or couldn't take advantage of the ones she saw. How is that a relevant reference for a comparison of skill? Superman has a beat in perception and reflexes (much greater ability to create an opening and/or take advantage of one).

It's a bit of a stretch to lump Supes with her limitations, regardless of what undefined skills she might possess. Her combat abilities are less than Supes.

^ I frankly don't care whether you believe her combat effectiveness is less than Superman's. Her martial arts skills are quite clearly above Superman's. Are we agreed on that or not?

Originally posted by h1a8
Its called aim dodging and not dodging after the fire. The same logic can be applied to as why mere humans can dodge bullets in comics.

Cool. Then this same logic needs to be applied across the board. I'll let Enyalus handle this as this was his debate.

I'm feeling extra lazy, so all I'm going to add is that you need to have the skill to see openings in your opponent's defenses. Perception and sensory boosts don't have that much to do with it. It's not as if Thanos was overwhelming her with his speed. Clearly she could see what he was doing. She just had trouble finding an opening. Which is a testament to his skill. Superman has no where near her amount of skill - he's going to struggle, too. Regardless of his enhanced perceptions. Because that doesn't matter, because Thanos wasn't speedblitzing or anything.

Surfer has better perceptions than Superman. Doesn't help him when they fight.

Originally posted by Allankles
😱

But scans would be cool.

😱 Ninja Thanos is the only being in the multiverse capable of beating Pirate Thanos!

Originally posted by manx422
Superman stomps

Originally posted by Enyalus
I'm feeling extra lazy, so all I'm going to add is that you need to have the skill to see openings in your opponent's defenses. Perception and sensory boosts don't have that much to do with it. It's not as if Thanos was overwhelming her with his speed. Clearly she could see what he was doing. She just had trouble finding an opening. Which is a testament to his skill. Superman has no where near her amount of skill - he's going to struggle, too. Regardless of his enhanced perceptions. Because that doesn't matter, because Thanos wasn't speedblitzing or anything.

Surfer has better perceptions than Superman. Doesn't help him when they fight.

😱 Ninja Thanos is the only being in the multiverse capable of beating Pirate Thanos!

Originally posted by psycho gundam
samurai 🙄

So there. 😛

Originally posted by Enyalus
I'm feeling extra lazy, so all I'm going to add is that you need to have the skill to see openings in your opponent's defenses. Perception and sensory boosts don't have that much to do with it. It's not as if Thanos was overwhelming her with his speed. Clearly she could see what he was doing. She just had trouble finding an opening. Which is a testament to his skill. Superman has no where near her amount of skill - he's going to struggle, too. Regardless of his enhanced perceptions. Because that doesn't matter, because Thanos wasn't speedblitzing or anything.

Surfer has better perceptions than Superman. Doesn't help him when they fight.

Again, imposing another characters limitations on another is the definition of ABC logic. Skill doesn't necessarily translate to ability. You can have all the skill in the world yet lack the ability to maximize on said skill, because of physical limitations. In the world of combat perception and speed/reflexes count for a lot, in fact they overcome "pure" skill in a lot of instances.

Superman can see openings where she cannot, simply because of his perception of Thanos' movement. In Supes eyes Thanos moves a lot slower than he does in Gamora's, that's obvious, so at the end of the day Supes won't have problems seeing those openings.

If you want some kind of moral victory by calling it "pure" skill, then so be it, although again it still remains a mark of her limitations not Supes. But her combat abilities (including her ability to see openings) are not in Supes league. Again this is a a guy who can see every fibre in every muscle flex, on top of that everything Thanos does will be in slow motion to him.

Also using SS is ABC logic, SS gets wrecked h2h, Supes can't share his feats or his record, they're different characters afterall.

Again Thanos has not actually shown the same level of skill on panel. I wouldn't need to argue over Gamora's statement to know that.

Originally posted by Enyalus

😱 Ninja Thanos is the only being in the multiverse capable of beating Pirate Thanos!

Thanks.