Allankles
Kwisatz Haderach
Originally posted by Enyalus
There's nothing wrong with using ABC logic in this instance. I haven't made any errors in comparison. Gamora, clearly, does not suffer from any ability to maximize her skill. Speed/reflexes often overcome pure skill in a lot of instances, yes. You weren't discussing speed initially though. Now that you've been called out on it, you seem to want to steer the conversation that way, though.
The discussion was demonstrated skill, and Supes is still leading on that front vs Thanos.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Superman needs to consciously speed up his thought processing speed in order to slow down events and perceptions. He does not walk around every day at the Daily Planet viewing people in slow motion. That would be maddening, and quite frankly, absurd. Superman has no need to slow down his perceptions in order to find openings in Thanos' martial defenses. Why? Because Thanos isn't using any kind of overwhelming speed. Why would Superman, who is perfectly capable of keeping up with Thanos speed-wise, suddenly think, "Oh no! I can't find an opening. But maybe, just maybe if I speed up my thought processing I'll be able to see something I'd normally miss!"
Again your entire argument hinged on Gamora's perception. You were measurinng and comparing Supes skill vs Thanos on the limitations of Gamora's preceptions, her ability to "see openings".
So it really doesn't matter how Supes would find those openings, all of this just reduces the validity of that statement as any kind of demonstration of MA beyond or on Supes level. Agian skill and ability are not one and the same.
I don't know why you don't want to see this point. A legendary boxer in the twilight of his career might have every move and punch in the book but if his reflexes are slowed, he won't find the openings he used to. That simple example puts this idea of pigeonholing Supes with Gamora's perceptions, into percpective.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Which is irrelevant anyway. Because if he did find said opening by doing that, he'd still need to use his superior speed and reflexes in order to exploit that opening. Just because you can see an advantage doesn't mean you can take advantage of that, especially when you couldn't beforehand.
Who says Supes would have problems seeing things beforehand? As in your previous paragraph, you're making an argument based on a specific scenario. Who's to say Supes needs less than a second to amp his perceptions? Who's to say he doesn't see the openings immediately?
All it means is that Gamora is not a valid reference for Supes' perceptions in a combat scenario.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Again, nothing wrong with ABC logic. SS's perceptions are superior to Superman's in both sight and hearing. That's never helped SS find an opening in Thanos' defenses or take a win. You were arguing that Superman's superior perceptions would give him an advantage over what Gamora possessed. I just showed that its irrelevant, since he's fought people who have perceptions that are greater than Superman and won easily.
Again we'd have to assume SS thinks like or uses his abilities like Superman does. We've seen Supes calculate every move he makes in a close quarter battle, in situations where the odds were against him. SS hasn't shown any MA skill in those encounters with Thanos. So it is pretty invalid.
I'm not even going to get into a debate on who has what level of perception, Supes perceptions are pretty far out regardless, I go back to his "hearing" an electron being displaced in an atom ability, tough to beat that, and ofcourse his Telescopic Vision.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Gamora's statement is really all you need. When someone who has mastered 84.7% of combat forms in the universe says, hey, Thanos is tough to get to H2H, that's that. Case close.He's also killed a planet full of the deadliest mercenaries in the universe for sport. They had weapons even, he did not.
There are other examples aside from that. Thanos has plenty of pure MA skill.
I never said he doesn't have some skill, I said he hasn't demonstrated any skills on panel to the level of Superman, there's a difference. Gamora's statement confirms he has skill, but Thanos didn't have any kind of impressive MA displays in their sparring match.
When he has something in the way of a feat to brag about, then we can change those facts. His displays usually consist of basic brawling. When Supes has had to, he's demonstrated far greater finesse.
