Originally posted by Bouboumaster
You speak about maths and sciences, but some characters, including Superman, is known to travel ftl. Which is impossible. So there's that.Superman is aguarbly as powerful as Silver Surfer and Thor. The three of them are aguarbly in the same weight class. Which means Superman is super****ed, because Thanos is working at a hole other weight class.
It'd be like putting Jose Aldo (Superman) vs Junior Dos Santos (Thanos); Aldo is a BEAST in his weight class, but he just don't have the firepower to drop and beat someone like Dos Santos.
ABC logic doesn't work here. Superman does have the tools to beat Thanos.
Speed is the key for him.
Originally posted by h1a8
ABC logic doesn't work here. Superman does have the tools to beat Thanos.
Speed is the key for him.
Sang Chi has awesome skills, and he moves fast, so I guess he can drop the Hulk?
Speed is bullshit when it applies to a vast difference of power. A fly move faster than me, but she can't beat me, and a good slap from my hand is enough.
Heck, Thanos can drop Sups at the very start by using his telepathy.
Originally posted by h1a8
LOL, Dude. It's completely relevant, you just didn't understand. I'll prove it more clearly below.Either a very hot 2 second laser beam or a bullet shot from a gun has more force than the other or they both have the same force. That means if an object can withstand the greater then it certainly can withstand the weaker (according to your logic). We good so far?
Ok, now lets take a high tech heat resistant mat and hit it with both the 2 second laser and a bullet shot from a gun. The bullet passes through the jacket but the laser fails to burn through. So by your logic the bullet had more force on it than the laser did.
Now lets take a 1/4 inch thick steel plate and hit it with the same 2 second laser and bullet. The laser burns a hole through the plate but the bullet fails to penetrate completely. That means the laser had more force than the bullet.
We reach a contradiction. Thus we conclude that your assumption that blunt force penetration is directly related to the penetration ability of energy beams is wrong. The concept of 'Force' here is also wrong.
Lastly, there are alloys that have higher melting points, but aren't as tough in stress tests, as other alloys that have lower melting points. This is a fact.
Thanks for reiterating the fact that you are talking about something completely irrelevant to what I mentioned.
You are using an exhaustive amount of words to get across a completely obvious, axiomatic statement that, hey; lazers in reality burn, they don't concuss.
But that has absolutely nothing to do with the statement that 'force is force'.
There is no such distinction made in reality such as an 'energy force' vs a 'physical force'. It's all newtons.
Something like a firey explosion produces newtons, as does any actual physical motion. Thus the whole categorical 'energy projection durability' is farcical to begin. It's too broad.
There's concussive energy blasts, for which taking them is absolutely no different than taking equal force from any physical object, and there's the more esoteric energy blasts.
My point the whole time; there is no way to singularly categorize 'energy projection durability'. It is a useless term that doesn't gel in its broadness. Because part of the equation involved in some of them; concussive force, is already covered by physical durability in the first place. Then there's other things within them, that is covered by something more specific like 'heat tolerance'.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Thanks for reiterating the fact that you are talking about something completely irrelevant to what I mentioned.You are using an exhaustive amount of words to get across a completely obvious, axiomatic statement that, hey; lazers in reality burn, they don't concuss.
But that has absolutely nothing to do with the statement that 'force is force'.
There is no such distinction made in reality such as an 'energy force' vs a 'physical force'. It's all newtons.
Something like a firey explosion produces newtons, as does any actual physical motion. Thus the whole categorical 'energy projection durability' is farcical to begin. It's too broad.
There's concussive energy blasts, for which taking them is absolutely no different than taking equal force from any physical object, and there's the more esoteric energy blasts.
My point the whole time; there is no way to singularly categorize 'energy projection durability'. It is a useless term that doesn't gel in its broadness. Because part of the equation involved in some of them; concussive force, is already covered by physical durability in the first place. Then there's other things within them, that is covered by something more specific like 'heat tolerance'.
Lasers do concuss. Photons have momentum. Look it up.
Why ignore my argument and say irrelevant? I clearly proven you wrong. Either the laser or the bullet had more force. But we reach a contradiction when concerning two different materials.
Lastly, you are clearly using the wrong term when it comes to pure penetration. Force isn't the only thing that allows penetration, it is burning ability and pressure (like sharp objects).
Energy blasts in comics have both concussive and burning properties, not only concussive properties.
Not only does science backs me up but also comics themselves. Hardly no one is immune to blunt force trauma from a near equal peer in physicality (not even Thanos). But many have been shown highly resistant to blasts not only from peers but from superiors. So even if you disregard real science you can't disregard comics as well.
Originally posted by h1a8
Lasers do concuss. Photons have momentum. Look it up.
I'm aware. Allow to me to speak broadly for a second, as you do yourself.
Why ignore my argument and say irrelevant? I clearly proven you wrong. Either the laser or the bullet had more force. But we reach a contradiction when concerning two different materials.
The contradiction is something that YOU are trying to create, in using the word 'penetration' so liberally.
This was not done by me, as I did not use the term 'penetration' anywhere in any of my previous posts.
Apparently you think there is some sort of confusion between the penetration that comes from a collision that lasts for small fractions of a second (a bullet) or something that is more continuous for a longer stretch of time for the sake of heat (a lazer).
There isn't.
Lastly, you are clearly using the wrong term when it comes to pure penetration. Force isn't the only thing that allows penetration, it is burning ability and pressure (like sharp objects).
You're not too bright, are you? Do you realize what pressure is?
Pressure is Force divided by Area.
A hammer strike produces pressure, an explosion produces pressure, a sword strike produces pressure.
EVERYTHING produces pressure.
Just as everything produces force.
Once more, the point, once again, is THAT FORCE IS F*CKING FORCE.
There's no such thing as an energy force vs a physical force. Newtons are Newtons. That's it.
Energy blasts in comics have both concussive and burning properties, not only concussive properties.
Wonderful. Just as every physical strike is both concussive and heat producing as well, since obviously friction is involved.
The point --->
your head--->
Not only does science backs me up but also comics themselves. Hardly no one is immune to blunt force trauma from a near equal peer in physicality (not even Thanos). But many have been shown highly resistant to blasts not only from peers but from superiors. So even if you disregard real science you can't disregard comics as well. [/B]
Science says force is force. a newton from a flick of a finger is no different from a newton from a laser pen.
And now you are trying to use comics to support your own case? What? When the vast majority of time that is what you are disregarding to prove a point from a scientific stand point? What you're saying is far too broad to gel together anyway, because you know, its comics.
If Thanos tanks an optic blast from Cyclops (which we know is mainly concussive as per the comics), but feels a hammer strike from Thor (which we know is mainly concussive as well), then the only conclusion to come to is that Thor is producing more force and/or pressure from his hammer strike than Cyclops is from his optic blast. Not that Thanos' 'energy durability' is somehow higher than his 'physical durability'. That's a false distinction, as, once again, force is force.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
I'm aware. Allow to me to speak broadly for a second, as you do yourself.The contradiction is something that YOU are trying to create, in using the word 'penetration' so liberally.
This was not done by me, as I did not use the term 'penetration' anywhere in any of my previous posts.
Apparently you think there is some sort of confusion between the penetration that comes from a collision that lasts for small fractions of a second (a bullet) or something that is more continuous for a longer stretch of time for the sake of heat (a lazer).
There isn't.
You're not too bright, are you? Do you realize what pressure is?
Pressure is Force divided by Area.
A hammer strike produces pressure, an explosion produces pressure, a sword strike produces pressure.
EVERYTHING produces pressure.
Just as everything produces force.
Once more, the point, once again, is THAT FORCE IS F*CKING FORCE.
There's no such thing as an energy force vs a physical force. Newtons are Newtons. That's it.
Wonderful. Just as every physical strike is both concussive and heat producing as well, since obviously friction is involved.
The point --->
your head--->
Science says force is force. a newton from a flick of a finger is no different from a newton from a laser pen.
And now you are trying to use comics to support your own case? What? When the vast majority of time that is what you are disregarding to prove a point from a scientific stand point? What you're saying is far too broad to gel together anyway, because you know, its comics.
If Thanos tanks an optic blast from Cyclops (which we know is mainly concussive as per the comics), but feels a hammer strike from Thor (which we know is mainly concussive as well), then they only conclusion to come to is that Thor is producing more force and/or pressure from his hammer strike than Cyclops is from his optic blast. Not that Thanos' 'energy durability' is somehow higher than his 'physical durability'. That's a false distinction, as, once again, force is force.
Great post.
But anyway, science and comic books are not a good mixed. Superman has been show to defy physics itself when he flew faster than light. And even stupider, Thanos boned Death.
You can't apply any kind of maths or sciences in Marvel and DC, because they don't respect any kind of laws.
The point is: If it's establish that Surfer, Superman and Thor are the same kind of character, than Superman can't win against Thanos, because Thanos got feats that prove is leagues above characters in the "Herald" type of power.
This debate lasted for too long already.
Originally posted by CosmicCometWithout penetration, damage can't be done. It's the only relevant concept here.
I'm aware. Allow to me to speak broadly for a second, as you do yourself.The contradiction is something that YOU are trying to create, in using the word 'penetration' so liberally.
This was not done by me, as I did not use the term 'penetration' anywhere in any of my previous posts.
Apparently you think there is some sort of confusion between the penetration that comes from a collision that lasts for small fractions of a second (a bullet) or something that is more continuous for a longer stretch of time for the sake of heat (a lazer).
There isn't.
You're not too bright, are you? Do you realize what pressure is?Pressure is Force divided by Area.
A hammer strike produces pressure, an explosion produces pressure, a sword strike produces pressure.
EVERYTHING produces pressure.
Just as everything produces force.
Once more, the point, once again, is THAT FORCE IS F*CKING FORCE.
There's no such thing as an energy force vs a physical force. Newtons are Newtons. That's it.
lol at you trying to give me a basic physics lesson. Do you know my background? If you would have read my post correctly then you would have known I implied the definition Pressure = Force/Area when I mentioned being cut by sharp objects. Again, this is penetration which produces damage.
Force is force you say? Yes it is, but is that statement relevant to damage? No it isn't. One can be hit by two equal forces where one force causes damage and the other doesn't. Why? Because of the pressure differences. Apply 5lb of force to a knife and it will cut you, but apply 5lb of force to a punch and it does absolutely nothing.
Thus that point renders the below as irrelevant.
Science says force is force. a newton from a flick of a finger is no different from a newton from a laser pen.
And now you are trying to use comics to support your own case? What? When the vast majority of time that is what you are disregarding to prove a point from a scientific stand point? What you're saying is far too broad to gel together anyway, because you know, its comics.If Thanos tanks an optic blast from Cyclops (which we know is mainly concussive as per the comics), but feels a hammer strike from Thor (which we know is mainly concussive as well), then the only conclusion to come to is that Thor is producing more force and/or pressure from his hammer strike than Cyclops is from his optic blast. Not that Thanos' 'energy durability' is somehow higher than his 'physical durability'. That's a false distinction, as, once again, force is force.
Some appeal to real science and others to comic science. I'm just telling you both are on my side.
Yes Cyclops blast is all concussive as stated and shown. But all other energy blasts are not all concussive but contain disintegrating, burning, freezing, etc properties in them. Thus rendering your force is force argument as irrelevant to resisting damage.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Yes.It is.
Force is Force. Regardless of the source.
You realize, this is actually irrelevant to what I was saying, don't you?
Irrelevant to what I was saying.
I don't even understand what the hell you are getting at anymore.
If you can withstand X amount of force, then it is irrelevant what source it comes from. A hammer, an explosion, it is irrelevant.
That has nothing to do with the concept of more variables being available within a non-physical like an explosion, such as heat, as you said, but the force itself it provides is nothing esoteric at all.
If can you can withstand 10,000 lbs of force from car hitting you or something, 10,000 lbs of force from an explosion is nothing that will bother you either. (obviously the heat is a different question)
Why? Because, repeat after me; force is force.
Whether it comes from a blunt object, sharp object, energy blast etc. it doesn't matter.
Silver surfer was caught and smacked around by Thanos while moving insanely fast.
Thanos, for whatever reason has the ability to react to beings faster than him.
Thanos also has some kind of premonition ability to see and predict things before they happen.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
completely irrelevant as comic laser blasts don't adhere to science in the slightest. they're barely consistent within showings of the same beam shot by the same character as it is
Surfer's speed, who is much faster than Superman was brutalized by Thanos.
As far as what's possible and not possible. ANYTHING is possible in the comics and it's easily possible for Thanos to react to Superman's speed.
Originally posted by zeel
if surfer cant beat thanos supes isnt. supes is basically a brick and thanos beats bricks up like they are nothing. Nothing against supes just thanos is on another level. However i think supes will last longer then most hearlds.
ABC logic doesn't work when characters are fighting like idiots.
Superman is stronger and faster than Thanos. Thanos appears stronger mainly due to his size. But don't let that fool you. Hell Starfox showed that he was in the vicinity of Thanos strength when he was rocking him with punches.
Bottom line, a high end Superman fighting to the best of his ability as shown before could beat Thanos for a majority.
Originally posted by ToughMindNo he wasn't. SS never used his speed on Thanos where Thanos reacted and responded.
Silver surfer was caught and smacked around by Thanos while moving insanely fast.Thanos, for whatever reason has the ability to react to beings faster than him.
Thanos also has some kind of premonition ability to see and predict things before they happen.
Originally posted by ToughMind
Surfer's speed, who is much faster than Superman was brutalized by Thanos.As far as what's possible and not possible. ANYTHING is possible in the comics and it's easily possible for Thanos to react to Superman's speed.
Characters are often displayed not fighting to the best of their ability as shown before. That is why we have it as a forum rule, because we know it doesn't always happens in comics.
Surfer never used his ftl speed and reflexes on Thanos in which Thanos responded and reacted. Surfer is notorious for jobbing and fighting dumb as hell, forgetting his powers and abilities.
Superman is faster than Surfer in combat situations and has better mobility. Surfer may be faster than Superman in travel speed but not by alot.
Thanos won't be able to react to Superman provided Superman is actually using his speed intelligently as shown before in comics.