Originally posted by celestialdemon
You're trying to apply a real-world definition to a comic book. Omnipotence in comics doesn't mean the same thing as omnipotence in real life. The Living Tribunal has called Warlock with the IG and Eternity omnipotent or all powerful. I believe it was the Shaper of Worlds who said there are levels of omnipotence when referring the cubes' powers to the Celestials.
So your telling me that in Marvel Comics there are several Omnipotent characters?
Originally posted by id369
But not only that, Omnipotence is measured?
According to the way Shaper stated it, there are "levels of infinity". Cosmic cubes such as he can do anything they wish. However, beings such as Celestials are on a higher plane of infinity. They can also do anything they want but at a greater level than the cubes.
Originally posted by LordKaos
eternity is afraid of anything in the universe that questions his position. He runs to LT whenever he can't cope,
The only time Eternity went to LT for help was during the Infinity Gem sagas.
(that would be TWICE, because of IG Thanos, and IG Warlock)
During the Thanos with THOTI, it was LT that recruitied Eternity and everyone,
in FACT, Eternity attacked Thanos w/THOTI on his own.
Originally posted by LordKaos
he's more powerful than you and I but not the Phoenix Force, the only force/being that survives the death of everything.
Not true.
"Those Entities don't care about this Universe, Entropy, Oblivion, Death, Life, they REMAIN CONSTANT through ANY Big Bang"
The Abstracts survive the "death of everything"
Originally posted by Ido
Can you prove that PF is only part of the process? Regardless if it is, It still holds more authority over an Abstract.
Wrong.
Universes can go on without the Phoenix, there are plenty of other beings/artifacts/whatever that can destroy and create a Universe, and actually sustain said Universe withOUT the Phoenix's involvement.
heck, Phoenix isn't even as important as most Abstracts.
Chaos & Order are more essential to a Universe than Phoenix.
Without Chaos & Order a Universe would not function properly, but without Phoenix, Universes can sustain themselves.
5 Cosmic Containment Units created a duplicate 616 Universe, without the Phoenix, they were the sustanance for said duplicate Universe, without any need for Phoenix.
When Captain Marvel and Entropy erased 616 Eternity, they did it on their own, and when they CREATED a New 616 Universe/Eternity, they did it on their own withOUT Phoenix.
Yet, I challenge you to find ONE issue in which Phoenix created any Universe,
the most the Phoenix Force has done is destroy an Alternate Reality (a What If Universe) and it destroyed Jean in the process.
Originally posted by Ido
And you still haven’t shown or explained what Eternity has done on panel that equals Phoenix of the White Crown?
Eternity has died on Panel and the Universe has been erased because of it.
Eternity has been recreated into the Universe, and Eternity has created a Universe, which is his own body.
Originally posted by Xplosive
[B]WTF. Galactus could dry him, when Phoenix allowed it, but was defeated before it easily. But I doubt Phoenix would die since it's completely indestructible force (and WTF, Galactus has no high feats as what he should represent and is that why Galactus was scared of Dark Phoenix and now to make clear about FP Galactus, it was said he is Eternity equal then and everyone is using that, but hey, we never saw FP Galactus, we don't know what he could do, never on pannel, so this forum shoud lstop using term FP Galactus, hej, Watcher said Phoenix is only second to the creator, while he knew about Galactus existence, right), it can never die, Galactus can, Eternity can, Eternity can even get sick, PF came to heal him.
Completely indestructable? Then why did it scream in pain when the Entity's ship drained it? It's not indestructible. When did Galactus meet Dark Phoenix or feared it? It never happened. Watcher can say all he wants but that's not how the cosmic treat Phoenix Force. The Tribunal is second, then comes Eternity or Multi-Eternity if you want to get specific. LT has always been second to TOAA.
And what happened when Galactus tried to absorb Phoenix, Universe began dying.
LOL. Which only leads one to conclude Galactus can eat Phoenix. Would you like to guess what happens if Galactus nullified Death, Eternity, Chaos, or Order? When Eternity was in a catatonic state, every hero and a handful of high end cosmic pissed their pants trying to save Eternity cause they knew the universe was in peril.
Phoenix died more then once, came back easily when it choses, always ressurected itself, while Galactus died and Richardsl had to come to resurrect him.
Coming back after 150 years is NOT EASY or when it choses.
Galactus was defeated by Rachel (and it was normal Galactus,defeated extremely easily) and then said that Pheonix dry power from near-limitless source and doens't share Galactus problem.
It wasn't about role, but about greater power.
LOL. The Force took over and fought while Rachel was unconcious. And Galactus is no where near Eternity. Normal Galactus is about one Celestial in power, and the Celestials came into being from Eternity's unconciousness.
Originally posted by id369
@WhiteWitchKing, I don’t see how I am contradicting myself. If you are so reluctant to prove Eternity>PF why don’t post anything with a certain level of reliability that pertains to the subject at hand.
Here's the bio on the top cosmic and LT. Why you point me to where it says the Phoenix Force created or is related to them in anyway?
Death
http://img245.imageshack.us/my.php?image=death18it.jpg
http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=death23mx.jpg
Infinity
http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=infinity3uc.jpg
Living Tribunal
http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=livingtribunal14jr.jpg
http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=livingtribunal26bz.jpg
Eternity
http://img245.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eternity18pq.jpg
http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eternity21rt.jpg
Phoenix Force
http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=phoenixforce18cl.jpg
http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=phoenixforce28cr.jpg
Galactus
http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=galactus13lc.jpg
http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=galactus20kj.jpg
http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=galactus36tn.jpg
http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=galactus48gy.jpg
Know, my question still remains. What can Eternity do to PotWC while she is in the White Hot Room?
Beat it down like dirt. He did to Nightmare and Juggernaut in the dream world, where Nightmare was supreme. Juggernaut had escaped from the Crimson cosmos and power to stalemate Nightmare. Eternity beat both them just raising his hand. It like, how did Dr. Strange noted the fight?, "as easily as I might brush away...a FLY." (Dr. Strange #182)
Originally posted by Galan007
What can Phoenix do to Eternity?Phoenix has never been shown destroying anything close to an entire Universe, and she has been taken down by simple shi'ar weaponry.
To hype Phoenix up to where she is now more powerful then the embodiment of everyone/thing in a universe is rediculous.
That wasn't an answer to that question.
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
White Phoenix is just a part of his universe in other words just a part of him. He could easiley aborb her.
How, if she is in the White Hot Room. Yo don't know that and he wouldn't be able, while was already proved, Universe was in WPOTC reach.
And of course Eternity is not Omnipotent, as PF and LT are not.
Originally posted by Mr Master
The only time Eternity went to LT for help was during the Infinity Gem sagas.
Once he also went for help to the Phoenix Force.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Completely indestructable? Then why did it scream in pain when the Entity's ship drained it? It's not indestructible. When did Galactus meet Dark Phoenix or feared it? It never happened. Watcher can say all he wants but that's not how the cosmic treat Phoenix Force. The Tribunal is second, then comes Eternity or Multi-Eternity if you want to get specific. LT has always been second to TOAA.
I mean about tottally indestructible, ultimately PF always lives.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
LOL. Which only leads one to conclude Galactus can eat Phoenix.
You do know PF wasn't eaten, and I really think PF wouldn't gone.
Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Coming back after 150 years is NOT EASY or when it choses.
It came back when it choses.
And anyway Galactus joke. He has even lower showings than Phoenix and not close such high showings as PF.
Originally posted by Mr Master
the most the Phoenix Force has done is destroy an Alternate Reality (a What If Universe) and it destroyed Jean in the process.
Yes, but PF has continued to exist. And that feat can be counted when it comes to PF. And it did it easily.
And saving a reality (ultimately Multiverse, since would destroy whole Multiverse ultimately) before M'Kraan crystal is far greater feat.
Originally posted by XplosiveWhen?
Once he also went for help to the Phoenix Force.
Originally posted by XplosiveLower showings than the Phoenix? 😆
And anyway Galactus joke. He has even lower showings than Phoenix and not close such high showings as PF.
I don't know how lower you go than being taken down by a Shi'ar laserbeam.
Originally posted by XplosiveYet another myth perpetuated by Phoenix-fanboys...saving the M'Kraan Crystal, while on panel the crystal was clearly shown to have blown up.
Yes, but PF has continued to exist. And that feat can be counted when it comes to PF. And it did it easily.
And saving a reality (ultimately Multiverse, since would destroy whole Multiverse ultimately) before M'Kraan crystal is far greater feat.
Nice saving!
Originally posted by Xplosive
[B]I mean about tottally indestructible, ultimately PF always lives.
That's no indestructible. It's still vulnerable to attacks and can be contained. What's life if it's contained?
And if it comes back? Zaaap! Dead again! Come back? Zaaap! Dead again! A wins a win.
You do know PF wasn't eaten, and I really think PF wouldn't gone.
Wasn't eaten because Lilandra and Watcher beg Galactus not to do so. Watcher wouldn't ask Galactus not to if Galactus couldn't.
It came back when it choses.
Prove it! I have the book. Where in it does it say it chose to come back in 150 years?
And anyway Galactus joke. He has even lower showings than Phoenix and not close such high showings as PF.
Name them please. What showing is lower than getting killed by Magneto, drained by the Entity's ship, or getting killed by Shi'Ar lasers? And by the way, Galactus is still leagues below Eternity.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
She didn't beg though. The Omniversal Guardian does not beg.
Nope your right. She warned him: violate at your peril.
Add to what I said earlier, Death was also there and said that Galactus is changing/breaking the eternal pattern. In fact, they were there to convince Galactus not to do it. If he couldn't, they wouldn't have tried to talk him out of it.
Originally posted by celestialdemon
If healing Eternity is all you have, then that's nothing. Gamora rescued Eternity with Galactus' help. Does that make them more powerful than Eternity? And if holding Eternity (if that was really Eternity) in her hand is an indication of power, then that would mean the other avatars were more powerful than Eternity also, since they were big enough to do the same. Why do other avatars get owned by people nowhere near Eternity's power?In a straight up fight, Eternity has only been defeated by uber-powerful beings like IG, HOTU, and the Infinites (although technically not a battle).
Yes Gamora healed, Eternity and Phoenix healed Eternity but thats a very basic analysis of the two instances. Thats like me saying Rogue is as strong as Hulk because Rogue picked up a rock and Hulk picked up a rock, despite the fact that Rogues was a boulder and Hulks a mountain. 🤨
Gamora removed a mental block from the Eternity MBody thereby healing it or at least taking it out of its coma state.
Jean didnt mess around with an MBody, she amputated a dangerous future, she then manipulated the matter of the entire universe at an atomic level, materializing it and everything within, INTACT within the white hot room in the palm of her hand, Jean then finished off the process by altering past events to create a new future to replace the one she cut away.
Before any ignorant people say that the healing could have been achieved by any old time traveller and telepath, its worth noting that its not just the act of altering the past that was involved in the process its the aforementioned amputation of the very substance of time itself. A feat no being in Marvel has performed before, and of course the manipulation of all that makes up the universe. Just think of all the matter and energy contained within, all the planets, stars and galaxies and she broke that down to the atomic and materialized it within the WHR intact. To be able to do that shows you conclusively that she wields a power greater than that contained within said universe otherwise she would not have been able to do that. Both the time editing and the matter manipulation are what makes the healing process stand out.
Re: Re: The Phoenix Force vs. Eternity
Originally posted by Galan007
Phoenix has NEVER destroyed anything close to a universe on pannel, so exactly how is it going to defeat Eternity?
Ahhh, that explains things.. 😛
Or so you were incorrectly informed and so you naively swallowed. ❌
If you were to read the Thanos with IG Vs White Crown Phoenix thread, you would see that Phoenix has destroyed a universe on panel and Mr Master had access to that comic and was posting scans from it and yet mysteriously chose not to share the appropriate scans whilst continuing to claim the ignorance you just did.
As well as that, to be able to manipulate the matter of the universe in its totality, to break it down to its component atoms and then rematerialize it intact in the WHR, how could anyone argue that a being who could do that couldnt destroy that same universe if she felt like it? 😬
Do your own research. Dont just swallow what your forum friends tell you. 🙁
