The Phoenix Force vs. Eternity

Originally posted by Mr Master
The only time Eternity went to LT for help was during the Infinity Gem sagas.
(that would be TWICE, because of IG Thanos, and IG Warlock)

But LordKaos' point about Eternity always running around for help at the nearest hint of a threat still stands.

Phoenix healing itself from something Eternity was powerless against, before Eternity goes running to Phoenix to bail him out:

and once again:

Originally posted by Mr Master
During the Thanos with THOTI, it was LT that recruitied Eternity and everyone,
in FACT, Eternity attacked Thanos w/THOTI on his own.

Irrelevant when Eternity got stomped 😂

Originally posted by Mr Master
Not true.

"Those Entities don't care about this Universe, Entropy, Oblivion, Death, Life, they REMAIN CONSTANT through ANY Big Bang"

The Abstracts survive the "death of everything"

And yet that has shown not to be the case. Proshs words on that point are contradicted by Eternity who claims the Force gives birth to everything anew every cycle after the destruction of all that was before.

If the abstracts could easily survive the destruction of the universe then what have all the big sagas such as Secret Wars, the IG and HOTI been about? One sentence in contradiction with all that has come before and after does not continuity make. Learn that. 🙂

The abstracts are derivatives of the universe so of course they die upon its destruction.

That very same What If says that the Phoenix force has "Limits" and that it is possible to "Exceed them".

By the way, who's that floating head guy? Lord Order?

Originally posted by King Kandy
That very same What If says that the Phoenix force has "Limits" and that it is possible to "Exceed them".

By the way, who's that floating head guy? Lord Order?

I did a breakdown of nearly that whole comic in the Thanos Vs Phoenix thread. You must have missed that because you've misinterpreted what was there. Jean TEMPORARILY had limits because instead of killing herself she had a psychic lobotomy which weakened her and she said that at that moment in time she had limits and if there was anyone who could make her reach them at that point it was Galactus. However she also said that each time she used her powers they increased geometrically. She then defeated Galactus. Over the course of the comic her powers returned to their former levels she became Dark Phoenix and then consumed that reality. 😉

/\Oh my, and I thought I knew a thing or two about Phoenix.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

And yet that has shown not to be the case. Proshs words on that point are contradicted by Eternity who claims the Force gives birth to everything anew every cycle after the destruction of all that was before.

The Force gives birth to everything? Again your putting words in Eternity's mouth.

If the abstracts could easily survive the destruction of the universe then what have all the big sagas such as Secret Wars, the IG and HOTI been about? One sentence in contradiction with all that has come before and after does not continuity make. Learn that. 🙂

LOL. Yet you tried to use Prosh words to downplay that Lucifer surviving that demiurgic blast.

Secret Wars II - Beyonder could destroy everything including the abstracts.
Infinity Gauntlet - the IG can destroy them/control them
HOTU - same thing

Most of what you've listed has nothing to do with the universes end. Everything regard power, place in the hierarchy, jealously, fear, but neither Thanos or Beyonder wanted the universe destroyed. And in fact they could affect the abstracts. So whether or not the abstracts would be affected by the universe's end is not correlated with any of these stories.

The abstracts are derivatives of the universe so of course they die upon its destruction.

Only use the interpretations that suit you I see. Why didn't you come to this conclusion when arguing against Lucifer? Well, you are G.S.

It's a little bit deceptive to use anomolic showings, I mean Nebulous Stalemated the Living Tribunal, but no one thinks the LT is that weak...

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
The Force gives birth to everything? Again your putting words in Eternity's mouth.

Not in the slightest. Eternity says the Phoenix is the resurrection force as it brings about life anew from the ashes of the old. Thats in line with Strangers comments about the Force being the beginning and the end of the cycle. Both of those comments pertaining NOT to Strangers plans, but what ACTUALLY happens. Both comments are in line with a variety of comments and depictions ive posted from a variety of sources in the past stating the same thing. Kay? 😱

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
LOL. Yet you tried to use Prosh words to downplay that Lucifer surviving that demiurgic blast.

Secret Wars II - Beyonder could destroy everything including the abstracts.
Infinity Gauntlet - the IG can destroy them/control them
HOTU - same thing

Most of what you've listed has nothing to do with the universes end. Everything regard power, place in the hierarchy, jealously, fear, but neither Thanos or Beyonder wanted the universe destroyed. And in fact they could affect the abstracts. So whether or not the abstracts would be affected by the universe's end is not correlated with any of these stories.

Proshs words regarding the abstracts are at odds with all other continuity, that is fact. That is all that matters. No further comment is necessary. 🙂

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Only use the interpretations that suit you I see. Why didn't you come to this conclusion when arguing against Lucifer? Well, you are G.S.

Opinions changes over time, new comics come out, old ones are seen in a different light. A change of stance is completely ok if it is well supported and explained. What is not ok is wasting time debating on old and outdated issues to mask the lack of a credible argument 🙁

Welcome back GS...and I suggest you shit that little bug (LordKaos) out of your ass, before something bad happens. 😱

Originally posted by Lord S
Welcome back GS...and I suggest you shit that little bug (LordKaos) out of your ass, before something bad happens. 😱

😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

Nice to see you, GS.

Originally posted by guy222
I am taking the Phoenix Force. Lets hear from some Eternity winners 🙂

Thank u for the responses. Learning a lot about two of the most powerful beings in Marvel

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Or so you were incorrectly informed and so you naively swallowed.

If you were to read the Thanos with IG Vs White Crown Phoenix thread, you would see that Phoenix has destroyed a universe on panel and Mr Master had access to that comic and was posting scans from it and yet mysteriously chose not to share the appropriate scans whilst continuing to claim the ignorance you just did.

😆

Ol' GS is back at it again:

Originally posted by Mr Master
Yet, I challenge you to find ONE issue in which Phoenix created any Universe,

the most the Phoenix Force has done is destroy an Alternate Reality (a What If Universe) and it destroyed Jean in the process.

Phoenix in any form, has NEVER destroyed, remade or created 616 Eternity/Universe on panel.

The actual Phoenix Force, (NOT Jean or any other) destroyed a What If universe ONCE On panel. (Jean was destroyed by the Force)

"the Phoenix Force ENGULFS Her, and continues to spread and grow until it ENGULFS the entire City"

Long live What If's ... 😂

And since it was the Phoenix Force, NOT Jean, then this feat is inconsequential because:

In it's Natural State the Phoenix is UNAWARE of it's Own Existence

The Phoenix Force has NO CONSCIOUSNESS in it's Natural State

Can't be used as an opponent anyways.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As well as that, to be able to manipulate the matter of the universe in its totality, to break it down to its component atoms and then rematerialize it intact in the WHR, how could anyone argue that a being who could do that couldnt destroy that same universe if she felt like it?

Only that Jean did no such thing, you make it sound like what you wish it to, but the fact is,

it TOOK Jean TIME to amputate that Timeline, X-Men were getting killed by Sublime like Wolverine,

and Jean still couldn't do anything, she even said, "Actually, what's happening here is a Coordinated Disinfection, my Friends were only keeping you busy"

Next Scene:

"Surgery Complete"

We NEVER see Jean again until,

"Some KIND of Bacteria Colony gone rogue...I had to Amputate the whole Future"

Jean is told, "Phoenix DISINFECTION Successful"

all that time she was in the act of amputating the future timeline (yet you always say she "casually amputated the future." ) 😖hifty:

Wasn't "casually at all."

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Do your own research. Dont just swallow what your forum friends tell you.

Yes, that way he will know it was a WHAT IF comic book, and not a more credible source.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Phoenix healing itself from something Eternity was powerless against, before Eternity goes running to Phoenix to bail him out:

You keep throwing these scans around, as proof of Phoenix healing Eternity, but in FACT, Phoenix NEVER healed or repaired Eternity.

"by passing through the 'Scar of Eternity' .. the STILL-HEALING Tear in the Space/Time Continuum CAUTERIZED by the Phoenix"

CAUTERIZED: burn the skin or flesh of (a wound) with a heated instrument, to stop bleeding or prevent the wound from becoming infected.

"How HEALS your INJURY?"

"Your concern does me honor Tribunal, the WOUND is closing slowly"

Here is the actual OPEN SCAR in the actual Universe, which is, has and always will be Eternity:

"the One Who Knows (Stakar and Aleta) Enters the SCAR of Eternity"

"Behold the Raw Tissue Fiber of Existence, Eternity slowly HEALS from the Wound, which were CAUTERIZED by Giraud, carrier of the Phoenix power"

CAUTERIZED: burn the skin or flesh of (a wound) with a heated instrument, to stop bleeding or prevent the wound from becoming infected.

Evidently, Eternity HEALS himself!

"Incredible, REALITY literally REGENERATING ITSELF, Pure Creation"

"the Journey through the Scar is at an end, let's see what lies Beyond Eternity"

When they go Beyond the Scar of Universe, they exit Eternity (who IS the Universe)

Eternity STILL had his Tear/Scar in the Space/Continuum, after Phoenix did it's job.

Eternity was STILL healing, after Phoenix did it's job.

Eternity healed on his own WITHOUT Phoenix.

yawn

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Yes Gamora healed, Eternity and Phoenix healed Eternity but thats a very basic analysis of the two instances. Thats like me saying Rogue is as strong as Hulk because Rogue picked up a rock and Hulk picked up a rock, despite the fact that Rogues was a boulder and Hulks a mountain.

😆

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Gamora removed a mental block from the Eternity MBody thereby healing it or at least taking it out of its coma state.

Eternity M-body my ass,

Gamora entered the M-body of Eternity and ended up INSIDE the actual UNIVERSE:

"Go forth Woman, this day you are a HEALER, your PATIENT: ALL REALITY"

INSIDE the actual Universe Gamora HEALED Eternity.

Don't play yourself.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Jean didnt mess around with an MBody, she amputated a dangerous future, she then manipulated the matter of the entire universe at an atomic level, materializing it and everything within, INTACT within the white hot room in the palm of her hand,

😂

Where is it ever mentioned that Jean manipulated a Universe at the atomic level?

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

In your dreams Jean materialzed a Universe in the palm of her hands, in the comic book, Jean DIDN'T even KNOW what the heck was in her hands:

Phoenix is CLUELESS as to WHAT this is, or WHAT to do with it.

Jean says, "Did I have to FIX something that was dying?

What is it?"

It tells her, "A badly wounded Orphan Universe...Phoenix work"

Fine.....Now WHAT does that mean?....Jean Grey DOESN'T KNOW either.

AM I LYING? LOOK AT THE SCAN!!!

"But...but WHAT's that supposed to mean?

Phoenix asked, "but what's that supposed to mean?"

AFTER She was told it's a "A badly wounded Orphan Universe...Phoenix work"

Now, it TELLS Phoenix WHAT THAT MEANS,

"That Henry's heart's broken, that Scott succumbs to loneliness", ect..ect..

Is it saying,

"This Universe needs to be Fixed in anyway?" NO!

"This Universe is injured or damaged and needs to be repaired?" NO!

"This Universe needs a Future?" NO!

So WHAT does it SAY WHEN Jean ASKED "but what's that supposed to mean?"

It responds, "That Henry's heart's broken, that Scott succumbs to loneliness", ect..ect..
(This is the OUTCOME of Here Comes Tomorrow)

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Jean then finished off the process by altering past events to create a new future to replace the one she cut away.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
its worth noting that its not just the act of altering the past that was involved in the process its the aforementioned amputation of the very substance of time itself.

NOW, to Change that OUTCOME, Phoenix did NOT manipulate the Universe.

AM I LYING?

Here is GRANT MORRISON'S and company telling us HOW Phoenix CHANGED that Future. (from the actual questionnaires addressed to the WIRTERS themselves on the back of New-Xmen #155)

Just like in the Comic book, which anyone can see as plain as day.

She actually went to the past and forced Scott to be with Emma

So INSTEAD of THIS Ending:

We NOW have THIS Ending:

In order to PREVENT the events of "Here Comes Tomorrow"

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
A feat no being in Marvel has performed before, and of course the manipulation of all that makes up the universe. Just think of all the matter and energy contained within, all the planets, stars and galaxies and she broke that down to the atomic and materialized it within the WHR intact.

Jean NEVER manipulated any Universe, Jean REPAIRED (with the help of the WHR) a future timeline at the atomic level, and it WASN'T EASY for her:

Phoenix asks, "Is this the Future?"

It tells her, "You lost concentration, Shock almost killed it" (the FUTURE)

Did she not just ask, "is this the Future?"

And was she not just responded to with, "You lost concentration, Shock almost killed it?"

NOW:

It continues to say, "Patient will die unless internal heart damage repaired"

The "Patient" is the FUTURE still at this point EVIDENTLY.

Which is why Phoenix says, "But it didn't have to END like that, my Friends didn't deserve that." (some even died),

DIDN'T DESERVE WHAT?

THIS....(the FUTURE THAT IS NOW) The events of Here Comes Tomorrow like Grant Morrison said.

WHEN Phoenix Amputated the Future it was only to DISINFECT the Future

Here Phoenix says, "Some KIND of Bacteria Colony gone rogue...I had to Amputate the whole Future"

Jean is told, "Phoenix DISINFECTION Successful"

We know that by Phoenix cutting off the Future, the Infection, which was Sublime, was destroyed,

but the EVENTS that took place, have NOT been changed.
(hence the Future THAT is NOW, is STILL, Here Comes Tomorrow)

OK NOW THIS is WHERE Jean is REPAIRING the FUTURE she damage while DISINFECTING it.

It then says, "No, Turn around, No End yet, there, Turn, Here before always, HOSPITAL White Hot

This is ACTUALLY the process taking place of a FUTURE being Repaired,

The "the Claw" takes the Future into the "HOSPITAL, White Hot Room"

As You Can SEE, around the Pink Crystal Power is Flowing, that's Phoenix REPAIRING the FUTURE

THEN

Jean loses concentration "IN THERE" (Inside the White Hot Room) and she is reminded to "Now heal wound MAKE Better FUTURE QUICKLY"

"Heart got stuck", (Because she Wasn't concentrating) Turn (some kinda White Hot Room code word for, "keep on fixing"😉

MAKE BETTER WHAT?

FUTURE!!!

HOW can Phoenix be INSIDE the White Hot Room, while being clearly OUTSIDE it when she says, "LOST CONCENTRATION IN THERE"?

The White Hot Room, is the HEART of the Phoenix, that's HOW:

AFTER Phoenix Repairs the Future in the White Hot Room (Her Heart)

NEXT PANEL:

"Telekinetic control of all those Atoms at once isn't as easy as it sounds in training, NOT even for a White Phoenix of the Crown..."

"Telekinetic control of all those Atoms?".......

of WHAT Atoms?

The ONLY action I've seen, is A Future being Repaired.

It's actually talking about the FUTURE that was just Repaired.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
To be able to do that shows you conclusively that she wields a power greater than that contained within said universe otherwise she would not have been able to do that.

What Jean REALLY did, was not that impressing.

There have been plenty of cats that have erased a Universe and remade it, or even created one from scratch, with a thought.

Jean Repaired a timeline, and NEEDED the WHR to do it.

Jean altered the past in the weakest of ways, NOT with a thought like many others can do, Jean had to go back in time and CHANGE Scotts mind about Emma so that the events of Here Comes Tomorrow would not unfold.

And again, Jean NEEDED the WHR room for this too.

"Live Scott"

A little Mind control, some Time travel, and you can Alter the Future too.

No more Phoenix reforming Universes in the hand claims. Thank you.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Both the time editing and the matter manipulation are what makes the healing process stand out.

Jean NEVER ended time, and Jean NEVER manipulated the Universe.

Mr. Master stop it it you raping him! Just kidding. but seriously, I think I underestimated you O.o

Mr master if you accept that the white hot room is the heart of the phoneix then must also accept that it is the core of creation. The part of the scan you left out from the same page.

All your points regarding the Phoenix What If where you fabricate Jean got destroyed by the Phoenix in that What If and where you illustrate your ignorance for the character by claiming the Phoenix Force cant be used as an opponent have been previously dealt with here:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/426282_14-thanos-with-ig-vs-white-crown-phoenix

Address the points dont run off into another threads to repost your rubbish. ❌

Originally posted by Mr Master
You keep throwing these scans around, as proof of Phoenix healing Eternity, but in FACT, Phoenix NEVER healed or repaired Eternity.

Eternity STILL had his Tear/Scar in the Space/Continuum, after Phoenix did it's job.

Eternity was STILL healing, after Phoenix did it's job.

Eternity healed on his own WITHOUT Phoenix.

yawn

Silly boy. 😉

Had Phoenix not closed his wound then Eternity would have died and as Eternity claimed, only the power of Phoenix was up to the task.

Notice the other people suggested 😖hifty:

The fact that Eternity was still healing afterwards is irrelevant. Without Phoenixes power, he would have died and it was only through Phoenixes power that he could have survived.

If you get a gaping hole blown through your body, the hospital performs surgery, closes your wound and it takes you weeks to heal, but heal you do, can you turn around and discount the importance of the hospitals role in your survival? 🙄

Again, silly boy. 😂