Sith'ari Speculation
So who do you think it is? If you don't know what the prophecy of the sith'ari entails, check this out - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith%27ari .
Sith'ari Speculation
So who do you think it is? If you don't know what the prophecy of the sith'ari entails, check this out - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith%27ari .
Originally posted by Blue_Hefner
Pretty sure it make be Jacen, but we'll just have to see when these stupid authors decide to stop bringing Sith back just to keep the story going on.
Since when did Jacen has been considered in the list of suitable candidates for Sith'ari?
Only the above 3 mentioned characters are suitable candidates.
But chances of Revan and Bane are high.
Originally posted by General Kenobl
Either....- Bane
- Revan
- Vader
It'd be really crazy if it was Vader. Seeing as how he was both the Jedi's Chosen One and the Sith's Sith'ari. It'd show once again how similar the Jedi and the Sith are in every single way except for their view on use/purpose of the Force.
Originally posted by Sexyback
Why Revan, though? The explanation on wookie didn't even make sense.
I suppose Revan could be a candidate; he meets the criteria, does he not?
Though it's not definate, I believe the obvious candidate for Sith'ari would be Bane. He destroyed the Sith, ultimately, to make them stronger (remember that, Planet, the next time you try to argue Bane > Sidious... the entire purpose of the Sith'ari was to make the Sith "stronger"...).
Vader can't be the Sith'ari, I don't think. He's the Chosen One. A destiny greater than the Sith'ari's own. He destroyed the Sith completely, lol. He didn't make them stronger.
(remember that, Planet, the next time you try to argue Bane > Sidious... the entire purpose of the Sith'ari was to make the Sith "stronger"...)
It was supposed to ensure that the sith only got more powerful in theory, but that was working under the assumption that the apprentice killed the master only when s/he became more powerful, and in practise, you can't say for sure that that happened. Hell, Sidious himself was forced to kill his master in his sleep, hardly a showing of superiority in respect to combat. The fact is, the system was flawed.
Originally posted by Gideon
I suppose Revan could be a candidate; he meets the criteria, does he not?Though it's not definate, I believe the obvious candidate for Sith'ari would be Bane. He destroyed the Sith, ultimately, to make them stronger (remember that, Planet, the next time you try to argue Bane > Sidious... the entire purpose of the Sith'ari was to make the Sith "stronger"...).
Vader can't be the Sith'ari, I don't think. He's the Chosen One. A destiny greater than the Sith'ari's own. He destroyed the Sith completely, lol. He didn't make them stronger.
Revan isn't the Sith'ari. Revan eventually "found redemption" in the Light. I highly doubt that the Sith's "Chosen One" would become a follower of the Light. That's not bad ass at all, and if the Sith are anything, they are bad ass.
I don't even see Bane being the Sith'ari.
Originally posted by Wookieepedia
the Sith'ari was prophesied a perfect being—the ultimate Sith—free of all restrictions who would rise to power to lead the Sith and, according to the legend, destroy them—yet, through their destruction, make them stronger than ever.
Originally posted by Sexyback
It was supposed to ensure that the sith only got more powerful in theory, but that was working under the assumption that the apprentice killed the master [b]only when s/he became more powerful, and in practise, you can't say for sure that that happened. Hell, Sidious himself was forced to kill his master in his sleep, hardly a showing of superiority in respect to combat. The fact is, the system was flawed. [/B]
Nice excuse.
Where was it identified that Sidious was "forced" to kill Plagueis in his sleep? Simply because he chose to, instead of having a fight to the death, doesn't mean that he absolutely had to. In fact, if anything, Sidious would have tried to learn everything possible from Plagueis before he executed him - it's in his character. He's a parasite of information. It's also in Sidious's character to capitalize on a weakness. Likely, he saw his master sleeping, knew the potential risk of facing him in combat, and decided that killing him in his sleep would be the best option. Face it, that's what Sidious does. He operates through deceit, manipulation, and exploits weaknesses first and foremost.
Bane and Revan certainly seemed to think that the system would work better than anything else - as did Sidious himself. So you have two of the most intelligent SW characters and Bane believing that it worked. The only time that it failed is when one of the Sith would be redeemed.
Originally posted by Sexyback
Why Revan, though? The explanation on wookie didn't even make sense.
He achieved almost all those things that a DLOTS would dream about.
- He freed himself from the restrictions imposed on him by Jedi Council and defied the Council, when the time was right.
- He was learning a lot about Ancient Sith in quest for greater power.
- He had perfect strength and power to defeat many powerful individuals.
- His destiny was also bright (even as a Sith). He managed to built a huge and powerful Empire as an indication.
- He was the perfect leader of a perfect Sith Empire.
Then came the betrayal and things changed. Revan destoyed the very Evil that he had created, but his PAST actions already had made the same Evil to return to haunt the Republic in POST-KOTOR period in the shape of 3 powerful Sith Lords.
1- Darth Traya
2- Darth Nihilus
3- Darth Sion
More information:
Following the victory at Malachor, Revan departed with a third of the remaining Republic fleet into the Unknown Regions, claiming that he was hunting down surviving remains of the Mandalorians. In reality, he was amassing his forces to prepare for a conquest of the Republic.
The concentrated deaths of so many Jedi, Mandalorians, and Republic soldiers all at once created a powerful Wound in the Force, resulting in the Jedi Exile purposely severing all ties with the Force. More sinisterly, it was Malachor that had marked Revan's final descent into a darkness, a journey that would at last be completed when the former Jedi hero declared himself Dark Lord of the Sith. His fall sent his Jedi Master, Kreia, in search of answers. She found them at the Trayus Academy.
From the ashes of Malachor V arose two powerful Sith Lords: Darth Sion the Lord of Pain and Darth Nihilus the Lord of Hunger. Trained by Kreia, now known as Darth Traya, they nearly brought about the complete and utter destruction of the Jedi Order.
And both Sith Lords: Sion and Nihilus almost hunted Jedi to extinction.
Revan is indeed a suitable candidate. His actions automatically made Sith stronger, as we see in KOTOR II.
Originally posted by Gideon
Nice excuse.
Now now, is this attitude really necessary?
Where was it identified that Sidious was "forced" to kill Plagueis in his sleep? Simply because he chose to, instead of having a fight to the death, doesn't mean that he absolutely had to. In fact, if anything, Sidious would have tried to learn everything possible from Plagueis before he executed him - it's in his character. He's a parasite of information. It's also in Sidious's character to capitalize on a weakness. Likely, he saw his master sleeping, knew the potential risk of facing him in combat, and decided that killing him in his sleep would be the best option. Face it, that's what Sidious does. He operates through deceit, manipulation, and exploits weaknesses first and foremost.
Maybe the 'forced' was a bit uncalled for, but the fact is, when Bane came up with the plan, he was working under the assumption that the apprentice would only kill the master when they became stronger, I was just pointing out that Sidious' situation is proof that there are ways around that and that the apprentice wouldn't necessarily have to be more powerful in that sense.
Bane and Revan certainly seemed to think that the system would work better than anything else - as did Sidious himself. So you have two of the most intelligent SW characters and Bane believing that it worked. The only time that it failed is when one of the Sith would be redeemed.
There are many flaws in the system, Gideon.
1. If the master is so much stronger than the apprentice that the apprentice is never able to defeat the master, and the master dies naturally.
2. If the apprentice uses assassination to defeat the master before s/he has become more powerful.
3. If the weaker of the sith seeks allies to defeat the stronger.
Face it, the system alone in no way proves that Palpatine would have to be the strongest of that particular lineage.
Now now, is this attitude really necessary?
Is your typical, whiney demands for "proof!" necessary? Or your constant exaggerations? Or your constant dismissal of canon standpoints that you don't agree with?
Maybe the 'forced' was a bit uncalled for, but the fact is, when Bane came up with the plan, he was working under the assumption that the apprentice would only kill the master when they became stronger, I was just pointing out that Sidious' situation is proof that there are ways around that and that the apprentice wouldn't necessarily have to be more powerful in that sense.
You've yet to prove that Sidious wasn't already more powerful than his master when he chose to kill him.
There are many flaws in the system, Gideon.
I never said that the system was flawless - every system has flaws. But this one is more effective.
1. If the master is so much stronger than the apprentice that the apprentice is never able to defeat the master, and the master dies naturally.
When has a situation such as this been shown? Likewise, I'm certain that the "power" of masters and apprentices varied with each pair. What is important is the "knowledge" passed. Innate power and potential can't be adjusted or helped (unless you're Plagueis, and possibly, Sidious). But the amount and use of Sith knowledge and training can be.
2. If the apprentice uses assassination to defeat the master before s/he has become more powerful.
I don't believe any Sith would attack their master before they were certain that they had learned everything that the master themselves knew - or everything that they could learn. Bane knew that he couldn't defeat the Republic or the Jedi, as such, I don't think he intentionally withheld knowledge or power or refused to teach his apprentice everything when in the face of a greater goal.
3. If the weaker of the sith seeks allies to defeat the stronger.
When has this been shown? Again, no apprentice would likely strike the master down 'til he or she was certain that they knew everything that was necessary - or everything that was relinquished to them.
Face it, the system alone in no way proves that Palpatine would have to be the strongest of that particular lineage.
Please. Extremely knowledgeable historians such as the author of tNEC seemed to believe that Sidious was the most powerful. The Ancient Sith on Korriban knew that Sidious "gave himself completely to the dark side, long ago". LoE states that "the dark side gained strength with the coming of Darth Sidious". Dooku says he would never in his dreams question "the power of Darth Sidious. The dark secrets at his command." And, the Dark Side Sourcebook makes it clear that Sidious was the most powerful Sith Lord in Bane's lineage - and that he alone was the one "born with the power" to complete the Dark Side's ultimate victory, according to the RotS visual guide.
Originally posted by Gideon
Nice excuse.Where was it identified that Sidious was "forced" to kill Plagueis in his sleep? Simply because he chose to, instead of having a fight to the death, doesn't mean that he absolutely had to. In fact, if anything, Sidious would have tried to learn everything possible from Plagueis before he executed him - it's in his character. He's a parasite of information. It's also in Sidious's character to capitalize on a weakness. Likely, he saw his master sleeping, knew the potential risk of facing him in combat, and decided that killing him in his sleep would be the best option. Face it, that's what Sidious does. He operates through deceit, manipulation, and exploits weaknesses first and foremost.
Bane and Revan certainly seemed to think that the system would work better than anything else - as did Sidious himself. So you have two of the most intelligent SW characters and Bane believing that it worked. The only time that it failed is when one of the Sith would be redeemed.
Do not pay attention to Planet, he just like wasting text.. Anyways, the most likely candidate would be Bane. He did exactly what the sith'ari is supposed to do. Revan could be right behind Bane because he DID destroy the sith, but they got stronger after he disappeared, so it was inadvertant, so he's less likely than Bane. Vader? Please. The chosen one can't be the sith'ari. Jacen? You forget the sith died with Vader and Sidious, so everyone else, including Jacen, parades around the title meaninglessly.
Revan as the Sith'Ari
Revan is a strong candidate for the position of the Sith'Ari. The prophecy of the Sith'Ari is a "perfect being free of all restrictions who would rise to power and, according to the legend, destroy the Sith—yet, through their destruction, make them stronger than ever."
Revan was a promising Jedi. As a Knight he led the Jedi and the Republic against the Mandalorians, proving himself to be one of the greatest military leaders of all time. When he fell with his friend Malak, he became a deadly Sith Lord.
Darth Revan rose to power and gathered a Sith Empire powerful to challenge the Republic. He nearly brought the Jedi Order to an end. After Malak's betrayal, Revan became involved in the quest for the Star Forge. He ultimately became a prodigal knight and turned Darth Bastila back to the light (and stop the BM helping the Sith Fleet, thus exposing them to the Capital Ships).
Because of him, the almighty Sith Empire was destroyed. However, he made the Sith stronger. His rise and fall and rise again made the Republic and thus helped the rise of the Sith Tirumvirate (Nihilus, Traya, Sion).
In additon, he is one who helped the Sith rise in the thousands years to come. He was the sole influence who made Bane stronger. He gave Bane the Rule of the Two, and thus the Sith were able to rule the galaxy
I think it is Bane. Bane's novel, PoD mentions the Sith'ari several times. Bane himself has done things that are recounted as per the Sith'ari prophecy, to destroy both orders and rebuild the Sith anew.
Revan gave some of the theory to Bane on building the order. It was ultimately Bane who implemented the rule of two.
Originally posted by General Kenobl
[B]Revan as the Sith'AriRevan is a strong candidate for the position of the Sith'Ari. The prophecy of the Sith'Ari is a "perfect being free of all restrictions who would rise to power and, according to the legend, destroy the Sith—yet, through their destruction, make them stronger than ever."
Revan was a promising Jedi. As a Knight he led the Jedi and the Republic against the Mandalorians, proving himself to be one of the greatest military leaders of all time. When he fell with his friend Malak, he became a deadly Sith Lord.
Darth Revan rose to power and gathered a Sith Empire powerful to challenge the Republic. He nearly brought the Jedi Order to an end. After Malak's betrayal, Revan became involved in the quest for the Star Forge. He ultimately became a prodigal knight and turned Darth Bastila back to the light (and stop the BM helping the Sith Fleet, thus exposing them to the Capital Ships).
Because of him, the almighty Sith Empire was destroyed. However, he made the Sith stronger. His rise and fall and rise again made the Republic and thus helped the rise of the Sith Tirumvirate (Nihilus, Traya, Sion).
In additon, he is one who helped the Sith rise in the thousands years to come. He was the sole influence who made Bane stronger. He gave Bane the Rule of the Two, and thus the Sith were able to rule the galaxy [/B]
Again, Revan COULD be a likely candidate for the position of the sith'ari, but after Adas, the prophecy revealed there would be 1 sith'ari, and not more. With that said, Bane makes a better candidate than Revan because he himself destroyed the sith and he himself made them stronger. Revan turned back to the light side to destroy the sith, and inadvertantly made them stronger, yet the Exile finished them off, so Revan couldn't be the sith'ari.
Originally posted by Gideon
Is your typical, whiney demands for "proof!" necessary?
Why yes. 🙂
Or your constant exaggerations?
Loving the hypocrisy
Or your constant dismissal of canon standpoints that you don't agree with?
I don't dismiss them, I just work around them.
You've yet to prove that Sidious wasn't already more powerful than his master when he chose to kill him.
You miss my point. My point was that the system alone didn't ensure that the apprentice killed the master only when they became more powerful. Sidious' example was an example of how that is so.
I never said that the system was flawless - every system has flaws. But this one is more effective.
I disagree. This is SW, so naturally logic doesn't always apply, but the fact that the order survived for so long with so few actual sith lords is very unrealistic.
When has a situation such as this been shown?
Does it have to have been shown to make sense for you Gideon?
Likewise, I'm certain that the "power" of masters and apprentices varied with each pair. What is important is the "knowledge" passed. Innate power and potential can't be adjusted or helped (unless you're Plagueis, and possibly, Sidious). But the amount and use of Sith knowledge and training can be.
This is nice and all, but irrelevant.
I don't believe any Sith would attack their master before they were certain that they had learned everything that the master themselves knew - or everything that they could learn. Bane knew that he couldn't defeat the Republic or the Jedi, as such, I don't think he intentionally withheld knowledge or power or refused to teach his apprentice everything when in the face of a greater goal.
Not all sith are craving of knowledge like Sidious.
Again, no apprentice would likely strike the master down 'til he or she was certain that they knew everything that was necessary - or everything that was relinquished to them.
A Darth Maul like apprentice likely wouldn't care.
Please. Extremely knowledgeable historians such as the author of tNEC seemed to believe that Sidious was the most powerful.
By RotS, specifically, which is absurd. Again, Vor'en Naal's opinion is fallible, no better than mine or your's.
The Ancient Sith on Korriban knew that Sidious "gave himself completely to the dark side, long ago".
He was one dedicated SoB, I'm not disputing that.
LoE states that "the dark side gained strength with the coming of Darth Sidious".
So it gained strength, so what? Considering how weak it already was, this is no big deal.
Dooku says he would never in his dreams question "the power of Darth Sidious. The dark secrets at his command."
Dooku is a relative weakling.
And, the Dark Side Sourcebook makes it clear that Sidious was the most powerful Sith Lord in Bane's lineage
Not purely in respect to combat, you can whine all you want about the guys at EoD and how double standards, but the fact is, power is ambiguous, and in the context it was written, where intelligence was listed as his greatest weapon, I'm gonna go with my interpretation.
and that he alone was the one "born with the power" to complete the Dark Side's ultimate victory, according to the RotS visual guide.
He was one intelligence SoB, I won't deny it, he had the mind and dedication to do that.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Again, Revan COULD be a likely candidate for the position of the sith'ari, but after Adas, the prophecy revealed there would be 1 sith'ari, and not more. With that said, Bane makes a better candidate than Revan because he himself destroyed the sith and he himself made them stronger. Revan turned back to the light side to destroy the sith, and inadvertantly made them stronger, yet the Exile finished them off, so Revan couldn't be the sith'ari.
More is to be revealed yet.