Eh. It's no use denying that a lot of Christians seem more concerned with the Epistles then the Gospels. Jesus never mentioned homosexuality, Jesus never talked about gender barriers in the clergy, or implied anything about "a women's place"--in other words, a lot of the things that Fundamentalists get up in arms about are so un-Fundamental to Christianity that Jesus never even bothers mentioning them. I can readilly understand how debbijo could find that irritating. I myself agree that we could do with a little more "love thy neighbor as thyself" and a little less "women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefastness and sobriety."
Still, that's no reason to obsess over it.
Re: Paulianity
Originally posted by Nellinator
Anyone else want to join?
I am also accepting members to my other religions of Johnianity, Petertology, Matthewism, and Lukism.
Funny thread. However, no one single person did more for the spread of Christianity than Paul. According to history, he and Peter fought about their ideals.
Originally posted by Gregory
Eh. It's no use denying that a lot of Christians seem more concerned with the Epistles then the Gospels. Jesus never mentioned homosexuality, Jesus never talked about gender barriers in the clergy, or implied anything about "a women's place"--in other words, a lot of the things that Fundamentalists get up in arms about are so un-Fundamental to Christianity that Jesus never even bothers mentioning them. I can readilly understand how debbijo could find that irritating. I myself agree that we could do with a little more "love thy neighbor as thyself" and a little less "women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefastness and sobriety."Still, that's no reason to obsess over it.
Originally posted by BobbyD
Funny thread. However, no one single person did more for the spread of Christianity than Paul. According to history, he and Peter fought about their ideals.
Originally posted by BobbyD
Funny thread. However, no one single person did more for the spread of Christianity than Paul.
* true...
Originally posted by BobbyD
According to history, he and Peter fought about their ideals.
* untrue... Saint Paul only opposed Saint Peter one time when they met in Antioch (Galatians 2:11-onwards)... Saint Peter used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision... the rest of the Jews joined Saint Peter in hypocrisy, with the result that even Saint Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy... then Saint Paul interfered and withstood against the wrongdoing of Saint Peter... but other than that, both of them are in good terms, Saint Peter even spoke highly of Saint Paul...
"And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
Speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures."
II Peter 3:15-16
Originally posted by Gregory
Eh. It's no use denying that a lot of Christians seem more concerned with the Epistles then the Gospels. Jesus never mentioned homosexuality, Jesus never talked about gender barriers in the clergy, or implied anything about "a women's place"--in other words, a lot of the things that Fundamentalists get up in arms about are so un-Fundamental to Christianity that Jesus never even bothers mentioning them. I can readilly understand how debbijo could find that irritating. I myself agree that we could do with a little more "love thy neighbor as thyself" and a little less "women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefastness and sobriety."Still, that's no reason to obsess over it.
* a big misinterpretation... the Gospel of Christ is mainly for the unbelievers/non-believers... and the epistles/letters of Saint Paul are for the brethren inside the Church... there's no conflict... 😉
I have misinterpreted nothing; you are being oversimplistic. There is no indication that the Gospels are aimed at nonbelievers; they don't even sound like they're written for that purpose, to my ear. Luke, in fact, is specifically being written to someone who has already been instructed in Christianity, according to the first verse.
So ... no.
(On the other hand, the Epistles are certainly aimed at Christians, and specific groups of Christians at that, as you say. That's undeniable)
* the 4 Gospels are basically the lifestory of Jesus Christ here on earth... both for believers and unbelievers... but just look at the words of Jesus... majority of them was for the Jews who don't believe in Him... the Jews who always stick to the Mosaic law... people who are not yet converted and not yet a follower of Christ... and there's still no conflict... 😉
The majority of them were intended, when they were written down, for the followers of Jesus. All of them, as a matter of fact. Will we discount the Great Commandment because Jesus was talking to a scribe at the time, and quoted OT scriptures? Nonsense. I'm not even sure what you're talking about at this point.
You're the one who started talking about conflicts between Jesus and Paul. Not me. I don't know if Paul and Jesus conflic. I don't care if Paul and Jesus conflict. But I know that a lot of fundamentalists who are very quick to bring up Paul's teachings when it comes to making their wives stay in the kitchen and shut up are just as slow to remember Jesus' teachings when it comes to loving their enemies and being brothers to people with different religious beliefs (e.g. the Good Samaritan). A lot of fundamentalists get into screaming rages about homosexuality, even though Paul is the only NT character to even mention it, but when televangelists get rich, they don't bat an eye. Jesus said it's hard for rich men to get into heaven? Who's this Jesus character? Too much Paul, not enough Jesus. That's what I said.
Also, winking smilies are vulger and offensive, and I wish you'd stop doing that.
Originally posted by GregoryThis is the point of the thread really. However, the gospels seem to be for both believers and non-believers. They are the most important thing in the Bible.
Jesus said it's hard for rich men to get into heaven? Who's this Jesus character? Too much Paul, not enough Jesus. That's what I said.
Originally posted by Gregory
The majority of them were intended, when they were written down, for the followers of Jesus. All of them, as a matter of fact. Will we discount the Great Commandment because Jesus was talking to a scribe at the time, and quoted OT scriptures? Nonsense. I'm not even sure what you're talking about at this point.
* yeah... i think i was kinda lost now... 😆
Originally posted by Gregory
You're the one who started talking about conflicts between Jesus and Paul. Not me. I don't know if Paul and Jesus conflic. I don't care if Paul and Jesus conflict. But I know that a lot of fundamentalists who are very quick to bring up Paul's teachings when it comes to making their wives stay in the kitchen and shut up are just as slow to remember Jesus' teachings when it comes to loving their enemies and being brothers to people with different religious beliefs (e.g. the Good Samaritan). A lot of fundamentalists get into screaming rages about homosexuality, even though Paul is the only NT character to even mention it, but when televangelists get rich, they don't bat an eye. Jesus said it's hard for rich men to get into heaven? Who's this Jesus character? Too much Paul, not enough Jesus. That's what I said.
* back in the game... too much Paul, not enough Jesus... the reason is, Saint Paul's epistles are mainly for the brethren inside the Church... and many religious denominations use these epistles because they thought they are inside the the true Church in the Bible...
* however, using or abiding the epistles of Saint Paul does not mean discounting or overlooking Jesus... because Jesus said Himself:
"He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."
Luke 10:16
"He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives him who sent me."
Matthew 10:40
* and Jesus even commanded His apostles this:
"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."
Matthew 28:19-20
* and i believe Saint Paul was one of Jesus' followers who obeyed this commandment...
"If any man thinketh himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him take knowledge of the things which I write unto you, that they are the commandment of the Lord."
I Corinthians 14:37
Originally posted by Gregory
Also, winking smilies are vulger and offensive, and I wish you'd stop doing that.
* you are offended by winking smilies? i hope you're joking... 🙁
But Paul was telling people how to run their churches and communities. As I recall, he really didn't give much moral advise, and when people slavishly follow Paul's advise about how to run a church while ignoring Jesus' message--and I think we can all agree that people shouldn't do this, but we can probably also agree that a lot of people do (Phelps, to pick an extreme example)--then you're essentially back to OT legalism; and lord knows that isn't what Jesus was supposed to stand for.
(And you can use whatever smilies make you happy.)