Spider-Man vs Wolverine: Slugfest

Started by jinzin22 pages
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Was that before or after he was digging up his mothers grave? Because he had Spiderman at his mercy several times.

once during the fight in the wherehouse and again at the end of the series before carnage got blasted to kingdom come.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
It's inconsistent because.

1.You're saying that those said characters can dodge better than Spiderman.

it's inconsistant because I said something? 😕

anyways.. no that's not what I was saying... you're misunderstanding the point.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
2. You're saying those said charcters can function better than 4, free moving, super fast, super long, and superstrong tentacles that *each* have their own A.I.
maybe they can, I mean spiderman's apparently supposed to be able to but not them?

anyways.. again, you're just misreading why I posted that in the first place.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
He has been shot is my point, but heroes dodge bullets all the damned time... but they get hit by fists, that's just what they do in comics. Even wheelchair Xavier has dodged a few, bullets are just the biggest jobbers in comics. There's a difference in Cap dodging a punch and the marksman missing.
EXACTLY... now you're helping my debate at this point..

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Spiderman lowers himself all the time, but he also said he was 40x faster than a man.
he may very well be that.. hell dd and captain might be too....

doesn't change

a) he only said that to impress his wife,

b, how would he know?

and c) he's never proven to be that much faster than peak humans.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He also said that Captain America punches with the power of an atom bomb. Lesson of day? Spider-man can't be trusted. 😉
😂

If you and I both run the 100 meter dash in 6 seconds and I tell people that I have super speed but you never say anything of the sort, does that mean that I'm faster then you because I have super speed but you don't? Because that is the situation that we are looking at here. Captain America, Daredevil and Wolverine all have speed feats equal to Spider-man so the question becomes what decides what a character's attributes are: on panel feats or a word?

One more and then I'm off to sleep.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He also said that Captain America punches with the power of an atom bomb. Lesson of day? Spider-man can't be trusted. 😉
Nor can any self claim... 😉

But your side uses them first and more often.

Originally posted by jinzin
once during the fight in the wherehouse and again at the end of the series before carnage got blasted to kingdom come.

Adn the many times he was hit, grabbed, and tossed away. But nevertheless even Carnage is much harder to dodge than guys like Cap. 😬

Originally posted by jinzin
it's inconsistant because I said something? 😕

anyways.. no that's not what I was saying... you're misunderstanding the point.

maybe they can, I mean spiderman's apparently supposed to be able to but not them?

anyways.. again, you're just misreading why I posted that in the first place.

It's inconsistent because you are using feats where slower characters who have had less experience around them have dodged them fine, but a faster character with precog can't, it doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by jinzin
EXACTLY... now you're helping my debate at this point..
No I'm not, because bullets are really big jobbers. There isn't any way around this. Because Spiderman would be one of the only street levelers able to dodge a bullet in the first place. The rest can't fully move out of the way between the latency time of a bullet firing and it pursuing its target. That's nonsense. They simply aren't fast enough even *if* they had the reflexes of Spiderman. But these same characters have a harder time up close than with bullets for no other reason for the fight to look more interesting. Especially ones like Spiderman. There's no real good reason why he should have more trouble dodging a fist than a bullet, we could make a discussion on it now and the favour would definitely be on the bullet, especially when it comes from an experienced marksman. They aren't going to have their characters shot up all day, but they know their characters can take some punches as well. Bullets are simply jobbers, there to make the other character look good. Oldest trick in the book.

Originally posted by jinzin
he may very well be that.. hell dd and captain might be too....

doesn't change

I don't see where running 60 mph (10 mph slower than he tosses his shield being bs anyways) and being "slightly above an Olympic athlete" is faster than 40x.

Originally posted by jinzin
a) he only said that to impress his wife,
1. How would you know?

2. Why would he lie to the person he tells all of his deepest darkest secrets. It's like he just said he could lift 100 tons for no reason. Peter isn't the type to boost his ego, he sells himself short.

Originally posted by jinzin
b, how would he know?
Richards did to a test on it.

Nevertheless it was to prove that claims are a poor argument.

Originally posted by jinzin
and c) he's never proven to be that much faster than peak humans.
Sure he has, and he is listed as such... Artists will simply use certain animations to make their character look faster. All depends on interpretation and evidence you wish to use.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
If you and I both run the 100 meter dash in 6 seconds and I tell people that I have super speed but you never say anything of the sort, does that mean that I'm faster then you because I have super speed but you don't? Because that is the situation that we are looking at here. Captain America, Daredevil and Wolverine all have speed feats equal to Spider-man so the question becomes what decides what a character's attributes are: on panel feats or a word?

They don't all have the same speed feats for one... secondly that is no different than the Nightwing example. He has the feats, but we all know that comics are chock full of inconsistencies no more than the stats, it's all of what you're looking for and balancing out. They have never been potrayed as equal speed to an all out Spiderman, I fully disagree.

That's no different than me using Spiderman lifting a sub, and putting him in class 70 because it's his highest lifting feat. What's all above and beyond the suspension of disbelief? I can negate all PIS and make Spiderman look waaay faster than Logan can't I?

I have posted pictures of wolverine winning against spiderman through the entire site, can someone put some of spiderman beating spiderman.

Originally posted by carver9
I have posted pictures of wolverine winning against spiderman through the entire site, can someone put some of spiderman beating spiderman.

This is a family site, we don't need pictures of Spider-man beating himself! 😠

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
This is a family site, we don't need pictures of Spider-man beating himself! 😠

😆

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
This is a family site, we don't need pictures of Spider-man beating himself! 😠
😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 💃

That was nasty but i really want to see a fight that spiderman have won again wolverine because i havent witnessed any. I know someone is going to use that picture where spiderman webb wolverine hands to his head and thats what Im waiting for because wolverine wasnt even fighting spiderman and spiderman was acting veeery scared of wolverine through that entire comic.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
Wait. Thanos had the infinity gauntlet and Wolverine poked him?

yup 🙁

The main thing i think people are forgetting is that Spider-man has actually been upgraded since their last fight, I mean come on, Spider-man and Wolverine's speed were in the same league in all the fights they have been in so far, but since then Spider-man has been upgraded we don't know to how much mind you but peter was in fact shocked at how much speed he had increased by so it must be by quite a bit. (Also don't say that he doesn't seem faster, because Spider-man has yet to really use any of his new powers so it seems like with all characters the writer's have forgotten about his power up)

There is another point to consider, you can pick almost every character with martial art training (no matter whether they are peak human or not) and they would probably have comparable speed feats to Spider-man, and there is a simple reason for that, skill is generally shown off with speed if someone pulls off a move very slowly people are gonna think "Man that guy sucks" so they make them seem very fast, and dodging bullets is a basic feat for all comic characters. Now this doesn't mean they are as fast as Spider-man this means they have to be shown doing something worthy of being classed as a "Super hero". Then again also look at it this way, Spider-man dodges a bullet, Wolverine dodges a bullet. what's the difference? Well Spider-man may have dodged alot faster than Wolverine. but because its on panel you can't really tell. Just because the characters have comparable feats doesn't mean they are in the same league. I'm sure Quicksilver has dodged a bullet, does that mean Spider-man and Wolverine are as fast as Quicksilver? No, it just means they have both done the same thing.

And finally even if Spider-man and Wolverine are in the same league in speed (and after Spidey's upgrades I no longer think they are, or at least stat wise anyway) Spider-man is more agile so he is naturally more equipped to dodge anyway, and his pre-cog gives the illusion he is much faster than he is because it helps him so much in dodging. And of course the fact that Spider-man is so much stronger he doesn't have to put so much effort into moving as Logan would or so you would think.

I'm not saying Wolverine can't hit Spider-man, but if Spidey is in perfect condition and is completely on the defensive then I honestly can't see Wolverine hitting Spidey when he has all these extra abilities which aid him in dodging.

Originally posted by jinzin
😬mr. X also handed taskmaster his ass, Mr. X is a telepath.. is spidey?

Mr X is a very underdeveloped telepath, shown when Logan compared him to the likes of Jean Grey. All he uses his telepathy for is pre-cog and spidey has been doing that for years a la Spider-sense.

Originally posted by jinzin
Mr. X had super speed... does spidey?

Technically...yes, Spidey is a superhuman who has superhuman strength, speed, agility, reflexes etc. That has always been established throughout Spidey's history. (And that's before we take into account any upgrades.)

And there are many instances to suggest Spidey has super speed. Just look through this link to prove spidey is faster than Logan........

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/377889-respek-spider-man

Mr X has super speed???? I don't have every appearance of Mr X but I have a couple and I never saw him use super speed, I thought he was considered fast due to his extremely limited telepathy/pre-cog.

Originally posted by jinzin
Mr. X had TONS of formal training... does spidey?

Well I doubt Spidey has nowhere near as much training as Mr X, but isn't that null and void if you can't hit your opponent? Mr X can predict next moves through pre-cog, Spidey can naturally avoid moves through pre-cog.

Originally posted by jinzin
the answer to all these questions is of course.. NO... so what does it matter that X beat wolverine?

Myself and the link provided, respectfully disagree ✅

Originally posted by willRules
Mr X is a very underdeveloped telepath, shown when Logan compared him to the likes of Jean Grey. All he uses his telepathy for is pre-cog and spidey has been doing that for years a la Spider-sense.

Technically...yes, Spidey is a superhuman who has superhuman strength, speed, agility, reflexes etc. That has always been established throughout Spidey's history. (And that's before we take into account any upgrades.)

And there are many instances to suggest Spidey has super speed. Just look through this link to prove spidey is faster than Logan........

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/377889-respek-spider-man

Mr X has super speed???? I don't have every appearance of Mr X but I have a couple and I never saw him use super speed, I thought he was considered fast due to his extremely limited telepathy/pre-cog.

Well I doubt Spidey has nowhere near as much training as Mr X, but isn't that null and void if you can't hit your opponent? Mr X can predict next moves through pre-cog, Spidey can naturally avoid moves through pre-cog.

Myself and the link provided, respectfully disagree ✅

I think mrx would destroy spiderman, spiderman might know that mrx is going to attack him but mrx knows which way spiderman is going to dodge, how hes going to dodge and when he's going to dodge and he'll hit spiderman every time. Now in regards of mrx fighting experience it was stated that mrx MASTERED every fighting style on the planet, armed and unarmed combat. He does have speed also, lets put it like this, hes faster than kraven and kraven tags spiderman all the time and he faster than hammer head and king pin.

Mrx wont even waste his time on spiderman, he goes after the best fighters on the planet and spiderman is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from being the best. Spiderman against mrx.

Mrx 10 out of 10.

Originally posted by carver9
I think mrx would destroy spiderman, spiderman might know that mrx is going to attack him but mrx knows which way spiderman is going to dodge, how hes going to dodge and when he's going to dodge and he'll hit spiderman every time. Now in regards of mrx fighting experience it was stated that mrx MASTERED every fighting style on the planet, armed and unarmed combat. He does have speed also, lets put it like this, hes faster than kraven and kraven tags spiderman all the time and he faster than hammer head and king pin.

Mrx wont even waste his time on spiderman, he goes after the best fighters on the planet and spiderman is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from being the best. Spiderman against mrx.

Mrx 10 out of 10.

why are we debating S V. Mr X? i think i missed something....

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Adn the many times he was hit, grabbed, and tossed away. But nevertheless even Carnage is much harder to dodge than guys like Cap. 😬
due to the fact that he doesn't trigger spidey's spider sense not neseccarily because he's faster which was the point.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
It's inconsistent because you are using feats where slower characters
see this right here is what we're talking about...

what makes these character's slower to a degree that there will be any descernable difference?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
It's who have had less experience around them have dodged them fine, but a faster character with precog can't, it doesn't make sense.
It only doesn't make sense if you negate the capabilities of these other characters, which is what you're side is doing.
and again, you missed the first point in that spidey dodging the tenticals isn't a good statute of comparison, spidey doesn't dodge them as a standard.. but if you want to make the argument that he can, then it so to shall be argued that these "slower" characters have delt with ock just fine.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
No I'm not, because bullets are really big jobbers. There isn't any way around this.
yes you are helping my argument you just don't see it yet.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Because Spiderman would be one of the only street levelers able to dodge a bullet in the first place. The rest can't fully move out of the way between the latency time of a bullet firing and it pursuing its target. That's nonsense. They simply aren't fast enough even *if* they had the reflexes of Spiderman. But these same characters have a harder time up close than with bullets for no other reason for the fight to look more interesting. Especially ones like Spiderman.

this only makes sense if you're willing to again ignore the capabilities of a peak human.. but I think we're close to a major breakthrough here...

so far it seems that you dictate that we can't use random feats due to jobbing, we can't use direct comparison's due to lowering of standards and such... so what then are you using to determine these finalities C?
If it's "logic", I must again defer to the position that logic's only as acceptable as it's source.. in the marvel 616 universe, the source says it's perfectly acceptable for these peak humans to do these things on the daily... If we're going to apply real world logic... we can't do it subjectively but we' ve already been down this road.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
There's no real good reason why he should have more trouble dodging a fist than a bullet, we could make a discussion on it now and the favour would definitely be on the bullet, especially when it comes from an experienced marksman. They aren't going to have their characters shot up all day, but they know their characters can take some punches as well. Bullets are simply jobbers, there to make the other character look good. Oldest trick in the book.
so we ignore feats?

see I don't follow that "logic" a character is defined by what they do, you can't simply ignore what you don't like in a fictionalized media....
however in concerning bullets.. bullet have a defnite linear path, arms and legs do not, bullets also don't have fighting ability, and the ability to strategize, fighters do.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I don't see where running 60 mph (10 mph slower than he tosses his shield being bs anyways) and being "slightly above an Olympic athlete" is faster than 40x.
how about moving so fast it looked like he evaporated?

and again with this olympic nonsense... daredevil breaks olympic records doing his half assed building hopping routine on a nightly basis after 2+ hours of doing it, none of these guys are NEAR olympic level and you should know that by now, that handbook crap is almost never accurate so there's no need to reguritate it here.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
1. How would you know?
cause he's never landed 40 blows on a human before they could throw one.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
2. Why would he lie to the person he tells all of his deepest darkest secrets. It's like he just said he could lift 100 tons for no reason. Peter isn't the type to boost his ego, he sells himself short.
did you see what she was wearing? he wasn't using his right mind! 😛

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Richards did to a test on it..

Issue number?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Sure he has, and he is listed as such... Artists will simply use certain animations to make their character look faster. All depends on interpretation and evidence you wish to use.

other than saying so, no he hasn't... he isn't listed as such either.. he's one tier above peak humans in terms of speed... and I highly call into question whether that's foot speed or fighting speed.

]

Originally posted by Sparkz
The main thing i think people are forgetting is that Spider-man has actually been upgraded since their last fight, I mean come on, Spider-man and Wolverine's speed were in the same league in all the fights they have been in so far, but since then Spider-man has been upgraded we don't know to how much mind you but peter was in fact shocked at how much speed he had increased by so it must be by quite a bit. (Also don't say that he doesn't seem faster, because Spider-man has yet to really use any of his new powers so it seems like with all characters the writer's have forgotten about his power up)

There is another point to consider, you can pick almost every character with martial art training (no matter whether they are peak human or not) and they would probably have comparable speed feats to Spider-man, and there is a simple reason for that, skill is generally shown off with speed if someone pulls off a move very slowly people are gonna think "Man that guy sucks" so they make them seem very fast, and dodging bullets is a basic feat for all comic characters. Now this doesn't mean they are as fast as Spider-man this means they have to be shown doing something worthy of being classed as a "Super hero". Then again also look at it this way, Spider-man dodges a bullet, Wolverine dodges a bullet. what's the difference? Well Spider-man may have dodged alot faster than Wolverine. but because its on panel you can't really tell. Just because the characters have comparable feats doesn't mean they are in the same league. I'm sure Quicksilver has dodged a bullet, does that mean Spider-man and Wolverine are as fast as Quicksilver? No, it just means they have both done the same thing.

And finally even if Spider-man and Wolverine are in the same league in speed (and after Spidey's upgrades I no longer think they are, or at least stat wise anyway) Spider-man is more agile so he is naturally more equipped to dodge anyway, and his pre-cog gives the illusion he is much faster than he is because it helps him so much in dodging. And of course the fact that Spider-man is so much stronger he doesn't have to put so much effort into moving as Logan would or so you would think.

I'm not saying Wolverine can't hit Spider-man, but if Spidey is in perfect condition and is completely on the defensive then I honestly can't see Wolverine hitting Spidey when he has all these extra abilities which aid him in dodging.

upgraded spiderman's best speed feat was surprising a non suspecting tony stark... stark isn't CLOSE to a peak human like cap, or even dd for that matter, much less wolverine...
spiderman said he felt like weights were taken off of him sure... but hell he just recovered from some serious sh**,
aside from that, cap proved that his speed increase means beans... TWICE.

Originally posted by NiñoAraña
why are we debating S V. Mr X? i think i missed something....

It was a guy that was comparing spiderman against mr.x and I just wanted to let him know the difference, he was making it seem like spiderman would destroy mrx, I might misunderstood him but thats the way that i was reading it.

Originally posted by willRules
Mr X is a very underdeveloped telepath, shown when Logan compared him to the likes of Jean Grey. All he uses his telepathy for is pre-cog and spidey has been doing that for years a la Spider-sense.

spidey gets a generalized perception of danger...
the difference from mr.x is that x can tell exactly what you're planning so there's no faking him out...

dd faked out the ss to ko spidey
cap faked out the ss to get his advantage etc etc...

you can't fake out x, you have to stop thinking to get that kind of edge.

Originally posted by willRules
Technically...yes, Spidey is a superhuman who has superhuman strength, speed, agility, reflexes etc. That has always been established throughout Spidey's history. (And that's before we take into account any upgrades.)

And there are many instances to suggest Spidey has super speed. Just look through this link to prove spidey is faster than Logan........

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/377889-respek-spider-man

Mr X has super speed???? I don't have every appearance of Mr X but I have a couple and I never saw him use super speed, I thought he was considered fast due to his extremely limited telepathy/pre-cog.

taskmaster tried to escape mr. x in a cage fight... taskmaster was already half way up the cage.. mr x was 20 feet away and on the other side of the ring.. by the time taskmaster TURNED AROUND, X had already beat him to the cage exit.... if he can do that to a guy like taskmaster I mean c'mon!
none of those links show spiderman doing anything like that against people of TM's calibur.

Originally posted by willRules
Well I doubt Spidey has nowhere near as much training as Mr X, but isn't that null and void if you can't hit your opponent? Mr X can predict next moves through pre-cog, Spidey can naturally avoid moves through pre-cog.
his spider sense acts as an equalizer and he's admitted it a few times... but pre-cog doesn't make up for extreme amounts of martial training, hell that was hinted at by spiderman himself in fights with iron fist, cap, and steel dragon.

Originally posted by willRules
Myself and the link provided, respectfully disagree ✅
then you would be wrong.

Originally posted by NiñoAraña
why are we debating S V. Mr X? i think i missed something....
because some half wit brought mr. x up as evidence that spiderman can beat wolverine when those two aren't even close in comparison.

Originally posted by jinzin
taskmaster tried to escape mr. x in a cage fight... taskmaster was already half way up the cage.. mr x was 20 feet away and on the other side of the ring.. by the time taskmaster TURNED AROUND, X had already beat him to the cage exit.... if he can do that to a guy like taskmaster I mean c'mon!
none of those links show spiderman doing anything like that against people of TM's calibur.

TM can "mimic" spiderman's speed and it greatly improves him yet he has even said he cannot maintain that it drains him so there must be something about Spiderman's speed.

If X did that to TM it doesn't matter nor does it specifically show him "faster" then Spiderman especially in a very limited showing when Spiderman has TONS of showings to illustrate his greatly enhanced speed.

Next..............

Originally posted by Soleran
TM can "mimic" spiderman's speed and it greatly improves him yet he has even said he cannot maintain that it drains him so there must be something about Spiderman's speed.
I've never seen TM say that about spiderman's speed, in their first fight TM duplicated spiderman's speed seamingly fine.

I've seen TM say that when he was talking about X2 speed, but not about spiderman...

scans? issue?

Originally posted by Soleran
If X did that to TM it doesn't matter nor does it specifically show him "faster" then Spiderman especially in a very limited showing when Spiderman has TONS of showings to illustrate his greatly enhanced speed.

Next..............

not next, you need to clarify why x's feats don't count cause "he had limited showings" just doesn't cut it I'm afraid.