The PT Jedi order vs. The New Jedi Order

"Take your Jedi weapon and strike me down. I am unarmed/I am defenseless". Ring a bell?

He didn't have a lightsaber in his hand, ready to defend himself...
Seriously, this response couldn't have been more idiotic.

Considering that he was TOYING with Luke and had NO intention to kill him, YES!

Why not just toy with him with the force? Why use a weapon that he's out of practise with? It was pretty clear that Luke was exceptional by this point, why take any chances?

Sidious spent his time studying holocrons/the dark side on Korriban and other planets. Vader did the killing. Obviously you missed the concept of the entire Star Wars Saga.

I heard from Lightsnake that he claims to have killed jedi, and kept their lightsabers as trophies. Either way, no biggy.

I'll argue the other two points when I have some time.

Originally posted by Mic Assassin
[B]He didn't have a lightsaber in his hand, ready to defend himself...
Seriously, this response couldn't have been more idiotic.

Why not just toy with him with the force? Why use a weapon that he's out of practise with? It was pretty clear that Luke was exceptional by this point, why take any chances?

Glentract, where the hell was is stated jacen kept up with luke so called 20 sabers? The unfying force only said he might as well hold 20 sabers(luke) thats right i read the book.

And TPM sidious is the peak of his saberskills, jacen is going to get smacked both in the force and saber

By the way mic assassin.. you better not be nebaris

I wouldn't be surprised.

That's not ROTS Sidious. You saying that ROTS Sidious can do something because DE Sidious could do it is the same as me saying ROTJ Luke can do something because NJO Luke could do it.

It doesn't matter, unless you're gonna ATTEMPT to prove that Sidious spent his time improving his pain thresh hold throughout the OT and DE. ESPECIALLY when it appears he didn't train his body whatsoever.

AGAIN, this is not ROTS Sidious killing anyone with his lightning, much less a Force user that is almost as strong as Luke.

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=176&page=051
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=176&page=052
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=176&page=053
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=176&page=054
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=176&page=055
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=176&page=056
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=176&page=057
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=176&page=058
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=176&page=059

Yep this wouldn't kill anybody 🙄 Again unless you can prove that his lightning improved from ROTS to the OT you have no point. Now DE from ROTS yes. The ONLY time we see Sidious unleash this lightning is against uber force users Mace Windu and Yoda. You have no point (as usual)

I was referring to Luke and Jacen fighting. Anyway, So what if Raynar being unable to cotrol Jacen happened before Luke took Raynar out?

Your missing the point, It was too DS's question whether the events happened before DN.

By this logic since NJO Luke can control a black hole ROTJ Luke must be able to also. Retarded.

The only thing retarded is you, ONCE AGAIN your using illogical comparisons (Telekinesis to Pain thresholds) and (Jedi Master Luke who can channel the entire Lightside of the force to half trained ROTJ Luke) Now, Sidious is a different case: He apparently does NO training of the body at all, and only focuses on the force. So its FAR from "retarded" to assume his pain threshold remains the same (and since you or anyone else can't produce ANY evidence otherwise its fact)

I NEVER said that he doesn't have Force Speed. I said he doesn't have UBER speed, meaning that he can't move faster than the eye can see in ROTS. Take you own advice and check out H.O.P.

LOL! Damage control anyone? Uber speed is not force speed? Whats the damn difference? Bane does "force speed" in PoD and moves faster then the eye can see, Augmenting your speed by use of the force IS FORCE SPEED, idiot.

How come we can see him move very easily in both of his fights in ROTS? The movie overrides the Journal of Darth Maul and any other source that you have. Evidence that he has improved in saber skills? For one he has a body that's in real good condition compared to before. Also, he moved WAY faster in DE then he ever did before.

God your retarded, rhetorical question. The movie overrides the databank? Even when it doesn't contradict? Evenw hen its elaborating on the movie?

"It granted him inhuman dexterity and speed, agility enough to quickly kill three Jedi Masters and force the mighty Mace Windu back." - The Databank Palpatine

We know he was moving with extreme speed, other sources say there were blurs, then we have the fact that the movie doesn't show the WHOLE DUEL, where as the book does, and as LeeLand Chee says if those things in the novel don't contradict the movie, and are in the place of a cutaway during the movie(or a characters thoughts) they are canon, there are TWO major cutaways in both of his duels, in the Mace one they end up in different places and in different positions. In the Yoda duel we see Sidious and Yoda FAR away from each other and Sidious disarmed. so we can conclude that in those cut aways Sidious uses his leet speed described in the novel, and in Darth Mauls journal. Your Wrong.

Guess what, I can prove the energy required to move a black hole in relation to a planet. Shouldn't have challenged me here, math is my speciality.

The mass of the Earth is 59,742,000,000kg. Assuming Dxun has the same mass, which is likely due to gravity there being consistent with that of the Earth, to move it 3,000km we put 1g of centrifical force pushing outwards would require something like 1,756,414,800,000,000,000 newtons. Sounds like a lot, doesn't it? Well compare it to what it would take to move a black hole the measily distance required to suck the ship up.

Mass of black hole with a Schwarzschild radius that is 3 km equals 1/3 the mass of the Sun.
The mass of the sun is 332,946 times that of the Earth.

Now, a black hole used to protect something 1 km long would need a Schwarzschild radius of 1 km. Also, it would be positioned at least 1 km from the ship to keep it from sucking the craft it. Because of how fast the ships move to keep it a safe distance away for normal manuvering would be at least 10km. This would mean that Kyp moved the black hole AT LEAST 10km to suck the ship in.

Mass of a 1km black hole equals 110,982 times that of the Earth or 6,630,286,640,000,000kg.

To move such a massive object 10km is phenominal. It would require 6,630,286,640,000,000,000.

6,630,286,640,000,000,000 / 1,756,414,800,000,000,000 = 3.77

What Kyp did required more than 3 times the strength than what Bane did. I'd say Kyp's a lot more impressive than Bane.

Oh, and no, Kyp controlling the black hole more easily than Luke doesn't make him all around better than Luke.

Well other then the fact that your using a mathematical theory, do I give a shit?(NO) To end your theory all I would have to say is "Prove how big the star that created the Black Hole" in the Star Wars universe some Black Holes were created at the formation of the universe "Prove it wasn't one of those that could be very small" The question about Bane was hypothetical. And the point was about Sidious. Now, you'd need to substantiate HOW much force energy it takes to move a Black Hole, Could Sidious mimic it? Well considering he can create force storms all over Coruscant, use the force to simultaneously reach all over the entire galaxy and affect Jedi (even force pushing Yoda) I'd say he could.

However, my point remains. Sidious was screaming under the pain of lightning.

What are you talking about? Lucas said HE WAS ACTING. He smiles literally TWO seconds later. Hell he doesn't scream ONE time.
"He's a TRAITOR!"
"I have the power to save the one you love!"
"You must choose!"
"I can't hold it any longer... I...I...I..I...can't hold it..."

He NEVER goes "AHHHH HELPS! NEVER. Your lying.

1. I don't need to know the exact physics to know that once a current is cut off the pain goes away.

HIS F*CKING FACE WAS MELTING. That goes away with the current huh?

2. I thought you had said that it was a mask, not his face. Incinsistencies, much?

I NEVER said that you dumbass, it was Darth Sexy, I go with the canon of Lucas's word that says it melted. Hooked on Phonics, much?

Uber speed =/= Force Speed

Yes it does you retard. I didn't know we had separate categories for force speed.

Here is the new category for speed according to whatever your name is:

Uber Speed

Leet Speed

Supersonic Speed

Sonic Speed

DBZ Speed

OMFGROTFLLMAO Speed

Force Speed

Normal Speed.

Don't forget that Luke was ALSO to powerful for anyone to control.

Apparently not since it took, Mara, Liea and Luke to stop it.

And this says overall power where?

Raynar directly stated that this was because Jacen was to powerful for anyone to control.

Having skill in a particular area, in this case over mental control, does not mean that anyone is saying that Jacen is more powerful than Luke.

You didn't say that,that is the point you didn't go "In regards to mental ability" admit your mistake and move on. Jesus.

You remember incorrectly it. What Jacen thought was a Dark Side vison of Luke was actually being controlled by the real Luke and what Luke thought was a Darkside vision was actually being controlled directly by Jacen.

Whatever. Tell me what page this is on.

It wasn't ownage

Yeah it was.

No, that would be DE Sidious, not TPM Sidious. And Jacen moves fast enough to compete with Luke's 20 sabers, which is much faster than TPM or ROTS Sidious.

According to whom? Sidious moves faster then Darth Maul can blink. Mace Windu is also described as moving as if he's wielding twenty this image proves it:
.[
Then we have the fact that in Shatterpoint he was called literally invisible and yet Sidious went toe to toe and competed with that. THEN we have the fact that Yoda > Mace. And Sidious went toe to toe and WON with that. ROTS Sidious would lob Jacens head off

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Says the one who can't prove that Sidious had, used, or even had a reason to use a lightsaber in the 20 years of the Empire.

If Sidious didn't use a lightsaber how did he train his legion of Dark Acolytes? There are quite a few of them, btw.

Gwellib Ap-Llewff, Dark Side Adept of the Imperial Citadel
Argor, Lesser Prophet of the Dark Side
Boc Aseca, Dark Jedi
Picaroon C. Boodle, Dark Jedi
Brakiss, Apprentice Inquisitor
Adalric Cessius Brandl, High Inquisitor
Jaalib Brandl, Apprentice Inquisitor
Shira Ellan Colla Brie, Emperor's Hand
Joruus C'baoth, Guardian of Wayland
The Cloaked Figure, Lesser Prophet of the Dark Side
The Constable of Homunculi, Clone Keeper
Cronal, Lesser Prophet of the Dark Side/Emperor's Hand
Sa Cuis, Emperor's Hand
Ameesa Darys, Inquisitor
Nial Declann, Grand Admiral
Drayneen, Inquisitor
Jeng Droga, Emperor's Hand
Durrei, Dark Jedi
Baddon Fass, Dark Side Elite
Flint, Stormtrooper
Vill Goir, Dark Side Elite
Gorc, Dark Jedi
Gornash, Lesser Prophet of the Dark Side
Kvag Gthull, Dark Side Elite
Halmere, High Inquisitor
Hethrir, Imperial Procurator of Justice
Roganda Ismaren, Emperor's Hand
Mara Jade, Emperor's Hand
Shela Jalahafi, Dark Side Adept
Teles Jalahafi, Dark Side Adept
Carnor Jax, Imperial Sovereign Protector
Jedgar, High Prophet of the Dark Side
Jerec, Inquisitor/Emperor's Hand
Kadann, Supreme Prophet of the Dark Side
Zasm Katth, Dark Side Elite
Danaan Kerr, Dark Jedi
Vess Kogo, Emperor's Hand
Arden Lyn, Emperor's Hand
Malorum, Inquisitor
Maw, Dark Jedi
Merilli, Lesser Prophetess of the Dark Side
Krdys Mordi, Dark Side Elite
Morthul, Dark Jedi
Nefta, Dark Side Adept of the Byss Clone Vats
Xecr Nist, Dark Side Elite
Sarcev Quest, Emperor's Hand
Loam Redge, Inquisitor
Rillao, Dark Jedi
Sa-Di, Dark Side Adept of the Byss Clone Vats
Sancor, Inquisitor
Sariss, Lesser Prophetess of the Dark Side
Sedriss, Dark Side Elite
Shynne, Inquisitor
Mox Slosin, High Inquisitor
Kam Solusar, Dark Side Elite
Maarek Stele, Emperor's Reach/Emperor's Hand
Tedryn-Sha, Dark Side Elite
Savuud Thimram, Dark Side Adept of the Imperial Citadel
T'iaz, Dark Jedi
Laddinare Torbin, Grand Inquisitor
Tremayne, High Inquisitor
Vost Tyne, Admiral
Volytar, Inquisitor
Vialco, Apprentice Inquisitor
Yun, Dark Jedi

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Luke was not exceptional by DE and Sidious knew he was still better. Why toy with him in the force when you can make him think he has a chance with a saber, then beat him.

Luke was not exceptional by DE? "Luke was able to knock down AT-ATs easily by tampering with them through the Force, as well as absorbing the initial cannon blasts from the AT-AT, before deflecting the rest with his lightsaber.
Luke also destroyed an army of advanced battle droids just by waving his hand, thereby destroying the internal components of the whole army of droids. This Force power was first manifested by Jedi Master Arca Jeth during the Great Droid Revolution. Even then, with proper instruction, it was a difficult power to master. However, this power apparently came naturally to Luke.
Luke managed to defeat the reborn Emperor Palpatine in a lightsaber duel, slicing off his hand with cho mai. It should be noted that Palpatine was perhaps one of the best swordsmen in lightsaber history, and even Yoda, Luke's own master, was unable to defeat him. Leia, who was watching the fight, could hardly see the movements of Luke and the Emperor, but she sensed waves of power generating from them—dark from the Emperor, and light from Luke." Wookiepedia. Luke's freaking good.

Wow you can copy and paste wookiepedia *claps* now prove he trained any of them in lightsaber combat, why would he when he had you VADER for that, when ever we see him with the DJ's he's NEVER giving them Lightsbaer instruction, hell the most I can remember him teaching them was a few bits about the Dark Side, he was training himself he wouldn't waste time with those losers

And as for Luke you and Wookie fail to note Liea was using BM on Luke during the battle. He was STILL nothing to the emperor who hadn't touched a saber in 20 years.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
It doesn't matter, unless you're gonna ATTEMPT to prove that Sidious spent his time improving his pain thresh hold throughout the OT and DE. ESPECIALLY when it appears he didn't train his body whatsoever.

Nope. Not my job. If you want to claim that ROTS Sidious has ANY ability to the same level as DE Sidious YOU have to prove it.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=176&page=051
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=176&page=052
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=176&page=053
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=176&page=054
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=176&page=055
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=176&page=056
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=176&page=057
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=176&page=058
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=176&page=059

Yep this wouldn't kill anybody 🙄 Again unless you can prove that his lightning improved from ROTS to the OT you have no point. Now DE from ROTS yes. The ONLY time we see Sidious unleash this lightning is against uber force users Mace Windu and Yoda. You have no point (as usual)

It's not my job to prove that it improved. The burden is on you to prove that ROTS Sidious' is as strong as the OT Sidious' if that is what you want to claim.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Your missing the point, It was too DS's question whether the events happened before DN.

Well I don't know what the heck DS was getting at. Do you?

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
The only thing retarded is you, ONCE AGAIN your using illogical comparisons (Telekinesis to Pain thresholds) and (Jedi Master Luke who can channel the entire Lightside of the force to half trained ROTJ Luke) Now, Sidious is a different case: He apparently does NO training of the body at all, and only focuses on the force. So its FAR from "retarded" to assume his pain threshold remains the same (and since you or anyone else can't produce ANY evidence otherwise its fact)

No, because Jedi and Sith use the Force to sustain themselves. DE Sidious is magnitudes stronger in the Force, which increased his pain threshold. Again, IF YOU WANT TO CLAIM THAT ROTS HAS EQUAL PAIN TOLERANCE TO DE SIDIOUS YOU MUST PROVE IT! YOU HAVE NOT!

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
LOL! Damage control anyone? Uber speed is not force speed? Whats the damn difference? Bane does "force speed" in PoD and moves faster then the eye can see, Augmenting your speed by use of the force IS FORCE SPEED, idiot.

You had better lay off the insults, buddy. They're getting rather annoying.

I'm not saying that using the Force to enhance ones speed isn't Force Speed. What I said is that ROTS Sidious' Force Speed is no where near as uber as DE Sidious'. You misunderstood that. Your fault, not mine.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
God your retarded, rhetorical question. The movie overrides the databank? Even when it doesn't contradict? Evenw hen its elaborating on the movie?

"It granted him inhuman dexterity and speed, agility enough to quickly kill three Jedi Masters and force the mighty Mace Windu back." - The Databank Palpatine

We don't see it, so it didn't happen. Doesn't matter what the databank says.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
We know he was moving with extreme speed, other sources say there were blurs, then we have the fact that the movie doesn't show the WHOLE DUEL, where as the book does, and as LeeLand Chee says if those things in the novel don't contradict the movie, and are in the place of a cutaway during the movie(or a characters thoughts) they are canon, there are TWO major cutaways in both of his duels, in the Mace one they end up in different places and in different positions. In the Yoda duel we see Sidious and Yoda FAR away from each other and Sidious disarmed. so we can conclude that in those cut aways Sidious uses his leet speed described in the novel, and in Darth Mauls journal. Your Wrong.

False conclusion. You can't assume that because there are some brief moments of the fight that were not seen the things you hope happened, happened in them.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Well other then the fact that your using a mathematical theory, do I give a shit?(NO) To end your theory all I would have to say is "Prove big the star that created the Black Hole" in the Star Wars universe some Black Holes were created at the formation of the universe "Prove it wasn't one of those that could be very small" The question about Bane was hypothetical. And the point was about Sidious. Now, you'd need to substantiate HOW much force energy it takes to move a Black Hole, Could Sidious mimic it? Well considering he can create force storms all over Coruscant, use the force to simultaneously reach all over the entire galaxy and affect Jedi (even force pushing Yoda) I'd say he could.

DE Sidious could perhaps. ROTS Sidious doesn't stand a chance of moving a black hole, nor does Bane. You want to prove me wrong prove my math wrong.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
What are you talking about? Lucas said HE WAS ACTING. He smiles literally TWO seconds later. Hell he doesn't scream ONE time.
"He's a TRAITOR!"
"I have the power to save the one you love!"
"You must choose!"
"I can't hold it any longer... I...I...I..I...can't hold it..."

He NEVER goes "AHHHH HELPS! NEVER. Your lying.

I'm not lying. Sidious was paralyzed by pain.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
HIS F*CKING FACE WAS MELTING. That goes away with the current huh?

His mask melted, not his face.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
I NEVER said that you dumbass, it was Darth Sexy, I go with the canon of Lucas's word that says it melted. Hooked on Phonics, much?

When exactly did Lucas say that?

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Yes it does you retard. I didn't know we had separate categories for force speed.

Here is the new category for speed according to what your name is:

Uber Speed

Leet Speed

Supersonic Speed

Sonic Speed

DBZ Speed

OMFGROTFLLMAO Speed

Force Speed

Normal Speed.

Good job. How long did it take you to come up with those? Again, I'm not saying that using the Force to enhance ones speed isn't Force Speed. What I said is that ROTS Sidious' Force Speed is no where near as uber as DE Sidious'. You misunderstood that. Your fault, not mine.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Apparently not since it took, Mara, Liea and Luke to stop it.

They aided, but Luke could easily have done it on his own. Unless you want to claim that Raynar is stronger than Luke, that is.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Raynar directly stated that this was because Jacen was to [B]powerful for anyone to control.

You didn't say that,that is the point you didn't go "In regards to mental ability" admit your mistake and move on. Jesus. [/B]

Too powerful in that area, perhaps, but not overall, unless YOU want to be the one claiming that Jacen is more powerful than Luke.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Whatever. Tell me what page this is on.

I don't remember. Go look it up. Somewhere between 350 and 375 if I remember correctly.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Yeah it was.

No, I'm afraid it was not.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
According to whom? Sidious moves faster then Darth Maul can blink. Mace Windu is also described as moving as if he's wielding twenty this image proves it:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image😖wirling_VZZZ.jpg
Then we have the fact that in Shatterpoint he was called literally invisible and yet Sidious went toe to toe and competed with that. THEN we have the fact that Yoda > Mace. And Sidious went toe to toe and WON with that. ROTS Sidious would lob Jacens head off.

Overrided by the movie. Any quotes regarding speed that put it above what was seen in the movie are not canon, as ROTS Sidious is the subject in question.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Wow you can copy and paste wookiepedia *claps* now prove he trained any of them in lightsaber combat, why would he when he had you VADER for that, when ever we see him with the DJ's he's NEVER giving them Lightsbaer instruction, hell the most I can remember him teaching them was a few bits about the Dark Side, he was training himself he wouldn't waste time with those losers

And as for Luke you and Wookie fail to note Liea was using BM on Luke during the battle. He was STILL nothing to the emperor who hadn't touched a saber in 20 years.

Luke DEFEATED the Emperor. And unless you can prove Vader taught them Sidious is the logical choice.

Nope. Not my job. If you want to claim that ROTS Sidious has ANY ability to the same level as DE Sidious YOU have to prove it.

I just did. His body didn't improve.

It's not my job to prove that it improved. The burden is on you to prove that ROTS Sidious' is as strong as the OT Sidious' if that is what you want to claim.

I just did. See the pictures.

Well I don't know what the heck DS was getting at. Do you?

Nope.

No, because Jedi and Sith use the Force to sustain themselves. DE Sidious is magnitudes stronger in the Force, which increased his pain threshold. Again, IF YOU WANT TO CLAIM THAT ROTS HAS EQUAL PAIN TOLERANCE TO DE SIDIOUS YOU MUST PROVE IT! YOU HAVE NOT!

Whoa, whoa your making the assertion that the more powerful you are in the force the less pain you feel correct? In that case Vader who is 80% of Sidious should have felt no pain from Lukes glancing blow, Anakin on Mustafar should have been able to walk on one hand up the slope while on fire and smile. Some people have higher pain thresholds, Sidious was one of them, Dooku had both his hands cut off an all he had was a "eep" look on his face, he didn't cry out in pain.

Sidious himself doesn't get stronger, (You can't increase potential, only Kyle Katarn can do that) He gained techniques, that were more powerful then anything he knew of before hence the "force storm" Sidious could already use the force in such extreme ways being so powerful he caused a power outage on Coruscant, Could simultaneously use the force to affect all the Jedi around the galaxy. He was so damn powerful his very presence was unbalancing the force.

You had better lay off the insults, buddy. They're getting rather annoying.

I'm only speaking the truth.

I'm not saying that using the Force to enhance ones speed isn't Force Speed. What I said is that ROTS Sidious' Force Speed is no where near as uber as DE Sidious'. You misunderstood that. Your fault, not mine.

Yes it is its described as THE SAME THING. BOTH are called blurs, Both move faster then beings can blink, Both have THE SAME speed. What don't you get about this? Its truly not that hard to understand.

False conclusion. You can't assume that because there are some brief moments of the fight that were not seen the things you hope happened, happened in them.

I'm not assuming genius, I'm using points in the NOVEL where it says Sidious was using his godly speed to supplement the cutaways. Its perfectly logical. What your saying is not.

DE Sidious could perhaps. ROTS Sidious doesn't stand a chance of moving a black hole, nor does Bane. You want to prove me wrong prove my math wrong.

I'm not gonna waste my time, since you can't prove how big the Black Hole was, How it was formed. And how much energy it takes to move one. You have no point.

I'm not lying. Sidious was paralyzed by pain.

LOL! Proof? He's PARALYZED now? I thought he was screaming in pain. So PARALYZED he could KEEP shooting his lightining and smile, move around and get up two seconds latter. Your a liar.

His mask melted, not his face.

Lucas says it was his face.

When exactly did Lucas say that?

ROTS Commentary Advent and others have posted it dozens of times.

They aided, but Luke could easily have done it on his own. Unless you want to claim that Raynar is stronger than Luke, that is.

No. I'm only going by what wookie says since I'm very hesitant to take your word for ANYTHING considering you lie to help your point (Luke being force pushed)

Too powerful in that area, perhaps, but not overall, unless YOU want to be the one claiming that Jacen is more powerful than Luke.

Don't try to turn this around you said it not me

I don't remember. Go look it up. Somewhere between 350 and 375 if I remember correctly.

I don't have to book with me. Hence why I wasted my time asking you

No, I'm afraid it was not.

Ya buddy it was and its continuing.

Overrided by the movie. Any quotes regarding speed that put it above what was seen in the movie are not canon, as ROTS Sidious is the subject in question.

Already proved wrong. See above.

Luke DEFEATED the Emperor.

And unless you can prove Vader taught them Sidious is the logical choice.

Considering Vader teaches the majority of them Lumiya, the Inquisitors. I'd say he does. The burden of proof is on YOU to prove that they were taught Lightsaber arts by Sidious.

good lord.

Manipulating a black hole, big deal, just an act of telekenesis to a much higher degree, of course mastery is needed to do so.

And what on earth does it mean if you manipulate a black hole? Its like saying zomg i shot a monkey and tore his genitals of, does it mean i can do the same to a gorilla? Course not, id get torn to pieces

Originally posted by Kadesh
Its like saying zomg i shot a monkey and tore his genitals of, does it mean i can do the same to a gorilla? Course not, id get torn to pieces

Lol.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Whoa, whoa your making the assertion that the more powerful you are in the force the less pain you feel correct? In that case Vader who is 80% of Sidious should have felt no pain from Lukes glancing blow, Anakin on Mustafar should have been able to walk on one hand up the slope while on fire and smile. Some people have higher pain thresholds, Sidious was one of them, Dooku had both his hands cut off an all he had was a "eep" look on his face, he didn't cry out in pain.

Quite the fan of the strawman, huh? Now Glentract wasn't saying that pain threshold is directly proportional to force strength, just that an increase in force strength grants one with greater pain threshold, which is completely true. That's not to say that Vader's pain threshold should be exactly 80% of Sidious' etc..., like you seem to think that Glentract was implying.

Sidious himself doesn't get stronger, (You can't increase potential, only Kyle Katarn can do that)

Actually, DE Sidious frequently drained energy from Byss, increasing his power levels (connection: current level and potential). And Sidious wouldn't have needed to increase his potential to become stronger anyway, that's a ridiculous comment, unless you want to argue that he'd reached his full potential already by RotS?

He gained techniques, that were more powerful then anything he knew of before hence the "force storm" Sidious could already use the force in such extreme ways being so powerful he caused a power outage on Coruscant, Could simultaneously use the force to affect all the Jedi around the galaxy. He was so damn powerful his very presence was unbalancing the force.

This is comparable to the stuff DE Sidious pulls off, how? And again, going by the highest form of canon, RotS Sidious has been proven to have highly inferior strength in comparison to his uber DE incarnation.

I'm not assuming genius, I'm using points in the NOVEL where it says Sidious was using his godly speed to supplement the cutaways. Its perfectly logical. What your saying is not.

So let me get this straight; he starts off pretty average (in terms of speed, and by average, I'm speaking in comparison to the uber descriptions of his DE incarnation), and then just mystically grows super fast in the part of the movie that we conveniently never get to see, and then resumes with his average speed? LMFAO!! 😆

Seriously, that's bullshit, and one of the most ridiculous points I've seen my whole time here.

I'm not gonna waste my time, since you can't prove how big the Black Hole was, How it was formed. And how much energy it takes to move one. You have no point.

Actually, from what I can see, he's pretty much already done that. It's your fault that the science and maths completely flew over your head.

Don't try to turn this around you said it not me

I actually just read thought these points, and you were the one at fault. You don't seem to get how the term "power" can sometimes just be used to talk in respect to one particular aspect of power (in this case, most likely willpower), and not just overall power.

Considering Vader teaches the majority of them Lumiya, the Inquisitors. I'd say he does. The burden of proof is on YOU to prove that they were taught Lightsaber arts by Sidious.

Who taught Vader Makashi, and the other forms that he originally didn't know? That's right, Darth SMAN. ✅

Now seriously, Glentract's been destroying you, having Kadesh and Darth Sexy cheer for you like b1tches doesn't change that.

Quite the fan of the strawman, huh? Now Glentract wasn't saying that pain threshold is directly proportional to force strength, just that an increase in force strength grants one with greater pain threshold, which is completely true. That's not to say that Vader's pain threshold should be exactly 80% of Sidious' etc..., like you seem to think that Glentract was implying.

Nebaris...Nebaris...please prove that "an increase in force strength grants one with greater pain threshold" please with novel, sourcebook, movies quotes. I see dooku get BOTH his hands chopped off, and he only has a "Well would you look at that" expression on his face. He didn't scream, cry or yell out in extreme agony as Gletrant(whatever his name is) seems to imply what will happen to everyone but Jacen. With that said Sidious was already leagues above Dooku at that time, Dooku himself was shitting his pants at the thought of fighting Sidious. So Sidious had he had his hand chopped off would likely look at it and move on.

Actually, DE Sidious frequently drained energy from Byss, increasing his power levels (connection: current level and potential). And Sidious wouldn't have needed to increase his potential to become stronger anyway, that's a ridiculous comment, unless you want to argue that he'd reached his full potential already by RotS?

Well he had 60+ years by ROTS to master the Dark Side, he displays feats on the level of his DE self ie: Moving faster then the eye can see the eye of Darth Maul at that. By TMP was already called the strongest Sith ever, because of his expansive dark side power and knowledge. That and being called already at the time the most powerful practitioner of of the Dark Side, he literally was the dark side. So yeah by ROTS (or shortly after) I'd say he peaked, the extra Sith knowledge allowed him to apply his extreme power in other ways not known to him previously (The Force Storm) And since you can't prove HOW he used the power he drained from the people on Byss you have no point. He could have been using the power to attempt to slow decaying process of the clone bodies, or he could have been adding it to himself, he could have been feeding it into his Dark Side adepts(which we've seen him do) he could have been using it to help smooth over the transfer from clone body to clone body, he could have been using it for Alchemy. Who Knows.

And really you act like this matters...Palpatine set up shop on Byss and began draining the world and its denizens at about 19 BBY, This is the same year when ROTS takes place, where Vader first started the Inquisitors on this planet. So yeah Palpy had this power BEFORE DE.

This is comparable to the stuff DE Sidious pulls off, how? And again, going by the highest form of canon, RotS Sidious has been proven to have highly inferior strength in comparison to his uber DE incarnation.

Who's canon? Planets shitty opinion is not canon. ROTS Sidious has everything DE Sidious has with the exception of added knowledge and a younger body. That HARDLY qualifies him as "uber" over the ROTS version.

So let me get this straight; he starts off pretty average (in terms of speed, and by average, I'm speaking in comparison to the uber descriptions of his DE incarnation), and then just mystically grows super fast in the part of the movie that we conveniently never get to see, and then resumes with his average speed? LMFAO!! 😆

Now, whos using a Strawman (the one Logical Fallacy you seem to know) As I've said in the Yoda duel there is a LARGE cutaway where Sidious gets disarmed, the script describes this segment as furious, and extremely fast. We have the novel calling Palpatine "Shadow" because of the sheer amounts of speed he put out, that when he got going was described as a blur. Then we have NUMEROUS other sources saying he was moving with inhuman speed, we have him moving faster then Maul could blink. Plus, Leeland Chee allows this kind of thought process, so its perfectly valid.

Seriously, that's bullshit, and one of the most ridiculous points I've seen my whole time here.

Considering you put out shit like "Bane moved a moon omg!!!!UBAH I want to lick his left nut!!!!OMMGGG!" my reasoning and logic behind is perfectly valid.

Actually, from what I can see, he's pretty much already done that. It's your fault that the science and maths completely flew over your head.

No. Dip shit he applied a HYPOTHETICAL math equation using OUR Sun as the basis for his reasoning, considering the fact in the Star Wars universe Black Holes DO NOT have to be formed by dieing stars as in our universe they do (as far as we know) the black hole if I'm not mistaken was commented on as being small, also since in fact he cannot prove the exact size of the hole he has no point, for a black hole to suck in an object it doesn't have to be bigger then the object.

Now with that said, he can't even prove HOW much energy it takes to manipulate a black hole. Its the same as you and your Bane is uber crap, you can't substantiate it , therefor you( or he) have no point. So, if you want to in turn argue that Kyp Durron by the age of 30 with only Jedi training was stronger then Sidious who has 40+ years of Dark Side tutelage, said to be the most powerful ever, who beat Yoda, who has Byss, then be my guest.

I actually just read thought these points, and you were the one at fault. You don't seem to get how the term "power" can sometimes just be used to talk in respect to one particular aspect of power (in this case, most likely willpower), and not just overall power.

Blow me. I could care less what you think, he made a completely general statement using power, in which it was regards to Jacen being superior to Luke. No one cares what you think Nebaris get a life and stop coming back with anther dumbass user name (ALL English rappers suck)

Who taught Vader Makashi, and the other forms that he originally didn't know? That's right, Darth SMAN. ✅

Himself, dipshit. Vader is self trained in the lightsaber arts, hence his training with the droids, Inquisitors and battling Jedi he taught HIMSELF, Sidious taught him Dark Side KNOWLEDGE.

Now seriously, Glentract's been destroying you, having Kadesh and Darth Sexy cheer for you like b1tches doesn't change that.

Again blow me Nebaris, I could give two shits on a stick about your opinion, as does probably anyone here. He has yet to prove ONE point of relevance.

Watch the retard go: "LOL!!! who is Nebaris!?!?!?! 💃 😆 😂 🤣 😱 😱 "

This is why I came up with that since Sidious IS the darkside or whatever, the perfect weapon of the darkside, the strongest of the darkside, the sith'ari, the force created Anakin to combat the strongest user of the darkside. A sort of "The devil returns and God creates Jesus" nonsense. It makes sense, it just didn't pan out that way(especially since Luke became Jesus).

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Nebaris...Nebaris...please prove that "an increase in force strength grants one with greater pain threshold" please with novel, sourcebook, movies quotes. I see dooku get BOTH his hands chopped off, and he only has a "Well would you look at that" expression on his face. He didn't scream, cry or yell out in extreme agony as Gletrant(whatever his name is) seems to imply what will happen to everyone but Jacen. With that said Sidious was already leagues above Dooku at that time, Dooku himself was shitting his pants at the thought of fighting Sidious. So Sidious had he had his hand chopped off would likely look at it and move on.

Well he had 60+ years by ROTS to master the Dark Side, he displays feats on the level of his DE self ie: Moving faster then the eye can see the eye of Darth Maul at that. By TMP was already called the strongest Sith ever, because of his expansive dark side power and knowledge. That and being called already at the time the most powerful practitioner of of the Dark Side, he literally was the dark side. So yeah by ROTS (or shortly after) I'd say he peaked, the extra Sith knowledge allowed him to apply his extreme power in other ways not known to him previously (The Force Storm) And since you can't prove HOW he used the power he drained from the people on Byss you have no point. He could have been using the power to attempt to slow decaying process of the clone bodies, or he could have been adding it to himself, he could have been feeding it into his Dark Side adepts(which we've seen him do) he could have been using it to help smooth over the transfer from clone body to clone body, he could have been using it for Alchemy. Who Knows.

And really you act like this matters...Palpatine set up shop on Byss and began draining the world and its denizens at about 19 BBY, This is the same year when ROTS takes place, where Vader first started the Inquisitors on this planet. So yeah Palpy had this power BEFORE DE.

Who's canon? Planets shitty opinion is not canon. ROTS Sidious has everything DE Sidious has with the exception of added knowledge and a younger body. That HARDLY qualifies him as "uber" over the ROTS version.

Now, whos using a Strawman (the one Logical Fallacy you seem to know) As I've said in the Yoda duel there is a LARGE cutaway where Sidious gets disarmed, the script describes this segment as furious, and extremely fast. We have the novel calling Palpatine "Shadow" because of the sheer amounts of speed he put out, that when he got going was described as a blur. Then we have NUMEROUS other sources saying he was moving with inhuman speed, we have him moving faster then Maul could blink. Plus, Leeland Chee allows this kind of thought process, so its perfectly valid.

Considering you put out shit like "Bane moved a moon omg!!!!UBAH I want to lick his left nut!!!!OMMGGG!" my reasoning and logic behind is perfectly valid.

No. Dip shit he applied a HYPOTHETICAL math equation using OUR Sun as the basis for his reasoning, considering the fact in the Star Wars universe Black Holes DO NOT have to be formed by dieing stars as in our universe they do (as far as we know) the black hole if I'm not mistaken was commented on as being small, also since in fact he cannot prove the exact size of the hole he has no point, for a black hole to suck in an object it doesn't have to be bigger then the object.

Now with that said, he can't even prove HOW much energy it takes to manipulate a black hole. Its the same as you and your Bane is uber crap, you can't substantiate it , therefor you( or he) have no point. So, if you want to in turn argue that Kyp Durron by the age of 30 with only Jedi training was stronger then Sidious who has 40+ years of Dark Side tutelage, said to be the most powerful ever, who beat Yoda, who has Byss, then be my guest.

Blow me. I could care less what you think, he made a completely general statement using power, in which it was regards to Jacen being superior to Luke. No one cares what you think Nebaris get a life and stop coming back with anther dumbass user name (ALL English rappers suck)

Himself, dipshit. Vader is self trained in the lightsaber arts, hence his training with the droids, Inquisitors and battling Jedi he taught HIMSELF, Sidious taught him Dark Side KNOWLEDGE.

Again blow me Nebaris, I could give two shits on a stick about your opinion, as does probably anyone here. He has yet to prove ONE point of relevance.

Watch the retard go: "LOL!!! who is Nebaris!?!?!?! 💃 😆 😂 🤣 😱 😱 "

Spoiler:
LOL!!! who is Nebaris!?!?!?!

Cute.

Come on Nebaris (if it is you, which it seems very likely) at least try acting better....

I smell the stench of Nebaris. Jesus, the guy is so damn obvious that it's pathetic.

Edit: By the way, I only recall Sidious draining the "lifeforce" from Byss to increase his own. Where is it said that he used it to increase his strength and potential in the Force?