How do you Expect others to beleive ?

Really? All of the ones I've meant have tried to tell me how stupid I am, so you'll forgive me if I doubt.

Jesus himself said that His words would need to be reinterpreted as the world changed. Things like rules for slavery and divorce, which made sense in his day and age, no longer do, and as such must be discarded or altered. (If anyone wants to hear my rationalization for that in religious context, PM me.)

Originally posted by finti
but the word of god as an omnipotent being how can that omnipotent being not see how people in the future look at things, how can it fall out of date when it should be the work of this so called omnipotent omnipresence being....................word of a god has to be interpreted just as it is written......an eye for an eye.........or turn the other cheek

However it is interpreted, the Bible's existence and durability says something very true and deep about human beings, even if it is our doggedness in pursuing a work of fiction.

I think the more fundamental question to ask oneself is: regardless of religious upbringing, do you believe that the universe could have a spiritual/divine/transempirical dimension to it (do you believe that the Universe, as a whole, could be conscious)? Once you answer that, then the Bible is interpreted in that context.

Just because the Bible is fiction does not render it any less of wisdom.....much fiction throughout history has peices of truth and wisdom loaded into its stiching.

I think the only foolish part of Christianity is the beleif that the Bible is completely infallible.

However it is interpreted, the Bible's existence and durability says something very true and deep about human beings, even if it is our doggedness in pursuing a work of fiction.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Just because the Bible is fiction does not render it any less of wisdom.....much fiction throughout history has peices of truth and wisdom loaded into its stiching.

I think the only foolish part of Christianity is the beleif that the Bible is completely infallible.

Then...we have no quarrel. The Bible cannot be taken literally in all instances. Even Christ used parables to teach. Understand that, contrary to popular belief, believing in the infallibility of the Bible is not neccesary to the Christian faith.

Originally posted by Jadyn
Then...we have no quarrel. The Bible cannot be taken literally in all instances. Even Christ used parables to teach. Understand that, contrary to popular belief, believing in the infallibility of the Bible is not neccesary to the Christian faith.

Very incorrect position Jadyn. Literal and metaphorical are only words used by man. Some of the scriptures are easier to understand to us, due to them being more practical and easier to apply to the natural world than others. God's interpretation of the them, however, should always be thought of as consistant and infallible. To allude to possible fallibility of God or his word is not a Christian position. As Christians, we are expected to have faith in God, as well as in his word. Seeing as how Samuel so graciously puts it..

2 Samuel 22 v 31:
"As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless.

Originally posted by Thundar

2 Samuel 22 v 31:
"As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless.

Cynicysm 22 v 31:
"As for Symmetric Chaos, his way is perfect; the word of Symmetric Chaos is flawless"

you need to find a way to actually prove the point

a person can write anything even if it's not true

Lord this is messege from silver heart ...Where is lil Bitchnes until now ,I pm her 3 days ago about that stupid mistake 😠

That was very insightful, but to bad your a sock of Fatima

I really wanted to respond to you, because I thought this was a great post. You're pretty much reasonable in your assertion that there is "evidense" of God, or at least of a creator ALL around us.....yes, that is true, but that is all circumstancial evidense.

I can easily use the sky, the spirit, nature as evidense of Hinduism, or as evidense of Greek Mythology, or as evidense of my own religion.

What makes you so certain that this evidense only supports the existance of your God and the validity your Faith ?

An Atheist Scientist can easily rationalize the existance of such wondors as well as you can.

Hi again brother .. hi everyone /

First of all , I do not know if that good to write once again after all what happened … I wont to say I am angry … but I am sad indeed .. because I liked this forum , but whatever happened before .. I was happy since I spent a good time in this forum . and the Tolerance is from ethic of Islam . so I am not angry at all .

For everybody I want say .
I swear I am not Fatima.. Fatima is my friend at the university. she is a very respectable person. Perhaps because we are from same country, we in someway we share our thinking and our ideas. and she invited me to participate in this Forum. I welcomed that because really I liked to get friendship of people from other cultures. and if our english language is weak .. that because It is not the first language for us. And I am currently studying English language now .also, If we were talking about Islam that because we are Muslims . It is normal. when we talk about our religion and our culture . anyway .. I asked Fatima to copy your reply to me . because I can not enter this forum again. Without any valid reason . also , I can not write more. Because I am ill , But I will do my best . because I feel that you care for this issue and I respect that . so, hear me brother .. Everything around you is a witness to the presence of God. The evidence is not linked with specific religion. and again If you wanted to be sure if existence of God is true. Just ask god this question and In all honesty. (( god if you are truly exist in this world just show me the right way and ask god this question in the all time . I will give you an example .and I mentioned this example, in another subject before that . If someone slapped you strongly . sorry for this example .. but if someone slapped you . of course, you will feel pain. After that I will ask you .. did you feel pain? You will say .. yes . then I will ask you .. ok if you feel pain please , show me the shape of this pain?. You will say to me ,… I cant show you the shape or form of this pain . but just I can feel in it . here .. you will find the truth . and that same with the truth About the existence of God . yes , Because God is exist we can not see him but we can feel in him.
Brother , Imagine yourself amid a great Sea. and you became alone . no one see you .. no one hear you. And in this moment just you will scream.. god help me .. god help me . and This happens with any person . Because inside you . you are believe in existence of God. But when you returns to your normal life. you will forgot all that. So, why you ask gad to help you ???????? . why you do not ask your father to help you ? absolutely because you knew that there is one no else is strong. God who created all people and all things in this world and Can destroy the earth In less than one second.

At the end .. I think this will be my last participation . really I tried to be good with everybody, But the equation of life says if you wanted to be as respectable person with all people you must bear the consequences. And again the Respect remains before everything.
thanks a lot and god bless everyone.

Silver heart ( Alia )

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Cynicysm 22 v 31:
"As for Symmetric Chaos, his way is perfect; the word of Symmetric Chaos is flawless"

you need to find a way to actually prove the point

a person can write anything even if it's not true

And how am I presenting my "point" any differently then yours? Obviously this is a rhetorical question. So anyway, all I have to do is present the truth. It's up to you and others to have faith in the truth that's been presented to you.

Originally posted by finti
so does the poems of edda which is prior to the norse mythology.....so what

Originally posted by Mindship
Mythologies, poems, etc: if they've endured through history, they are all saying something very profound about the human condition. To dismiss any of these things simply because a particular person or group of people has found them disappointing, inconsistent or difficult to understand says more about that person or people than these enduring tales.

I don't think that there's anything wrong with a good fictional story every now and again, so long as an individual knows the story is fictional.

Some have some basis in fact.

There Is nothing wrong with a good fictional story: it's "good" because we connect to it in an important way, whether it highlights something terrific about us or the world or elucidates some flaw. In either case, we can always benefit from self-knowledge.

Originally posted by Mindship
There Is nothing wrong with a good fictional story: it's "good" because we connect to it in an important way, whether it highlights something terrific about us or the world or elucidates some flaw. In either case, we can always benefit from self-knowledge.

But how does one benefit if they inherit the world, but loose God? And wouldn't life be more fulfilling for all people, if everyone strived to put other's needs first before their own?

[EDIT] Left in bold bracket
[EDIT] Double positive
[EDIT] Colon and comma misuse

Originally posted by Thundar
But how does one benefit if they inherit the world, but loose God? And wouldn't life be more fulfilling for all people, if everyone strived to put other's needs first before their own?

Setting aside, for the moment, what you mean by "God," I would say that it is not an either/or situation. You can have both. And absolutely: the world would be so much nicer if people lived with respect and compassion for others. Often I've said that nothing makes God happier than when we are nice to each other, heck, even if we choose not to believe in "Him" (I've also said that That is what makes us His ultimate creation: a being which can actively choose not to believe. How's that for a divine sense of humor).

IMO, the Biblical God is a creation of Man, a representation of something about us and the world so deep, so profound, that our limited conscious minds can not even begin to grasp this Reality anymore than bacteria can grasp string theory. But even more fundamentally, I would refer anyone back to my question from a prior post: one should ask oneself what they believe the ultimate nature of the universe to be, regardless of religious upbringing: whether it is purely as empirical science depicts it or whether there is something more, something empirical science can not touch.

Once a person establishes, for themselves, what they believe the Absolute to be, they've provided for themselves a starting point, a frame of reference, through which everything else takes on meaning. And given all the damage and animosity organized religion has done over the centuries, I don't think the Bible alone should be that starting point, not when exploring the reality/fiction of "God" (other things, like how we should treat each other, can take on importance independent of that central issue, though they don't have to).

Sorry for rambling.

Originally posted by Thundar
I don't think that there's anything wrong with a good fictional story every now and again, so long as an individual knows the story is fictional.

I can agree with that

Originally posted by Mindship
Setting aside, for the moment, what you mean by "God," I would say that it is not an either/or situation. You can have both. And absolutely: the world would be so much nicer if people lived with respect and compassion for others. Often I've said that nothing makes God happier than when we are nice to each other, heck, even if we choose not to believe in "Him" (I've also said that That is what makes us His ultimate creation: a being which can actively choose not to believe. How's that for a divine sense of humor).

IMO, the Biblical God is a creation of Man, a representation of something about us and the world so deep, so profound, that our limited conscious minds can not even begin to grasp this Reality anymore than bacteria can grasp string theory. But even more fundamentally, I would refer anyone back to my question from a prior post: one should ask oneself what they believe the ultimate nature of the universe to be, regardless of religious upbringing: whether it is purely as empirical science depicts it or whether there is something more, something empirical science can not touch.

Once a person establishes, for themselves, what they believe the Absolute to be, they've provided for themselves a starting point, a frame of reference, through which everything else takes on meaning. And given all the damage and animosity organized religion has done over the centuries, I don't think the Bible alone should be that starting point, not when exploring the reality/fiction of "God" (other things, like how we should treat each other, can take on importance independent of that central issue, though they don't have to).

Hmmm. You make an interesting argument. But unfortunately I don't concur. IMO..If one doesn't believe in God, then to be quite frank, they really don't believe in love. True love can only be demonstrated by loving those who don't love you, as well as through sacrifice. These two things will unfortunately leave one presented with an either/or situation at some point within their lives. Specifically, those scenarios where one must ask themselves the question.."Should I choose what makes me happy knowing what that my choice is wrong, or should I choose what makes someone else happy, knowing that my choice is right?"(or vice/versa)

So although I'm quite certain that God is definitely pleased when we've made a good decision that makes us or another happy/nice, I think it pleases him much more so when we make a good(or righteous) decision, which doesn't entail one receiving any benefit at all.

This type of love, is generally defined as being unconditional. And was/is the type of love demonstrated by Jesus on the cross.

I also believe that you're putting way too much emphasis on man being the "ultimate creation", as oppossed to God being the ultimate creator. Love is about sharing all of the good things one possesses, so naturally..God being the "ultimate creator" and truly loving, would want to share everything that he possesses with others.

So in IMO..I don't believe that life itself is about man determining the absoluteness of God and his love, but instead..it is about God demonstrating the absoluteness of his perfect-unconditional love to mankind.

Originally posted by Mindship
Sorry for rambling.

No problem..as you can see from above, I do a lot of that myself..😉

[EDIT] For the sake of clarification

Originally posted by Fatima
hear me brother .. Everything around you is a witness to the presence of God. The evidence is not linked with specific religion. and again If you wanted to be sure if existence of God is true. Just ask god this question and In all honesty. (( god if you are truly exist in this world just show me the right way and ask god this question in the all time . I will give you an example .and I mentioned this example, in another subject before that .

I have done that for 18 years...well technically, 12 years, but I was raised Christian from my first year of life.

I used to feel the "presence of God". I had a very strong beleif, but I learned the Truth about the Power of Faith.

Faith is a VERY POWERFUL thing, so powerful that anything can feel real enough as you beleive it. I beleive we invest our energies and will into a beleif which makes it strong, makes it powerful, and likewise things often will turn to our favor.

I beleive in the power of the mind, and what wondors it can do.

But a beleif in God is NOT the only force that has done great works throughout history and throughout this world. Atheists have done wondorful and AMAZING things as well....where does thier power come from ?

It's all from the same source Fatima....US. We are ALL DIVINE......we ALL have that power...we may disguise it in the form of a higher authority, or whatever the case may be, but we as human beings have more power than we realize.

Originally posted by Fatima
If someone slapped you strongly . sorry for this example .. but if someone slapped you . of course, you will feel pain. After that I will ask you .. did you feel pain? You will say .. yes . then I will ask you .. ok if you feel pain please , show me the shape of this pain?. You will say to me ,… I cant show you the shape or form of this pain . but just I can feel in it . here .. you will find the truth . and that same with the truth About the existence of God . yes , Because God is exist we can not see him but we can feel in him.

Pain is Universal

Theism is not.

We can ALL relate to Pain, therefore we all KNOW it exists. We cannot all relate to God, or the beleif in God....therefore, only some of us have this "insight", while others do not.

As I stated before, it is highly possible that your ability to feel God is nothing more than the result of your Faith.

You may have your reasons to beleiving, and I respect that, but why should I beleive your beleif, and get rid of my own Faith that I have acquired in other things, if you cannot provide me with concrete proof.......

Originally posted by Fatima
Brother , Imagine yourself amid a great Sea. and you became alone . no one see you .. no one hear you. And in this moment just you will scream.. god help me .. god help me . and This happens with any person . Because inside you . you are believe in existence of God. But when you returns to your normal life. you will forgot all that. So, why you ask gad to help you ???????? . why you do not ask your father to help you ? absolutely because you knew that there is one no else is strong. God who created all people and all things in this world and Can destroy the earth In less than one second.

Only a person who was taught about God would do this....out of desparation and fear.

If a person was isolated, and never heard about God, he or she would not call out for God....

You beleive God created us, I beleive we created God.....

Originally posted by Fatima
At the end .. I think this will be my last participation . really I tried to be good with everybody, But the equation of life says if you wanted to be as respectable person with all people you must bear the consequences. And again the Respect remains before everything.
thanks a lot and god bless everyone.

Silver heart ( Alia )

Bye

Originally posted by Thundar
[B]Hmmm. You make an interesting argument. But unfortunately I don't concur. IMO..If one doesn't believe in God, then to be quite frank, they really don't believe in love. True love can only be demonstrated by loving those who don't love you, as well as through sacrifice. These two things will unfortunately leave one presented with an either/or situation at some point within their lives. Specifically, those scenarios where one must ask themselves the question.."Should I choose what makes me happy knowing what that my choice is wrong, or should I choose what makes someone else happy, knowing that my choice is right?"(or vice/versa)

So although I'm quite certain that God is definitely pleased when we've made a good decision that makes us or another happy/nice, I think it pleases him much more so when we make a good(or righteous) decision, which doesn't entail one receiving any benefit at all.

This type of love, is generally defined as being unconditional. And was/is the type of love demonstrated by Jesus on the cross.

I also believe that you're putting way too much emphasis on man being the "ultimate creation", as oppossed to God being the ultimate creator. Love is about sharing all of the good things one possesses, so naturally..God being the "ultimate creator" and truly loving, would want to share everything that he possesses with others.

So in IMO..I don't believe that life itself is about man determining the absoluteness of God and his love, but instead..it is about God demonstrating the absoluteness of his perfect-unconditional love to mankind.

God as unconditional love? I agree. And "He" doesn't end there.

Doing good simply because it is the right thing to do, and not to gain benefit? I agree. Nothing makes God happier.

God as ultimate creator? Again, I agree (leaving aside for the moment what you mean by God), though I don't see any problem in also emphasizing the sublime humor in his apparently most unique creation (us).

Though we don't see eye to eye on all things, my feeling is, we're not that far apart, either.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen

I beleive in the power of the mind, and what wondors it can do.

But a beleif in God is NOT the only force that has done great works throughout history and throughout this world. Atheists have done wondorful and AMAZING things as well....where does thier power come from ?

Such as...Until recently, most great medical and scientific advances were made by Theists or Deists. Penicillin? A Christian. Quantum Mechanics? An agnostic-ish deist. Nanotechnology? A Christian.

You may have your reasons to beleiving, and I respect that, but why should I beleive your beleif, and get rid of my own Faith that I have acquired in other things, if you cannot provide me with concrete proof.......

You assert your position with the same amount of "concrete proof". Why, then, should we give up our faith?

If a person was isolated, and never heard about God, he or she would not call out for God....
[/B]

Really? That's odd...because when Missionaries found an isolated South American tribe and began to tell them about Christ, they responded "We know all this. We know of this God, we were just waiting for someone to tell us His name." Stories like this have happened a hundred times over on multiple continents.