The PT vs. The Old-School

Started by Gideon10 pages

I have to interject with these bullshit statistics. If Dooku is 50% of the Emperor - the most powerful Sith in history - then it's impossible for Revan to be "twice as powerful".

Originally posted by Kadesh
S_w_legend no offence but you are the most annoying person i have ever argued with, You still continue to argue points you have conceded and where other people have refuted time and again, This arguement we are going through is worse than what i , sith'ari and rocasatoll have been through.

You have said this to many persons before. Who-ever debates with you and does not agrees with your points, you tell him/her that that person is the most annoying person you have debated with. You can't stay civil and do not want to understand views of others. Did I forced you to accept my views? No

I have posted my own views and if you don't agree then move on.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Example, i keep telling the SF does not and will not increase ones saber skills and revan simply pwned them in a duel, you still want to ramble that the SF makes them strong which isnt the case since they get pwned on impact with a lightsaber

SF can help Dark Siders by replenishing their power. This has been shown in the KOTOR. And Battle Meditation ability can enhance effectiveness of an entire army. Bastilla was using her Battle Meditation to aid entire Sith military in that battle. Obviously the Sith military stationed inside the Star Forge was also being effected by it and thus when Revan faced them, those Sith were being aided by Battle Meditation. They were fighting much more effectively then they normally would in other places. You simply cannot understand this logic, so it is not my problem.

Remember that Battle Meditation can enhance the over-all effectiveness of the fighting capabilities of an individual. This is why those Dark Jedi were posing a big challenge. But you keep on calling them weaklings without considering other factors.

I agree that Light Saber skills of an individual cannot change even by Meditation power but if effectiveness is boosted of that individual through Meditation, then that individual will fight better. This is very common knowledge and you forget this. Those Dark Jedi were utilizing their Saber Skills as well Force abilities in the fight against Revan.

Originally posted by Kadesh
secondly i sense a shit load of denail in you, you just cannot accept the fact that sidious > revan and yoda > revan and you always love to ramble "revan is very close", Close in what sense? You never specify and when i ask you to, you give the SF bullshit that he killed Dark jedis whos saber skills are shit compared to actuall jedis and sith lords like revan jolee and juhani.

I always accepted that Sidious > Revan and even Yoda > Revan but you have to note that Revan is no Count Dooku or Darth Maul. He is among the most powerful characters in Star Wars. I don't want to type an entire history regarding him because you should anaylze his achievements and then think that how did he achieved so much.

Provide me one statement of mine in which I have said that Revan > Sidious or Revan > Yoda? But you can't because I am not arrogant in my views and like to agree with facts.

I am not perfect indeed but still I try to be good. Anyways! if you don't agree then move on. You post your views and don't bother with mine.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Like i said, its Kotor2 who made revan look strong, Not Drews pathetic attempt to make revan look god. FFS drew is so stupid he even wrote sirak using vaapad in the book however this is not the case. And when i say "vader can do this" For some unknown reason you would just say "o revan can do that" so what? Is it relevant to the debate at all? Fcuk no why cant you just fcuking except the fact that vader can do somethings that revan can, I never ever specified vader being stronger than revan.
Lastly your hypocrisy is just as annoying, you bitched at me that vader killing droids is not a big thing, and yet you use them in this debate
I Admit i contradicted myself about the dooku part, but again we dont know for sure where dooku stands and i dont like the assumption you made, I did assume dooku is 50% of sidious to counter your silly assumption of revan being more than twice the power of dooku, then you changed your words , you now say he is close to twice the power because you followed my assumption.

KOTOR II in your opinion made him look strong. Obsidian did every thing to make Jedi Exile the most powerful Jedi ever but they failed. And I repeat that they failed. They introduced some very ridiculous concepts in Star Wars and destroyed the simplicity in Star Wars.

KOTOR was still much more believable and decent and simple. And Drew really is a creative man.

Regarding Dooku's power, I said that if I follow your logic then Revan is still close to being 2x of Dooku. Remember that Lucas considered Anakin to be much more powerful then either Dooku and Maul. Anakin's Raw power was very close to that of Sidious (who is the most powerful Sith Lord ever known).

Do you remember that Lucas said that Anakin after being horriedly injured in the fight (against Obi Wan) was now on par with likes of Dooku and Maul?

These are the words of Lucas regarding Darth Vader: "But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor -- he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku."

If you have read the rolling stones interview then you would know this. Lucas views cannot be so easily ignored! kadesh!

Revan being above Anakin would be also much more powerful then the likes of Dooku and Maul. You do not understand this then it is not my problem.

Also Drew admitted his mistake regarding Vaapad thing. He said that he wanted to mention Juyo but it was a mistake from his side. But it was already too late for him to correct that mistake. So you can't say that he is not a creative man. He is the one who has made Star Wars much more interesting for me and many other people.

Originally posted by Kadesh
S_W_legend, there are somethings you have to except and move on, i accepted the fact revan > vader so why cant you accept certen things?

Now chose, continue the idiotic debate above this post and further destroy both our morales or talk to me about this right here

Then maybe we will settle this civily unless of course you chose to continue the idiotic debate because if you do i will too.


I have accepted lots of things and explained them above in most appropriate manner. If you can understand my points now then good and if not then move on! man!

Originally posted by Gideon
I have to interject with these bullshit statistics. If Dooku is 50% of the Emperor - the most powerful Sith in history - then it's impossible for Revan to be "twice as powerful".

We don't know that how strong Dooku is compared to Sidious.

Lucas said that Darth Vader after being horriedly injured in the fight against Obi-Wan was reduced to as powerful as Maul or Dooku were.

Anakin (in perfect form) was so powerful that his Raw Strength was close to that of Sidious. He finished off Dooku in very short time, when he decided to win. This shows that how strong Dooku really was when compared with likes of Anakin, Revan and Sidious.

No. Lucas said he was "like Maul or Dooku" - in that he did not have the power to become stronger than the Emperor. He was not as powerful as Maul and Dooku, considering how Dooku and Maul aren't of even power.

If Dooku is half of Sidious (which is what you two seemed to agree on), then Revan can't be twice that, considering he is still weaker than Sidious is.

Edit: And Anakin's "raw strength" is much more potent than Sidious's own - or anybody else's.

Originally posted by Gideon
No. Lucas said he was "like Maul or Dooku" - in that he did not have the power to become stronger than the Emperor. He was not as powerful as Maul and Dooku, considering how Dooku and Maul aren't of even power.

If Dooku is half of Sidious (which is what you two seemed to agree on), then Revan can't be twice that, considering he is still weaker than Sidious is.

Edit: And Anakin's "raw strength" is much more potent than Sidious's own - or anybody else's.


50% of Sidious part is assumption of Kadesh. What I actually stated that if we follow this assumption then in such case Revan is close to being 2x of Sidious.

I believe that Anakin and Revan were exponentially greater then Dooku and Maul.

Lucas actually said that Anakin (in perfect form as shown in ROTS) was as strong as Emperor. But after being horriedly injured, he was reduced to level of Maul and Dooku.

ROTS Vader was indeed amazingly strong and so was Revan.

Sorry! I mean't Revan being close to 2x of Dooku.

I mistakenly mentioned 2x of Sidious in my above post.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You have said this to many persons before. Who-ever debates with you and does not agrees with your points, you tell him/her that that person is the most annoying person you have debated with. You can't stay civil and do not want to understand views of others. Did I forced you to accept my views? No

I have posted my own views and if you don't agree then move on.

Actually no one would agree with you , and who else have i stated to be the most irritatating other than you or sith'ari?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

SF can help Dark Siders by replenishing their power. This has been shown in the KOTOR. And Battle Meditation ability can enhance effectiveness of an entire army. Bastilla was using her Battle Meditation to aid entire Sith military in that battle. Obviously the Sith military stationed inside the Star Forge was also being effected by it and thus when Revan faced them, those Sith were being aided by Battle Meditation. They were fighting much more effectively then they normally would in other places. You simply cannot understand this logic, so it is not my problem.
Again i ask, Does BM increase your skill? No it doesnt, again revans power of the force and his saber skills own them, weather or not they are powered up, S_w_legend im sick of this petty bullshit. Revan is superior to them in every way and just because he kills them means what? Lightsabers kill on impacts and there will never be a time when a stupid sith soldier can kill a jedi when he is focused. Your using an example where revan shitted on his enemies simply because they are less skillful than he is.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

[b]Remember that Battle Meditation can enhance the over-all effectiveness of the fighting capabilities of an individual.
This is why those Dark Jedi were posing a big challenge. But you keep on calling them weaklings without considering other factors.
[/B]
I agree to an extent, its more of build up confidence in your allies and sadly i have to say that it didnt effect revans confidence, Again sith soliders and dark jedis are nothing compared to some one who has killed many people and being the strongest force user at that time.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I agree that Light Saber skills of an individual cannot change even by Meditation power but if effectiveness is boosted of that individual through Meditation, then that individual will fight better. This is very common knowledge and you forget this. Those Dark Jedi were utilizing their Saber Skills as well Force abilities in the fight against Revan.
Again revan still > them weather they or they are not powered up. Fighting better doesnt garentee victory, And by the way even before getting SF powered up, those DJ could be shit who cant even fight and boosting them up with the SF may only make them on a jedis level, i have no proof so this is my assumption. Again fighting better will not mean you are stronger

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I always accepted that Sidious > Revan and even Yoda > Revan but you have to note that Revan is no Count Dooku or Darth Maul. He is among the most powerful characters in Star Wars. I don't want to type an entire history regarding him because you should anaylze his achievements and then think that how did he achieved so much.
Actually you do accpet the fact, not until i pull out a few quotes, check DE sidious vs revan, you claimed revan can kill palpatine with his force lightning storm and with yoda, you claimed revan knew techniques yoda has never heard of implying that yoda may or may not get killed by revan. But fine since you condeded this ill drop this
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Provide me one statement of mine in which I have said that Revan > Sidious or Revan > Yoda? But you can't because I am not arrogant in my views and like to agree with facts.
See the above its simply there.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I am not perfect indeed but still I try to be good. Anyways! if you don't agree then move on. You post your views and don't bother with mine.
Fine by me

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

KOTOR II in your opinion made him look strong. Obsidian did every thing to make Jedi Exile the most powerful Jedi ever but they failed. And I repeat that they failed. They introduced some very ridiculous concepts in Star Wars and destroyed the simplicity in Star Wars.
Hah yea i read that in the EU thread i think but it was what made revan look so almighty in my opinion, POD hardly did anything, some come from the original kotor too.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

KOTOR was still much more believable and decent and simple. And Drew really is a creative man.
I do agree to a certein extent but i wont bring this out. His novel severely contradits jedi vs sith and a few other things
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Regarding Dooku's power, I said that [b]if
I follow your logic then Revan is still close to being 2x of Dooku. Remember that Lucas considered Anakin to be much more powerful then either Dooku and Maul. Anakin's Raw power was very close to that of Sidious (who is the most powerful Sith Lord ever known). [/B]
Can we drop this already? i find it pointless to go on rambling
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Do you remember that Lucas said that Anakin after being horriedly injured in the fight (against Obi Wan) was now on par with likes of Dooku and Maul?
i do know that
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

[b]These are the words of Lucas regarding Darth Vader:
"But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor -- he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku."
[/B]
And i thought you said vader surpassed dooku in every way? For one thing i dont believe GL much longer, he has inconsistencies, want some examples?
[/B][/QUOTE] i do know that
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

If you have read the rolling stones interview then you would know this. Lucas views cannot be so easily ignored! kadesh!
Sure i have, he can say r2 is the most powerful being
in the SW universe and people will simply ignore him because it is ilogical
[/B][/QUOTE] i do know that
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Revan being above Anakin would be also much more powerful then the likes of Dooku and Maul. You do not understand this then it is not my problem.
And didnt the rolling stones say that anakin was as strong as the emperor? Ill support you on this one, revan IS above anakin but trust me legend dont believe that quote, thats already makine anakin as powerful as the strongest sith lord in the galaxy[/B][/QUOTE] i do know that
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Also Drew admitted his mistake regarding Vaapad thing. He said that he wanted to mention Juyo but it was a mistake from his side. But it was already too late for him to correct that mistake. So you can't say that he is not a creative man. He is the one who has made Star Wars much more interesting for me and many other people.

I just read this on wookiepedia
[/B][/QUOTE] i do know that
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I have accepted lots of things and explained them above in most appropriate manner. If you can understand my points now then good and if not then move on! man!
Understood some of them, cept for the SF bullshit but fine ill concede,

A request, would you like to debate about the rolling stone interview? i really want to put revan above anakin but that idiotic quote GL just stated is full of shit. ill concede all my points on this matter ok?

EDIT

the fued between acstyles and Darth sexy was EXTREMELY funny especially when both of their posts got removed(no offence)

LOL I have the Post Wars between them in my profile....

Originally posted by Kadesh
Actually no one would agree with you , and who else have i stated to be the most irritatating other than you or sith'ari?

We don't know that what others are thinking about my points in this thread. They can post and point out and one just did that.

Currently it is between you and me.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Again i ask, Does BM increase your skill? No it doesnt, again revans power of the force and his saber skills own them, weather or not they are powered up, S_w_legend im sick of this petty bullshit. Revan is superior to them in every way and just because he kills them means what? Lightsabers kill on impacts and there will never be a time when a stupid sith soldier can kill a jedi when he is focused. Your using an example where revan shitted on his enemies simply because they are less skillful than he is.

BM can increase your over-all effectiveness. It makes one perfect and degrades the other. This is what happened in case of DE Luke vs Sidious fight and this is what happened in case of Battle of Star Forge, in which BM aided Sith Army fought against Revan but Revan managed to defy all odds.

Revan had to face an entire Sith Army that was heavily armed and aided by BM of Bastilla and also had to deal with defences of Star Forge and finally face a well prepared Malak. He was stacked against heavy odds of all kinds and had support of a very small squad. You should understand that it was a massive challenge for any individual and Sith already had numerous advantages. The Republic would have never won in that war if Revan was not in that fight so he played a very significant role in turning the tide of that war. It was a huge accomplishment and Dooku cannot compete against such a powerful individual.

Originally posted by Kadesh
I agree to an extent, its more of build up confidence in your allies and sadly i have to say that it didnt effect revans confidence, Again sith soliders and dark jedis are nothing compared to some one who has killed many people and being the strongest force user at that time. Again revan still > them weather they or they are not powered up. Fighting better doesnt garentee victory, And by the way even before getting SF powered up, those DJ could be shit who cant even fight and boosting them up with the SF may only make them on a jedis level, i have no proof so this is my assumption. Again fighting better will not mean you are stronger

Because Revan had such a strong will that it could not be shattered by anything. Malachor failed to shatter his will and even Bastilla's powerful BM failed to shatter his will. You can say that Revan was iron-willed or something. Revan is indeed much more powerful then those Dark Jedi but they had massive advantages in various ways that I have pointed out before and will point out again here below:

- Dark Jedi were in huge numbers
- They had backing from Elite Sith Troopers
- They had backing of BM of Bastilla
- They had backing of Star Forge Defences

All these factors count. Thus it was an over-whelming situation but Revan still won. Now imagine how strong he is with cool-mind.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Actually you do accpet the fact, not until i pull out a few quotes, check DE sidious vs revan, you claimed revan can kill palpatine with his force lightning storm and with yoda, you claimed revan knew techniques yoda has never heard of implying that yoda may or may not get killed by revan. But fine since you condeded this ill drop this

You must note that Force Storm (be it a Lightning one or other) is a deadly dark side power. It can cause massive damage. I won't get in to details on this. You will have your own perceptions regarding Force Storms.

And my point regarding Yoda remains. Revan's details were only known to Bane and he made sure that his holocron does not remains after learning from it. Revan did knew some unique things that Yoda would not have heard about, since Yoda did not had access to Revan's holocron because it was not present in his time and became a legend.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Hah yea i read that in the EU thread i think but it was what made revan look so almighty in my opinion, POD hardly did anything, some come from the original kotor too.

Many people consider POD to be a better source for indication of power of Revan then KOTOR II. But like I said before that different people have different perceptions. And I respect your perceptions as well.

Originally posted by Kadesh
I do agree to a certein extent but i wont bring this out. His novel severely contradits jedi vs sith and a few other things

He can make mistakes as well because he is a human being. But Leeland Chee also made several mistakes in New Essential Chronology regarding subject of KOTOR. I trust Drew's work more then Lee's work regarding the subject of KOTOR era stories.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Can we drop this already? i find it pointless to go on rambling

Fine

Originally posted by Kadesh
i do know that And i thought you said vader surpassed dooku in every way? For one thing i dont believe GL much longer, he has inconsistencies, want some examples?

I still say that Vader surpassed Dooku in every way because he was more powerful. But OT Vader lost much of his true power when he became a Cyborg. He was now in logical sense like Dooku or Maul for Sidious. That is why Sidious wanted to turn Luke to Dark Side because he believed that Son could become that what his father was destined to.

Originally posted by Kadesh
i do know that Sure i have, he can say r2 is the most powerful being

He would never say such a thing.

Originally posted by Kadesh
in the SW universe and people will simply ignore him because it is ilogical

They won't have to because Lucas is not an idiot.

Originally posted by Kadesh
i do know that And didnt the rolling stones say that anakin was as strong as the emperor? Ill support you on this one, revan IS above anakin but trust me legend dont believe that quote, thats already makine anakin as powerful as the strongest sith lord in the galaxy i do know that I just read this on wookiepedia

Lucas was actually indicating towards Anakin's Raw Power here and also his great Potential. I can be wrong here but if he is really saying that Anakin (ROTS) is as powerful as Emperor then he is contradicting his own movies. But I believe that Lucas knows what he says or some one needs to contact him for more clarification on this.

Originally posted by Kadesh
A request, would you like to debate about the rolling stone interview? i really want to put revan above anakin but that idiotic quote GL just stated is full of shit. ill concede all my points on this matter ok? [/B]

No problem! Kadesh!

I respect your views as well. I am willing to debate on Rolling Stones interview, if you are interested. 😉

Well im up for the rolling stones interview debate