Hmm, if you're tortured permanently in hell...

Originally posted by Regret
Unless one believes in a literal physical resurrection.

I think one would also have to believe that those in hell will be a physically resurrected, to support what you've posted above. I don't think the bible alludes to a physical resurrection of those in hell. I believe it alludes to physical resurrection and life being intended for those who have accepted(or abided in) Christ.

John 15:4-6
4. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Oddly enough, the verse above can also be used to support the other argument about hell being "eternal." The "fire" obviously refers to the second death, and the "withered branches" refer to those who have rejected Christ. So once again this verse proves that all of those who have rejected him, will ultimately be destroyed.

Originally posted by Thundar
I think one would also have to believe that those in hell will be a physically resurrected, to support what you've posted above. I don't think the bible alludes to a physical resurrection of those in hell. I believe it alludes to physical resurrection and life being intended for those who have accepted(or abided in) Christ.

John 15:4-6
4. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Oddly enough, the verse above can also be used to support the other argument about hell being "eternal." The "fire" obviously refers to the second death, and the "withered branches" refer to those who have rejected Christ. So once again this verse proves that all of those who have rejected him, will ultimately be destroyed.

John 5:29

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Acts 24:14-15

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Resurrection is for everyone. What occurs following resurrection is the difference.

edit.

What is it with all these ppl posting porn >?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
What is it with all these ppl posting porn >?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
droolio

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
What is it with all these ppl posting porn >?

Shocking at worst. All I wanted to do was talk about religion, or politics, or the superbowl. 🙁

It was everywhere fear

So I made a thread about it in the OTF 31

Originally posted by Nellinator
I'm glad I missed all this... strange people.

It was all the same...and I agree.

Originally posted by FeceMan
From what I saw, it was all nasty-ass skank porn, anyhow. Not even worth partial arousal.

Originally posted by Regret
This is merely stating that if you follow (abide in) Christ you will produce good fruit, if you do not produce good fruit, you will be pruned out and cast away from Christ. This parable says nothing definitive on physical state of the damned or of the exalted.

You are correct. The original verses are indeed often interpreted as referring to the good works one can do through Christ. But if you look at the scripture a bit more in depth, you can also see that it is alluding to Christ being the giver and taker of life. Those who "abide" in the vine(or Christ), will continue to live in the vine and produce fruit. And those "branches" that do not abide in the vine, will be discarded into the "fire."

Originally posted by Regret
John 5:29

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Acts 24:14-15

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

God will judge all, but I don't believe that the scripture above refers to a "physical resurrection" of those who are in hell. I believe "physical resurrection" is alluded to being given only to those who abide in Christ.

As it is stated in John 5:29, those who are deemed good by him, will be "resurrected of life." And those who have commited evil, will be "ressurrected of damnation." I believe damnation in this context refers to sending those in hell to eternal death, so again I think it would be very illogical for God to "physically" resurrect those who will be thrown into the lake of fire.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Wouldn't you get used to it? I mean, everyone gets used to everything, so why can't we get used to torture? Therefore, if we get used to torture, hell seems to backfire doesn't it?

Quite disturbing stuff.

The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours. You have offended him infinitely more than ever a stubborn rebel did his prince; and yet it is nothing but his hand that holds you from falling into the fire every moment.

And let every one that is yet out of Christ, and hanging over the pit of hell, whether they be old men and women, or middle aged, or young people, or little children, now hearken to the loud calls of God's word and providence.

Twisted stuff including wreathing and churning little children in hell.....

http://www.firstluv.org/edwards.html

Originally posted by Thundar
You are correct. The original verses are indeed often interpreted as referring to the good works one can do through Christ. But if you look at the scripture a bit more in depth, you can also see that it is alluding to Christ being the giver and taker of life. Those who "abide" in the vine(or Christ), will continue to live in the vine and produce fruit. And those "branches" that do not abide in the vine, will be discarded into the "fire."

God will judge all, but I don't believe that the scripture above refers to a "physical resurrection" of those who are in hell. I believe "physical resurrection" is alluded to being given only to those who abide in Christ.

As it is stated in John 5:29, those who are deemed good by him, will be "resurrected of life." And those who have commited evil, will be "ressurrected of damnation." I believe damnation in this context refers to sending those in hell to eternal death, so again I think it would be very illogical for God to "physically" resurrect those who will be thrown into the lake of fire.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Many people get their views of hell from the sermon of Jonathan Edwards "In the hands of an angry god."

Quite disturbing stuff.

The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours. You have offended him infinitely more than ever a stubborn rebel did his prince; and yet it is nothing but his hand that holds you from falling into the fire every moment.

And let every one that is yet out of Christ, and hanging over the pit of hell, whether they be old men and women, or middle aged, or young people, or [B]little children, now hearken to the loud calls of God's word and providence.

Twisted stuff including wreathing and churning little children in hell.....

http://www.firstluv.org/edwards.html [/B]

Edwards interpretation of hell was pretty hard core, but definitely successful in getting its primary message across.

Originally posted by Regret
That is fine as an opinion, but that is all it is, your opinion. Resurrection (anastasin in the original Greek), by definition, is the raising of the dead, physically. Acts 24:15 clearly states that both the just and the unjust will be resurrected.

You're correct it is my opinion, I should have clarified that better in the preceding post. But if you think about it practically, what I stated does seem to be quite logical. If one thinks of Christ as being the "vine" of life, then of course..it wouldn't really make much sense for him to bring back to life those branches that are withered and going to be cast into the fire.

As you have stated above, one also has to take into account the true meanings of the words being used. I must say that I'm not completely familiar with the Greek origin of the word "resurrection", but I do know that from a modern perspective, resurrection can simply be defined as "bringing forth" something. It doesn't necessarily have to mean that one is bringing something back from the dead.

So I think ressurection within this context(as listed in Acts 24:14-15) is referring to "bringing forth" those dead in Christ before him once again, not literally bringing them back into physical bodies.

To me it would seem a bit unloving for God to bring back people to a physical body, just to have such a body destroyed again. This would fall along the lines of torture, and I know torture is something God doesn't do.

So will there be a "ressurrection" of those dead in Christ? Sure. But it probably won't be a "physical" resurrection you and I are accustomed to understanding, particularly since those "resurrected" will be quickly discarded into the flames.

Originally posted by Fatima
Quran said that satan followers will burn in hell ..and god will change their skins each time so that they feel the pain constantly ..

Originally posted by debbiejo
Many people get their views of hell from the sermon of Jonathan Edwards "In the hands of an angry god."

Quite disturbing stuff.

The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours. You have offended him infinitely more than ever a stubborn rebel did his prince; and yet it is nothing but his hand that holds you from falling into the fire every moment.

And let every one that is yet out of Christ, and hanging over the pit of hell, whether they be old men and women, or middle aged, or young people, or [B]little children, now hearken to the loud calls of God's word and providence.

Twisted stuff including wreathing and churning little children in hell.....

http://www.firstluv.org/edwards.html [/B]

Originally posted by Grimm22
If you ask me, the torture in hell is simply being forced to watch you're sins repetitively for eternity

Originally posted by Nellinator
I once heard an excellent sermon by Dr. Trickey that denounced this sermon and I tended to agree. God does not abhor us, he abhors the sin.

Originally posted by erg
Only if it was that simple. One can put up with what they did in the past. If that was the only thing that happened in hell no one would really care to go there.

But having to repeatedly suffer the sins one commited against others, would definitely prove to be an extremely grueling and unbearable affair.