deja vu
there was some guy who wasted my time by telling me to prove that freedom of religion was part of the constitution. when i did i got the reply "no, it doesnt actually say 'freedom of religion' " then he juggled some bowling pins, made a few balloon animals for the kids, jumped in his little tiny car and drove off.
Originally posted by Thundar
*Umm..mr. Urizen..yes he is Love..
Then we all have God inside us, because we all love. Even Atheists are God then.....because Atheists give and feel Love just like we all do.
Originally posted by Thundar
thats what the bible says..
The Bible is proof of nothing, so this statement is mute
Originally posted by Thundar
and righteousnous is a part of Love...
Love does not envy or count faults according to your Bible. So logically, how could vengeance and punishment be a part of Love, if Love keeps no records of right and wrong ?
Originally posted by Thundar
so all those who reject Love..must be punished..or else my god wouldn't be a Loving one..my friend..😉
If Love keeps no record of right and wrong, like the Bible states, then why is thier punishment ? 🤨
Atheists and people of other Faiths do not reject Love, we only reject your concept of God.
Originally posted by PVS
deja vuthere was some guy who wasted my time by telling me to prove that freedom of religion was part of the constitution. when i did i got the reply "no, it doesnt actually say 'freedom of religion' " then he juggled some bowling pins, made a few balloon animals for the kids, jumped in his little tiny car and drove off.
Originally posted by PVS
stfu
yeah, you should both stfu and stay on topic
wait...before you reply, notice the tempation you both have to join up and group bash me rather than discuss the topic. like, have a two way conversation bashing me in the third person...kind of a mutual licking of wounds.
dont do it...that is why you fail.
Okay here we go. Here's the original statment presented:
Originally posted by Thundar
Moving on to the actual argument, please provide an actual biblical verse, which supports the account of Hell being eternal "torture."
Below are your scriptural responses:
Originally posted by PVS
Luke 16:19-31"The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades ... he cried and said 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.'"
No reference to "eternal torture" here. So we can disregard.
Originally posted by PVS
Matthew 13:41, 50"The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practise lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
Same as above.
Originally posted by PVS
Revelation 14:10"If anyone worships the beast ... he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb."
Once again, same as before. No reference is made to "eternal torture."
Originally posted by PVS
Matthew 10:28"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him Who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
Same as above. We can disregard.
Originally posted by PVS
Revelation 19:20, 20:10The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
If a man takes a piece of wood and throws it into the flames, after a while, the flame will completely consume the wood and become extinguished. However, if another decides to add more wood to the man's fire, the more they will continue to agitate and feed the flames.
So who's responsible for the flame continuing to burn?
Answer: The person who continues to feed it the wood.
So it is indeed possible for one to have started the fire, but that doesn't necessarily make one responsible for keeping the fire going. Once the wood ceases to be added to the flames and it ceases in agitating them, then the flame will be extinguished. However, as we both know..some pieces of wood are much more difficult to burn than others.
Originally posted by Thundar
Okay here we go. Here's the original statment presented:Below are your scriptural responses:
No reference to "eternal torture" here. So we can disregard.
Same as above.
Once again, same as before. No reference is made to "eternal torture."
Same as above. We can disregard.
yeah, i already called you on your weak little copout:
Originally posted by PVS
ok, now whats your copout loophole? it doesnt actually say "torture?" but rather "torment"?i know you're intentionally wasting my time. so spill it: whats the punchline?
and furthermore, the bible was not written in english but rather translated to it, and since torture and torment are synonyms, you are wrong and YOU FAIL.
now do your little juggling act, squirt shaky with your novelty flower, make a nice balloon horsey for urizon, and be gone.
k thx
Originally posted by ThundarActually the Bible doesn't speak of everlasting torment as is preached from the pulpit. It uses stories to portray a destruction of ones soul, but not a physical soul, it's the mind and life of a persons emotions. All old cultures spoke in this way to make a point. Word pictures were used and passed all through out history, unfortunately the Bible had some editing.
If a man takes a piece of wood and throws it into the flames, after a while, the flame will completely consume the wood and become extinguished. However, if another decides to add more wood to the man's fire, the more they will continue to agitate and feed the flames.So who's responsible for the flame continuing to burn?
Answer: The person who continues to feed it the wood.
So it is indeed possible for one to have started the fire, but that doesn't necessarily make one responsible for keeping the fire going. Once the wood ceases to be added to the flames and it ceases in agitating them, then the flame will be extinguished. However, as we both know..some pieces of wood are much more difficult to burn than others.
Originally posted by Thundar
If a man takes a piece of wood and throws it into the flames, after a while, the flame will completely consume the wood and become extinguished. However, if another decides to add more wood to the man's fire, the more they will continue to agitate and feed the flames.So who's responsible for the flame continuing to burn?
Answer: The person who continues to feed it the wood.
So it is indeed possible for one to have started the fire, but that doesn't necessarily make one responsible for keeping the fire going. Once the wood ceases to be added to the flames and it ceases in agitating them, then the flame will be extinguished. However, as we both know..some pieces of wood are much more difficult to burn than others.
yeah wood fire blah blah
"And they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
Originally posted by PVS
yeah, you should both stfu and stay on topicwait...before you reply, notice the tempation you both have to join up and group bash me rather than discuss the topic. like, have a two way conversation bashing me in the third person...kind of a mutual licking of wounds.
dont do it...that is why you fail.
Get over yourself , nobody was bashing you
I simply was curious as to why the two of you were spending more time dissin each other rather than discussing the topic. Don't be a hypocrite 👇
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What was the topic?Oh, being tortured permanently in hell.
I think you would get used to it, even get to like it. In time it would be a heaven to you.
If Hell is meant to be eternal torture, then it will be. If Hell is meant to be eternal and unbearable suffering, then it will be unbearable for all eternity.
An all-powerful and cruel God can see to that.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Get over yourself , nobody was bashing youI simply was curious as to why the two of you were spending more time dissin each other rather than discussing the topic. Don't be a hypocrite 👇
If Hell is meant to be eternal torture, then it will be. If Hell is meant to be eternal and unbearable suffering, then it will be unbearable for all eternity.
An all-powerful and cruel God can see to that.
However, forever is a long time, and given enough time anything is possible. Even a planet filled with living beings that were not made by a god.
I agree with you somewhat debbie joe. If you take note from what I posted above, I actually made reference to the flames being "extinguished" at some point. But all of that is really dependant upon when the wood stops being added to the flames.
Take note, that "Hell" itself is never refered to as eternal in scripture, however death is. That being stated, here are some additional scriptures supporting this(which were posted earlier within this thread)
Matthew 7:13
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
John 8:51
Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
Psalm 37:20
"But the wicked shall perish, And the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: They shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away."
Ezekiel 28:17-19
"Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled my sanctuaries by the multitude of thy iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore I will bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt become a terror, and never shalt thou be forever."
So eternal death really seems to be the ultimate punishment for all of those who reject God.