The idea that omniscience precludes free will is based on the idea that the future is unchangeable.
Since God is outside of time--at least, in my opinion--and there in the past, present, and future, events occurring right now could change the future, which would then be known by God (in the future) and thus known by God (in the past). Of course, this leads to freakish loops and why thought experiments can cause headaches.
Originally posted by FeceMan
The idea that omniscience precludes free will is based on the idea that the future is unchangeable.Since God is outside of time--at least, in my opinion--and there in the past, present, and future, events occurring right now could change the future, which would then be known by God (in the future) and thus known by God (in the past). Of course, this leads to freakish loops and why thought experiments can cause headaches.
[list=1][*]Nothing that exists outside of time can be the cause of temporal changes. Therefore, God must exist inside of time in order to act as a causal agent in the world.
[*]According to quantum mechanics, temporal events occur simultaneously in alternate or parallel histories, and sequentially in self-consistent timelines.[/list]
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Nothing that exists outside of time can be the cause of temporal changes. Therefore, God must exist inside of time in order to act as a causal agent in the world.
Based on this answer, I'm assuming that at some point you've existed outside of time to come to this conclusion.
Originally posted by Thundar
But still one has to take into consideration that the definition of time given to us, is a very limited one. Without possessing a complete understanding of time, then none of us are really qualified to say what is possible to do outside of it.
What argument have you been reading? No one is speculating about what is possible for one to do outside of time. The argument is that only things that exist inside of time can be the cause of temporal changes. Hence, for God to be a causal agent in the world, He must exist inside of time. Perhaps you should not post unless you have a clear understanding of what is being discussed.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
What argument have you been reading? No one is speculating about what is possible for one to do outside of time.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Nothing that exists outside of time can be the cause of temporal changes.
Checkmate. And an easy one at that.
I can only assume that by making this current argument so easy to refute, you were of the impression that people reading your most recent post, were unable to use the scroll bar. 😆
Originally posted by Thundar
Checkmate. And an easy one at that.I can only assume that by making this current argument so easy to refute, you were of the impression that people reading your most recent post, were unable to use the scroll bar. 😆
I bet you don't understand what the word temporal means. 😐
Originally posted by Thundar
Checkmate. And an easy one at that.I can only assume that by making this current argument so easy to refute, you were of the impression that people reading your most recent post, were unable to use the scroll bar. 😆
Funnily enough, the argument above can be used to rationalize why one who has limited knowledge and control over time, cannot ascertain what one can do with it.
Let's rephrase the initial argument a bit:
"Adam_Poe has limited knowledge of other's abilities when utilizing the scroll bar, so he doesn't really know what others are capable of when controlling the scroll bar."
Now if we replace "the scroll bar" with "time" and replace "others" with "God" in the statement above, we end up with the following argument:
"Adam_Poe has limited knowledge of God's abilities when utilizing time, so he doesn't really know what God is capable of when controlling time."
Of course I had to change a few additional words a bit, for the sake of subject-verb agreement. Other than that, I believe the words "God" and "time" fit in quite nicely when substituted.
Originally posted by Thundar
But still one has to take into consideration that the definition of time given to us, is a very limited one. Without possessing a complete understanding of time, then none of us are really qualified to say what is possible to do outside of it.
If you argue that we all have limitted understanding of certain concepts, then how do you know that you don't have a limitted, and possibly incorrect, understanding of God and Life ?
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
If you argue that we all have limitted understanding of certain concepts, then how do you know that [b]you don't have a limitted, and possibly incorrect, understanding of God and Life ? [/B]
*holds up arm and waves hand*
I know this on, I know, I know...
*puts arm down once I am call on*
the bible told him/her. 😄
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
If you argue that we all have limitted understanding of certain concepts, then how do you know that [b]you don't have a limitted, and possibly incorrect, understanding of God and Life ? [/B]
WRONGS
IF UR KNOWLEDGE IS LIMITTED..THEN A PERSON who ONLY BELEIFS that THEY CAN UNDERSTAND THINGS WITH THE LIMITTED BELEIFS THAT THEY KNOW.
this does NOT mean PERSON IS SAYING THAT THEY UNDERSTAND GOD WITH THIER LIMITTED KNOWLEDGES. IT just MEANS THEY CAN'T COMPLETEDLY BE sure of what CAN and CANNOT be done by GOD.
[i]BAD TRY[i]
👇
Originally posted by YO_IMURBRO
[b]WRONGSIF UR KNOWLEDGE IS LIMITTED..THEN A PERSON who ONLY BELEIFS that THEY CAN UNDERSTAND THINGS WITH THE LIMITTED BELEIFS THAT THEY KNOW.
this does NOT mean PERSON IS SAYING THAT THEY UNDERSTAND GOD WITH THIER LIMITTED KNOWLEDGES. IT just MEANS THEY CAN'T COMPLETEDLY BE sure of what CAN and CANNOT be done by GOD.
[i]BAD TRY[i]
👇 [/B]
You should read the thread before posting.
Originally posted by YO_IMURBRO
[b]WRONGSIF UR KNOWLEDGE IS LIMITTED..THEN A PERSON who ONLY BELEIFS that THEY CAN UNDERSTAND THINGS WITH THE LIMITTED BELEIFS THAT THEY KNOW.
this does NOT mean PERSON IS SAYING THAT THEY UNDERSTAND GOD WITH THIER LIMITTED KNOWLEDGES. IT just MEANS THEY CAN'T COMPLETEDLY BE sure of what CAN and CANNOT be done by GOD.
[i]BAD TRY[i]
👇 [/B]
Shut up Usagi Yojimbo...next time make a sock that isn't so similiar to your LAST sock, okay ?
Originally posted by YO_IMURBRO
[b]WRONGSIF UR KNOWLEDGE IS LIMITTED..THEN A PERSON who ONLY BELEIFS that THEY CAN UNDERSTAND THINGS WITH THE LIMITTED BELEIFS THAT THEY KNOW.
this does NOT mean PERSON IS SAYING THAT THEY UNDERSTAND GOD WITH THIER LIMITTED KNOWLEDGES. IT just MEANS THEY CAN'T COMPLETEDLY BE sure of what CAN and CANNOT be done by GOD.
[i]BAD TRY[i]
👇 [/B]
Why does KMC let retarded people into the religion forum?
How can you be sure that you cannot be sure of God's abilities to infulence your belief about his abilities. Based on your arguments no argument of any sort can ever be made due to theoretical abilities you are ascribing to God. (ask me if you need the big words traslated for you)
In a forum for discussion it is always assumed that a discussion is possible otherwise it would not exist.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
[list=1][*]Nothing that exists outside of time can be the cause of temporal changes. Therefore, God must exist inside of time in order to act as a causal agent in the world.[*]According to quantum mechanics, temporal events occur simultaneously in alternate or parallel histories, and sequentially in self-consistent timelines.[/list]
kk