Pre-retcon Beyonder v.s. The Brothers (pre-retcon)

Originally posted by Utrigita
Your own words from these words I read that beyonder is infact beyond the Marvel Universe and DC according to these but that isn't possible since The brothers was the sume of EVERYTHING,

No it is NOT impossible,

Beyonder was everything outside the Multiverse between May 1984 and Nov. 1986.

the Brothers did NOT Exist until the 1997 publication, of DC vs Marvel.

A couple of Months later in 1997 Adventures of the X-Men came out, and your Brothers went from the TOAA and the Presence, to TWO Megaverses in the Living Tribunal's hand, to do with as he wished.

"Two SIBLINGS whom the Tribunal has a place for in his great scheme of things"

Originally posted by Utrigita
now you are saying that you have never said anything about beyonder being beyond the marvel but with you continuing to post the exact same scan then i am sure i am right,

Why would I say Beyonder is not from beyond the Multiverse, if I been arguing that he is for the longest?

Where did you see me say that?

Originally posted by Utrigita
And if I may say again the Brothers was meant to be TOAA and The Presence from the Marvel and DC. You say these isn't canon

That's nice.

The Brothers were published WAY after the Beyonder had been Retconned.

So what's your point friend?

And it's still NOT Canon.

Dude, those issues were voted on by FANS to determine the winners.

Originally posted by Utrigita
but nowhere have i found anything that implicates that Secret Wars II was meant to be canon, I have explain to you why it was writtend, and why marvel decided to change the universe.

Secret Wars was not Canon.

Interesting, yet it's mentioned all over the 2006 Bios.

Where do you think Spiderman's Black suit came from?

Which lead to Venom and Carnage.

Black costumed Spider Woman?

Titania?

Volcana?

First time we see Ben Grimm after becoming the Thing.

Molecule Man learns he can control Organic Molecules.

Pre-retcon Beyonder erased Death from the Multiverse, and it was counted as a POST-Retcon FEAT and it's CANON.

Death is ERASED across The Entire Multiverse

excerpt from Official Hanbook of the Marvelk Universe v5 (2006)

So much for Secret Wars not being Canon.

Evidently Secret Wars IS very much CANON.

Originally posted by Mr Master
No it is NOT impossible,

Beyonder was everything outside the Multiverse between May 1984 and Nov. 1986.

the Brothers did NOT Exist until the 1997 publication, of DC vs Marvel.

A couple of Months later in 1997 Adventures of the X-Men came out, and your Brothers went from the TOAA and the Presence, to TWO Megaverses in the Living Tribunal's hand, to do with as he wished.

"Two SIBLINGS whom the Tribunal has a place for in his great scheme of things"

For the purposes of this thread, that scan doesn't mean much.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Evidently Secret Wars IS very much CANON.

Originally posted by Mr Master
So much for Secret Wars not being Canon.

Evidently Secret Wars IS very much CANON.

Of course Secret Wars is canon. edited for lack of cruelty. However parts of it have been retconned. This alludes to the state of flux the Marvel Universe is in according to Marvel.

🙂

Originally posted by Galan007
This scan was from after the Brothers were "retconned"...

Yes I WROTE that around the Scan.

I didn't write how long the Brothers lasted before they were Retconned, 4 Months.

Originally posted by Galan007
For the purposes of this thread, that scan doesn't mean much.

I'm having a conversation with that dude, and this scan is very meaningful.

Read what I wrote around the scan buddy. 🙄

Originally posted by Galan007
It has to be canon, otherwise how could Marvel have kept Spidey's symbiote suit for all this time? 😂

😎

Originally posted by Mr Master
I'm having a conversation with that dude, and this scan is very meaningful.

Read what I wrote around the scan buddy. 🙄

I just didn't want anyone to misconstrue that scan, and get the false idea the LT>The Brothers (pre-ret).

Originally posted by Galan007
Your argument is with him not me, there's no need to get hostile....................... buddy. 😛

I just didn't want anyone to misconstrue that scan, and get the false idea the LT>The Brothers (pre-ret).

Well if they Read instead of just entertain their eyes with pretty visuals, they'll know. 😉

On the other hand, they probably have no idea what we're saying now

(waiting for those pretty little pictures) 😛 😂

Originally posted by Mr Master
Well if they Read instead of just entertain their eyes with pretty visuals, they'll know. 😉

On the other hand, they probably have no idea what we're saying now

(waiting for those pretty little pictures) 😛 😂

why is this thread still going beyonder would win.

Originally posted by Mider999
why is this thread still going beyonder would win.

which beyonder

Wasn't the pre-retcon Beyonder basically an avatar for the writers? If so, the Bros stand no chance.

Originally posted by Mr Master
No it is NOT impossible,

Beyonder was everything outside the Multiverse between May 1984 and Nov. 1986.

the Brothers did NOT Exist until the 1997 publication, of DC vs Marvel.

A couple of Months later in 1997 Adventures of the X-Men came out, and your Brothers went from the TOAA and the Presence, to TWO Megaverses in the Living Tribunal's hand, to do with as he wished.

I'm sorry I didn't read every post here.
But Mr. Master, how do you know the New Universe didn't exist prior to 1986? Is it because it wasn't introduce before 1986? If that is the case then using the same logic Beyonder didn't exist before he was introduced either. Same is with Galactus. I guess Galactus isn't old as the 616 universe after all.
Please answer the following questions:

Do you believe now (2007) that the Beyonder's realm is inside the Marvel Multiverse (which includes the new universe)?

If so, would that then make him under the jurisdiction of the Brothers now ?

Originally posted by Mindship
Wasn't the pre-retcon Beyonder basically an avatar for the writers? If so, the Bros stand no chance.

Originally posted by Mindship
Wasn't the pre-retcon Beyonder basically an avatar for the writers? If so, the Bros stand no chance.

The writers of MArvel perhaps. The brothers were both sets of writers Marvel and DC "You have done well". 🙂

Bigger scope it's that easy.

🙂

The Brothers before the retcon are not only the most powerful comic characters, but probably the most powerful fictional characters in creation.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
The Brothers before the retcon are not only the most powerful comic characters, but probably the most powerful fictional characters in creation.

The Brothers "encompassed the whole of Reality", in BOTH Marvel and DC:

I'm sorry, but there is nothing to suggest that Beyonder could have beaten TOAA/God from Marvel & DC.

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Since this is the Brothers before the retcon it doesnt matter.

"Before the Retcon?"

The "Brothers" only lasted 4 MONTHS in thier existence as supposed embodiments of DC & Marvel.

October 1996, Marvel Comics vs DC is published.

February 1997, Adventures of the X-Men (relevent issues of the series) is published.

Interestingly enough though, they could NOT have been the embodiments of Marvel and DC even for the 4 Months.

Because at the end of #03 Marvel vs DC published on November 30, 1996, the Brothers MERGE and become ONE Universe, (the Almagam Universe)

What the heck happened to the Marvel Omniverse and DC Reality,

If these "Brothers" went on to become a SINGLE Universe that has NOTHING to do with the Marvel or DC Continuity? 😕

See how this non Canon Company Crossover ends up being garbage?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
If your claim isn't that so the Beyonder in the Secret Wars was more powerful than TOAA, yet TOAA and the Presence.

Come again?

Originally posted by h1a8
But Mr. Master, how do you know the New Universe didn't exist prior to 1986? Is it because it wasn't introduce before 1986?

Correct.

New Universe #01 (FIRST ever publication)

November 1986

Originally posted by h1a8
If that is the case then using the same logic Beyonder didn't exist before he was introduced either. Same is with Galactus.

Obviously.

Originally posted by h1a8
I guess Galactus isn't old as the 616 universe after all.

dontgetit

Originally posted by h1a8
Do you believe now (2007) that the Beyonder's realm is inside the Marvel Multiverse (which includes the new universe)?

Yes.

Originally posted by h1a8
If so, would that then make him under the jurisdiction of the Brothers [B]now ? [/B]

First off,

the Brothers are NOT the Law of the Omniverse, the Brothers now are just TWO Megaverses within the Marvel Omniverse.

SO the Beyonder is NOT under their jurisdiction, though the Brothers are FAR MORE Powerful than POST-Retcon Beyonder.

POST-Retcon Beyonder is under the jurisdiction of the Living Tribunal and other significant Cosmics such as Eternity and Roma.

Beyonder is at Abstract levels now in terms of Power, but below Eternity (single Universe)

POST-Retcon Beyonder is Essential to the Multiverse though:

"to rend the Life Force of such a being as the Beyonder"

"Havoc unthinkable would be wrecked across Multiversal Cosmography"

Originally posted by Galan007
👆

The Brothers "encompassed the whole of Reality", in BOTH Marvel and DC:

I'm sorry, but there is nothing to suggest that Beyonder could have beaten TOAA/God from Marvel & DC.

i agree. and yes there is some discrepency, but the brothers were 2 companies ideas of 'near supreme entities'. initially, they were meant to be the greatest/most powerful beings ever created by the companies, imo.

Originally posted by h1a8
I'm sorry I didn't read every post here.
But Mr. Master, how do you know the New Universe didn't exist prior to 1986? Is it because it wasn't introduce before 1986? If that is the case then using the same logic Beyonder didn't exist before he was introduced either. Same is with Galactus. I guess Galactus isn't old as the 616 universe after all.

Precisely ✅

The logic is flawed. 😉

Pre retcon Beyonder was NEVER all that existed outside the marvel multiverse. He himself stated he was a universe from outside. The Handbooks stated he just composed an other dimensional universe and the fact that the New Universe was introduced PRE RETCON settles it.

Good post H1 😉