About Bane's physical strength:
1. He was a physical powerhouse, described as a 'mountain of muscle', and the revised edition of the EGtC lists his height as 1.9 metres. He had been born and bred working on the mines, his life consisted of pretty much hours of constant hammering on hard cortosis every single day, and he had a terrible temper which lead to a lot of fights.
2. Bane was no stranger to augmenting his physical attributes with the force, he was taught to enhance his pain threshold as well as make himself physically stronger pretty much as soon as he joined the academy, and by BotS, he became incredibly strong in the force, so he'd likely be able to do this to incredible effect.
3. Bane's orbalisk armour constantly pumps him with adrenaline, constantly strengthens his muscles and keeps them hardened, and constantly injects him with dark side energies, that fill him with strength and fury, and allows him to release the energies to channel his strength and speed.
What's so great about Shimrra's physical strength that puts him above Bane in that department?
You're kidding, right? An average Vong-hell, a LESS than average Vong if Nom Anor's any description- carries physical strength of over twice a well built human. Shimrra is, what, ten times stronger than Nom? Shimrra's been bioteched to hell and back to make him the perfect physical specimen of the warrior race.
If you think Bane is stronger physically than Shimrra, than quite frankly, there's really no going back for you
Originally posted by Faunus
I'll let you finish this.Having killed three of his assailants, he was facing only one opponent, but his energy was beginning to flag. It was not fatigue born of fear of going to the dark side, but simple exhaustion, and Shimrra was moving in.
After having been battered and slashed by the slayers, too.
He's actually under the eight-foot mark, but okay. No one's denying that he's strong, but that doesn't mean he can just overpower anyone he fights.
WTF are you talking about? A 500-pound boulder sent hurtling through the air would snap Shimrra's amphistaff like a twig.
His "lightsaber resistant armor" lost him his head. Nice. He's hardly untouchable, despite what you would like to think, and physical strength is almost never a deciding factor between SW duelists. Likewise, I could say that Bane has -actual- saber-resistant armor, is probably untouchable to Bane due to his speed, and isn't a slouch in the strength department himself.
Yeah, bull. It's something of a contest, and ends with Bane taking Shimrra's head off and playing with it.
Originally posted by zephiel7
I suppose Yoda is going to get owned by Vader because the latter has greater physical strength? Your joking, right?Anyways, I would argue whether Shimrra even possessed as much physical strength as Bane.
That doesn't stop the fact that he was tired as hell, and he was fighting the Vong who killed his nephew (Am I right?) He'd be fighting hard enough to control the darkside from taking over, not to mention all his fatigue.
Either way we can't judge much from Shimrra nearly winning against a tired Luke.
Dess is seven feet tall, and pure muscle. He has the force to augment his strength in conjunction with several orbalisks injecting him with adrenaline and strength. His armour supplies him with amazing regenerative capabilities, covers nearly all known parts of his body, and is capable of healing deep wounds instantaneously.
He could rip the ground underneath Shimrra's feet. He has several indirect methods to disorient his foe.
And dude, a tree falling on Shimrra is really going to hurt, no matter how you look at it.
Heh, I would say the same with Bane. He is almost untouchable to Shimrra. Plus he has the force to augment his strength and speed, and the added strength supplied by his armour. Add in regenerative capabilities and Bane has it in the bag.
Indeed.
Allfg (for some reason, by the way, I'm getting a strong Noobaris hit from you), I saw your three points posted above, and I have to say that the first one had me in hysterics, no exaggeration. Bane's a big guy. Yup, that makes him strong compared to other humans, but compared to a Vong - let alone Shimrra?
I must have mistaken what you were trying to get across, because it sounded like you were trying to insinuate that simply because Bane's a big guy means that Shimrra would have problems with him.
That's not the case.
Bane's natural strength is pathetic compared to someone of Shimrra's strength. Regular Bane vs. Shimmra? Bane would not put up even a semblance of a fight. Shimmra would literally wipe his ass with him.
I just wanted to point that out because it seemed to me that you were implying that Bane's natural strength is impressive compared to Shimrra's - or any other Vong for that matter. And that line of thought borders on insantiy and flat-out delusion.
Allfg (for some reason, by the way, I'm getting a strong Noobaris hit from you), I saw your three points posted above, and I have to say that the first one had me in hysterics, no exaggeration. Bane's a big guy. Yup, that makes him strong compared to other humans, but compared to a Vong - let alone Shimrra?I must have mistaken what you were trying to get across, because it sounded like you were trying to insinuate that simply because Bane's a big guy means that Shimrra would have problems with him.
That's not the case.
Maybe you should get your eyesight checkout out, because you must have missed the "He was a physical powerhouse, described as a 'mountain of muscle'" and the "He had been born and bred working on the mines, his life consisted of pretty much hours of constant hammering on hard cortosis every single day". And what's really hilarious is that you actually got hysterics out of that.
Bane's natural strength is pathetic compared to someone of Shimrra's strength. Regular Bane vs. Shimmra? Bane would not put up even a semblance of a fight. Shimmra would literally wipe his ass with him.I just wanted to point that out because it seemed to me that you were implying that Bane's natural strength is impressive compared to Shimrra's - or any other Vong for that matter. And that line of thought borders on insantiy and flat-out delusion.
Now this is what happens when you take my points out of context, and ignore how they form together in the bigger picture. Did you happen to miss points 2 and 3?
So he was a physical powerhouse, big deal! The strongest human is nothing to a stron g Yuuzhan Vong. A race of the warrior caste that exists for nothing greater than to fight and fight and die. You think working in the mines is any comparison to a Yuuzhan Vong? A natural miner or soldier would be and have been snapped in half by Shimrra.
What Shimrra needs to do, quite simply, is grab Bane's head and squeeze...hell, Shimrra has weapons Bane is incapable of sensing that he can use right off, his bare hands are literally carnivorous beasts...
Maybe you should get your eyesight checkout out, because you must have missed the "He was a physical powerhouse, described as a 'mountain of muscle'" and the "He had been born and bred working on the mines, his life consisted of pretty much hours of constant hammering on hard cortosis every single day". And what's really hilarious is that you actually got hysterics out of that.
...and that still puts him where compared to someone like Shimrra? I'll take "nowhere" for 200, Alex. I understand, Noobaris, that your love for Bane dictates the very way you live your life, but please. We're not going to consign ourselves to your bullshit logic. Shimrra would curbstomp this "mountain of muscle" that you jerk off too every night.
Now this is what happens when you take my points out of context, and ignore how they form together in the bigger picture. Did you happen to miss points 2 and 3?
Wow. Maybe in between creating multiple sock accounts, you ought to have your eyes checked. I didn't ignore your other points. Hence why I addressed one and nicely pointed out that a regular Bane ("mountain of muscle" he may be) would be crushed by Shimrra.
Again, what's stopping Bane from moving faster than Shimrra can see/react to, cutting through the field nerve cables of his Vonduun Crab Armour thereby negating the entire armour, and slicing him in half? Unless you want to argue that Shimrra's reflexes are far above that of well trained force users..
PRobably because Shimrra is incredibly fast and Bane doesn't know a thing about any nerve cables? Shimrra's reflexes are quite a bit faster than Jacen Solo, whom he smacked aside like an insect and deflected a saber throw from.
Again, we're talking about someone who was feared for his prowess in combat among a warrior race when he was 7
Than you know absolutely nothing of the Vong or the NJO, so don't argue from a platform of ignorance.
No, I am looking at the evidence you are providing, and can judge that you have no real logical reason for coming to the conclusions that you do.
Shimrra is well over two meters tall,
Am I supposed to be impressed here? Does this contribute to your argument at all?
the strongest of a race where politicians are stronger than humans
So what? Bane could hardly be considered human after what the Orbalisks have done to him. Especially after you know adrenaline and strength are constantly pumping into his system. Not to mention he has the force in conjunction augmenting his physical attributes.
No, you're not right. Luke was tired, but overly so?
Having killed three of his assailants, he was facing only one opponent, but his energy was beginning to flag. It was not fatigue born of fear of going to the dark side, but simple exhaustion, and Shimrra was moving in.
Luke clearly states that he is exhausted. His energy was beginning to flag.
He was extremely tired. You are being ridiculous in trying to establish that Shimrra will triumph against Bane just because he nearly defeated a tired Luke. That’s hardly conclusive evidence.
In the case of an opponent where force pre-cog doesn’t work, I would wager that Bane has an even greater advantage with his armour than Luke does.
You could count on the fingers of one hand people in SW who could do that.
I can count a lot more people who can nearly defeat Luke when he is exhausted.
things constantly injecting him with strength and stamina?Welcome to the average Vong warrior!
What is it that continuously pumps Shimrra with adrenaline and strength? Can you provide any proof instead of babbling, L.S?
Armor protects him from most anything? Hello there, vonduun crab! So...Shimrra has almost all that going for him, and then some. Wow
Oh, lets forget the fact that Bane can also use the force along with all this extra adrenaline and strength to augment his physical prowess. Alone he could probably lift a small truck and throw it a meter. With the force, his strength just becomes that much greater. Not to mention his speed becomes amplified as well.
And again with this ridiculous assertion. Proof of Bane ever doing so in a battle.
You know Lightsnake, it isn’t too difficult to come to the conclusion that someone who could rip apart the foundations of the Great Rakatan temple even after being exhausted from a long lightsaber duel and falling down a massive set of stairs, can also tear open a small portion of the ground if he so wished. Considering Bane became stronger after discovering the Orbalisks and meditating on Dxun... the battle isn’t looking to good for dear old Shimmy.
Wow, Shimrra could throw a razor bug that Bane can't sense, that'll rip through his face. Fight over.
Right because Bane can’t just drop a tons worth of trees , smashing Shimrra lke a bug? Or even better, Bane can dodge it with his speed. ZOMGWTF?!
And Shimrra tossing a blast bug at Bane'll kill him,
Ridiculous. You are assuming that the blast bug is going to A) Hit him, when he can simply dodge it with his augmented adrenaline enhanced- force speed, B)The thing will actually penetrate his armour which could repel lightsaber blows, and C) actually wound him when he regenerated from a deep wound instantaneously.
no matter how you look at him. Oh, and is Shimrra going to stand gawking at the tree?
No, but, while he reacts, Bane can lunge in and with his superiour strength and speed, he can easily take down Shimrra.
Ok, I'm dealing with someone who hasn't even read the NJO and it's getting old. Read my above posts, read the NJO and learn a bit aside from PoD
I know enough of Shimrra’s abilities. If you are so eager to prove that Shimrra wins, list whatever abilities that he has that would “presumably” pose a threat to Bane and I will gladly dismantle it. If you want to try and convince me, you are going to have to bring in more proof.
I am not seeing how a Sith lord with two power sources augmenting his physical strength and speed to ridiculous levels is going down. The same guy who has an armour that can resist lightsabers and provide regeneration enough to heal deep wounds instantaneously?
It’s too bad because the only evidence that you have is that Shimrra nearly defeated an exhausted Luke. What a laugh buddy. Submit fool to the power of the darkside! You can be my apprentice.
Wow, you can modify my quotes! You're so clever and witty!
You asked for it. 😛
I really don't understand this whole orbalisks concept. As I've explained to Noobaris it makes little sense. For one, certain parts of BOTS have been retconned by POD and are N-Canon. This includes Nadd's holocron. Now, if there is no Nadd Holocron, then there is no traveling to DXUN, for he would have had no reason. If he didn't travel to DXUN, he didn't pool any bullshit moon out of orbit, nor have these orbalisks as you call them. If you used common sense you'd understand that most of what you're arguing for in terms of Bane, really was retconned and shouldn't even be part of a debate.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I really don't understand this whole orbalisks concept. As I've explained to Noobaris it makes little sense. For one, certain parts of BOTS have been retconned by POD and are N-Canon. This includes Nadd's holocron. Now, if there is no Nadd Holocron, then there is no traveling to DXUN, for he would have had no reason. If he didn't travel to DXUN, he didn't pool any bullshit moon out of orbit, nor have these orbalisks as you call them. If you used common sense you'd understand that most of what you're arguing for in terms of Bane, really was retconned and shouldn't even be part of a debate.
Not at all. The orbalisks are canon, in fact a publication of LOTF references to a point where Krayt was contacting Bane's spirit. He was seaking mastery over the Vong armour to the degree that Bane had mastered his control over the orbalisks.
Originally posted by zephiel7
No, I am looking at the evidence you are providing, and can judge that you have no real logical reason for coming to the conclusions that you do.
Am I supposed to be impressed here? Does this contribute to your argument at all?
So what? Bane could hardly be considered human after what the Orbalisks have done to him. Especially after you know adrenaline and strength are constantly pumping into his system. Not to mention he has the force in conjunction augmenting his physical attributes.
Having killed three of his assailants, he was facing only one opponent, but his energy was beginning to flag. It was not fatigue born of fear of going to the dark side, but simple exhaustion, and Shimrra was moving in.Luke clearly states that he is exhausted. His energy was beginning to flag.
He was extremely tired. You are being ridiculous in trying to establish that Shimrra will triumph against Bane just because he nearly defeated a tired Luke. That’s hardly conclusive evidence.
In the case of an opponent where force pre-cog doesn’t work, I would wager that Bane has an even greater advantage with his armour than Luke does.
I can count a lot more people who can nearly defeat Luke when he is exhausted.
What is it that continuously pumps Shimrra with adrenaline and strength. Can you provide any proof instead of babbling L.S?
Oh, lets forget the fact that Bane can also use the force [b]along with all this extra adrenaline and strength to augment his physical prowess. Alone he could probably lift a small truck and throw it a meter. With the force, his strength just becomes that much greater. Not to mention his speed becomes amplified as well.
You know Lightsnake, it isn’t too difficult to come to the conclusion that someone who could rip apart the foundations of the Great Rakatan temple even after being exhausted form a long lightsaber duel and falling down a massive stair, can also tear open a small portion of the ground if he so wished. Considering Bane became stronger after discovering the Orbalisks and meditating on Dxun... the battle isn’t looking to good for dear old Shimmy.
Right because Bane can’t just drop a ton’s worth of trees , smashing Shimrra lke a bug? Or even better, Bane can dodge it with his speed. ZOMGWTF?!
Ridiculous. You are assuming that the blast bug is going to A) Hit him, when he can simply dodge with his augmented adrenaline enhanced- force speed, B) The thing will actually penetrate his armour which could repel lightsaber blows, and C) actually wound him when he regenerated from a deep wound instantaneously.
No, but, while he reacts, Bane can lunge in and with his superiour strength and speed, he can easily take down Shimrra.
[qutoe]
Ok, I'm dealing with someone who hasn't even read the NJO and it's getting old. Read my above posts, read the NJO and learn a bit aside from PoD
I know enough of Shimrra’s abilities. If you are so eager to prove that Shimrra wins, list whatever abilities that he has that would “presumably” pose a threat to Bane and I will gladly dismantle it. If you want to try and convince me, you are going to have to bring in proof. [/Quote]
You think you know enough. You always think a lot. 'Gladly' dismantle it?
Ok, 1: Shimrra was feared among the Vong race for his abilities at 7.
2. The average Vong is so fast he has deflected a dagger in midair, thrown by one of the best assassins in the galaxy, killed him and whirled to face two Jedi....oh, the dagger hit thr ground a few seconds later
3. Shimrra is far stronger than Bane, get the **** over it. bane without the orbalisks isn't even as strong as an average Vong warrior and since you have no proof of Bane evr using the force to augment his strength....oh, and Shimrra's speed and power? He can deflect a lightsaber throw with his hand. Without even looking at it.
I am not seeing how a Sith lord with two power sources augmenting his physical strength and speed to ridiculous levels is going down. The same guy who has an armour that can resist lightsabers and provide regeneration enough to heal deep wounds instantaneously.
It’s too bad because the only evidence that you have is that Shimrra nearly defeated an exhausted Luke. What a laugh buddy. Submit fool to the power of the darkside! You can be my apprentice.
What do you have? Idiot asusmptions of Bane doing things he's never done before. right
You're asking for a lot, but I'm settling for finishing this debate.
You asked for it. 😛 [/B]
Until you get your head out of Bane's ass, you'll never be half as good a debator as you think you are. Just get over it, zephiel, you use the worst circular logic. "But Bane is superior in strength and speed!"
*detailed list of how fast Vong can move and their strength*
Zephiel: But Bane has the orbalisks! and they increase his strength and speed! And like um...he's superior!
Logical fallacy, buddy. Textbook example. YOu prove up or shut up and I'm calling you on this.
Given what Shimrra did to Jacen, Zephiel, pardon me if I don't subscribe to the notion that Bane is going to remotely "pwn" Shimrra. As we know, Jacen's power in the Force far exceeds Bane's own - and he was very, very powerful as of the Unifying Force - and yet Shimrra dealt with him as if he were not a threat at all.
Sorry. A super-energetic Bane won't have equal strength to Shimrra.
Even if Bane could dodge the bugs coming out him, without precog, they'd miss and fly back to kill him. Shimrra could just throw a handful and watch Bane try to defend himself. If he lives, it won't be for long. He's got zero experience against Vong (and we saw what happened when Bane fought Kas'im when Kas'im had two lightsabers), can't use force powers, and is physically outmatched.