Emma Frost Respect Thread

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
True there's also that Xorn incident from Morrisons Annual. I listed it under psychometry early in this thread but now that she states that she doesn't have it I have to wonder what to call it? Telepathic Osmosis? I know Ellis read this issue because he referenced it in Astonishing X-Men #25.

Osmosis would be good thing...since that seems how they decided to call that Emma's power recently and she denied on panel that it was actual psychometry akin to that Adrienne had. But osmosis\latent thought patterns were reffered more than once...

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
I've posted analysis of that here as a part of question- "does Emma have psychometry?" That may pretty well be the first mentioning of "osmosis" which Emma uses instead of actual psychometry which she doesn't have.

As for Karma "sparring" that's not a low showing as Karma has beaten Shadow King in astral duel and posessed Sage effortlessly.
As shown even here:

On the Shadow King note, it should be mentioned that the SK had only a small fraction of his power at the time Karma beat him. He was nowhere near full power.

As far as Sage goes, it wasn't until X-Treme X-Men that Sage became a formidable foe against telepathy. Karma is not in the big leagues by any stretch of the imagination.

Originally posted by Rutog98
On the Shadow King note, it should be mentioned that the SK had only a small fraction of his power at the time Karma beat him. He was nowhere near full power.

As far as Sage goes, it wasn't until X-Treme X-Men that Sage became a formidable foe against telepathy. Karma is not in the big leagues by any stretch of the imagination.

I actually agree with the Sage thing, in X-treme X-Men Tessa made her will indominable/set up some psionic shield at the expense of her telepathy which made her immune to telepathy. However even you have to admit that Sage was no slouch in telepathy back then I wouldn't place her as World Class but she's definitely higher then Butterfly Psylocke, and Sages will is up there with the likes of Storm and Xavier. Karma would have to have still been pretty powerful to easily overwelm a mind like Tessa's.

As for the Shadow King thing, while I agree that he was comparatively weak, Karma was also weakened, in fact her Astral Form was much weaker then his. Which again proves that she is no slouch when it comes to her psionic power. In any case she hurt him quite badly and then scared him off by bringing up Xavier's name.

New Mutants v1 #34

It's good that it's noted though so kudos.

Regardless though, Emma pretty much schooled her on the previous page so...it's still a decent feat.

BTW Charlotte the Skrull Mind Wall have 3 Cerebra-like machines and are causing a GLOBAL psychic blackout, I'll post the scans when the issue comes out. Emma's going to fight against it by herself according to solicits.

I'm going to wait till Legacy #216 to post the #215 scans in their full context.

And Emma's Handbook bio was updated to 3 pages as well as her power grid. I still haven't got my hands on it yet.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak

I actually agree with the Sage thing, in X-treme X-Men Tessa made her will indominable/set up some psionic shield at the expense of her telepathy which made her immune to telepathy. However even you have to admit that Sage was no slouch in telepathy back then I wouldn't place her as World Class but she's definitely higher then Butterfly Psylocke, and Sages will is up there with the likes of Storm and Xavier. Karma would have to have still been pretty powerful to easily overwelm a mind like Tessa's.

As for the Shadow King thing, while I agree that he was comparatively weak, Karma was also weakened, in fact her Astral Form was much weaker then his. Which again proves that she is no slouch when it comes to her psionic power. In any case she hurt him quite badly and then scared him off by bringing up Xavier's name.

[b]New Mutants v1 #34

It's good that it's noted though so kudos.

Regardless though, Emma pretty much schooled her on the previous page so...it's still a decent feat.

BTW Charlotte the Skrull Mind Wall have 3 Cerebra-like machines and are causing a GLOBAL psychic blackout, I'll post the scans when the issue comes out. Emma's going to fight against it by herself according to solicits.

I'm going to wait till Legacy #216 to post the #215 scans in their full context.

And Emma's Handbook bio was updated to 3 pages as well as her power grid. I still haven't got my hands on it yet. [/B]

Crap I mixed up the order of the scans...the last two are the first two.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
[/center]

I actually agree with the Sage thing, in X-treme X-Men Tessa made her will indominable/set up some psionic shield at the expense of her telepathy which made her immune to telepathy. However even you have to admit that Sage was no slouch in telepathy back then I wouldn't place her as World Class but she's definitely higher then Butterfly Psylocke, and Sages will is up there with the likes of Storm and Xavier. Karma would have to have still been pretty powerful to easily overwelm a mind like Tessa's.

As for the Shadow King thing, while I agree that he was comparatively weak, Karma was also weakened, in fact her Astral Form was much weaker then his. Which again proves that she is no slouch when it comes to her psionic power. In any case she hurt him quite badly and then scared him off by bringing up Xavier's name.

[b]New Mutants v1 #34

It's good that it's noted though so kudos.

Regardless though, Emma pretty much schooled her on the previous page so...it's still a decent feat.

BTW Charlotte the Skrull Mind Wall have 3 Cerebra-like machines and are causing a GLOBAL psychic blackout, I'll post the scans when the issue comes out. Emma's going to fight against it by herself according to solicits.

I'm going to wait till Legacy #216 to post the #215 scans in their full context.

And Emma's Handbook bio was updated to 3 pages as well as her power grid. I still haven't got my hands on it yet. [/B]

As for handbook- me too. And since I receive things like that handbook via proxy from Moscow...I won't be surprised you'll be the first to get the scans among us.

Someone should definitely reorganize this thread

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Not much of a myth... more of analysis

[B]Emma Frost's diamond form- inconsistencies

The basic properties of diamond form mutation of Emma Frost are being superhard, dispersing psionc energy providing immunity to TP yet being unable to access her TP.
http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitledscanned09oo2pj4.jpg
Indestructable according to Danger's sensors
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=8848640
Emotions are nulled and no telepathy
http://img340.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xmenphoenixwarsong3014hr6.jpg
Immune to TP
http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p23ui1.jpg
Her full diamond form is solid diamond, no blood when gets shattered

However there were some inconsistencies about that form- like Emma being harmed by No-Girl's TP or Xavier's psychic backlash in it, being able to access TP in her diamond form or bleeding in it.
(New) X-Men #119
Emma has pain receptors turned off in diamond form, yet bleeds normal blood and gets stunned by No-Girl's TP (which gets easily blocked when Emma turns back in human form)

Academy X #27
Emma while in diamond form gets stabbed by vibranium knife and bleeds.

(In Uncanny X-Men 499 vibranium knives in hands of superstrong person (Warpath) do nothing to her:
http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uncannyxmen499002zn4.jpg
http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uncannyxmen499003ot0.jpg )
Giant-sized Astonishing X-Men
Emma communicates telepathically while beating aliens in her diamond form

However, it turns out that it's not writers' inconsistency to blame and that variation of showing can easily be explained. The answer lies in Emma's "daughters"'s mutation- Stepford Cuckoos are able to turn in diamond form partially, retaining access to TP while having a part of their body diamond.
They turn thir hearts permanently diamondd to seal the Phoenix- that leaves them emotionless.
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1011914_img021/
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1010963_img022/
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1011692_img023/

In fact, Emma has been shown turning only parts of her body diamond on panel:
http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uncanny495dcp00025jj7.jpg
Uncanny X-Men 495. Eyes are diamond while the rest of the body is flesh. That doesn't prevent her from TP communication.
In fact, that explains perfectly what happens in scans from Academy X 27 and (New) X-Men #119- only Emma's skin gets turned diamond, that's why despite having pain receptors and emotions nulled (see scans with Cuckoos), she still has flesh inside that diamond hide and organic brain- that's why she bleeds here. The scan from Giant-sized AXM shows that with practice she learned how to communicate in that form, though apparently her TP is weaker in partially transformed state and it's hard for her to use it much(her feats in that "controversal" state are barely communication, and nothing more).

In fact, the idea of Emma and Cuckoos having more precise control over their diamond forms was first brought up when they planned to include Emma in X3 movie. Here's the design of Emma by Michael Turner developed for the movie:
[/B]

Brought here from the Mythbusters' thread.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak

And Emma's Handbook bio was updated to 3 pages as well as her power grid. I still haven't got my hands on it yet.[/center]

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Her new handbook bio states she can lift 2 tons in her diamond form.

That's accurate number, really- she can hit pretty hard, though, but her lifting strength is much lower than her force of hits. Emma never was a heavy lifter.
Force of hits and lifting strength are two differet things. Emma has low degree of superstrength, but her force of hits is pretty impressive due to diamond being superhard stuff.
Previous handbook bio had error in it, putting Emma's lifting strenght in class 50. So I'm glad they've corrected the mistakes.

And from X-Men Secret Invasion #1 it seems that Emma has improved her h2h skills pretty much, so she can exploit all the advantages of superhard diamond fists.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
Her new handbook bio states she can lift 2 tons in her diamond form.

Cool, any way you can scan the 3 pages for us? Pretty please? 😛

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Cool, any way you can scan the 3 pages for us? Pretty please? 😛

Co-sign...snoopdog, do us a favour. BTW, Exodus darling, how do you like my analysis covering the inconsistencies of diamond form? I think we've found pretty logical explanation of them🙂

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
Co-sign...snoopdog, do us a favour. BTW, Exodus darling, how do you like my analysis covering the inconsistencies of diamond form? I think we've found pretty logical explanation of them🙂

Makes sense, although I'd probably add that Emma in New X-Men #119 was hit in human form first and then transformed into Diamond so her blood changed into"Diamond" during the transformation. As well as No Girls Telepathy is "psychic" chaff...chemical based rather then psionically based which was effecting Emma without her realizing. Once she changed back into Human Form she was able to bootstrap her own brain chemistry to free herself from No-Girls hold.

As for the Strength, they really did a number on Warpath if Emma can manhandle him. He used to be Class 75 now he must be 1 ton at best.

BTW If you're unable to scan the pages then could you give us the numbers/text for her power grid? I heard it was greatly revised...wanted to check if they've changed her intelligence grid.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Makes sense, although I'd probably add that Emma in New X-Men #119 was hit in human form first and then transformed into Diamond so her blood changed into"Diamond" during the transformation. As well as No Girls Telepathy is "psychic" chaff...chemical based rather then psionically based which was effecting Emma without her realizing. Once she changed back into Human Form she was able to bootstrap her own brain chemistry to free herself from No-Girls hold.

As for the Strength, they really did a number on Warpath if Emma can manhandle him. He used to be Class 75 now he must be 1 ton at best.

BTW If you're unable to scan the pages then could you give us the numbers/text for her power grid? I heard it was greatly revised...wanted to check if they've changed her intelligence grid.

As I've said, I've always thought that it was lifting strength that was around 2-3 tons, and force of hits was at least a bit higher due to diamond fists being superhard...so I'd put Warpath at Class 10. But then it means that Emma is arguably better h2h fighter than current Warpath...though she could have picked fighting skills from other X-Men (for example Cyclops) Prodigy-style to enhance her own fighting performance.

And in case of the scan above, he talks about "liquid diamond lipstick"- the blood from the nose is red and human-looking.
I've also found out that we didn't post than thing in a whole (Emma also releases Cyclops from Martha's control here).

[centre]Sublime ordeal[/centre]

Emma and Scott invade the U-Men to investigate their job and get captured. Emma's face gets smashed so she turns into diamond to stop pain.
Notes- "liquid diamond" is said towards lipstick\saliva as Sublime probes Emma's lips- her blood is actually red and human-looking in scans, and he touches lips, not wipes her blood.
Also Sublime adresses that with Martha he exploited the flaw Emma had back then.

Later when the U-Men are about to dissect Emma and Scott, Emma breaks free from Martha's control and frees Cyclops so her can shoot the saw of an U-Man into pieses.

Originally posted by Charlotte DeBel
As I've said, I've always thought that it was lifting strength that was around 2-3 tons, and force of hits was at least a bit higher due to diamond fists being superhard...so I'd put Warpath at Class 10. But then it means that Emma is arguably better h2h fighter than current Warpath...though she could have picked fighting skills from other X-Men (for example Cyclops) Prodigy-style to enhance her own fighting performance.

And in case of the scan above, he talks about "liquid diamond lipstick"- the blood from the nose is red and human-looking.
I've also found out that we didn't post than thing in a whole (Emma also releases Cyclops from Martha's control here).

Here's a possible reason as to why her Strength was changed.

http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=31154&page=1&pp=20

Emma kills Sublime

That's the finale of the scans shown above. A pissed off Emma attacks Sublime and in burst of rage throws him out of the window.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Here's a possible reason as to why her Strength was changed.

http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=31154&page=1&pp=20

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Cool, any way you can scan the 3 pages for us? Pretty please? 😛

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/EmmaFrost.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/EmmaFrost2.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/EmmaFrost3.jpg

Originally posted by snoopdogg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/EmmaFrost.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/EmmaFrost2.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/EmmaFrost3.jpg

The very wakandan vibranium thing...so now we got a half-assed official explanation of that thing with a knife. And thanks a lot, darling🙂
But the 20miles thing is as much of a BS as class 50 strength was..by feats she's capable on much bigger radius.