Wonderwoman Vs. Silver Surfer

Originally posted by tkitna
I cant see this happening at all. Surfer has taken hits from just about everything in the Marvel Universe and survived (ok, the being knocked out by a brick was bullsh1t and I think we all agree on that) so I cant fathom how WW could one punch him. Being knocked around by Thanos isnt a good example if your trying to point out a weakness. Thanos pretty much knocks everybody around.

I just cant see WW ever beating the Surfer regardless of the arguments i've read. I cant see WW being faster than him either even if it is in h2h. Most of the fights Surfer has that are h2h, he pretty much jobs until he realizes he better take it seriously anyways.

It seems that you obviously don't know what her weapons and augmentations can do. The guantlet of atlas would put her on par or higher than Thanos in the strength Dept. She would be Ten times stronger and more invulnerable. A being who posesses the power to move a third of the earth times ten is insane. Adding in all those weapons and the God wave is over kill. And WW does have magical weapons to which surfer is NOT immune.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It seems that you obviously don't know what her weapons and augmentations can do. The guantlet of atlas would put her on par or higher than Thanos in the strength Dept. She would be Ten times stronger and more invulnerable. A being who posesses the power to move a third of the earth times ten is insane. Adding in all those weapons and the God wave is over kill. And WW does have magical weapons to which surfer is NOT immune.

Secondly, SS has absorbed the power of a star. Far less than that amount of energy could move entire worlds, if so applied.

Again, please keep in mind that I am open to a Diana stalemate or even a win...provided the burden of proof is met. IMO, so far it has not.

Originally posted by Mindship
It is not proven that 1) the Gauntlet of Atlas gives her, specifically, "Thanos"-level/higher strength (especially since it's 2 different universes); and 2) it is not proven that it makes her more invulnerable (WW says it increases her strength; nothing else is mentioned; and again, her control of her increased strength is compromised). To conclude that amped strength automatically = amped durability is not valid. Otherwise, Spiderman (eg) who is some 200x stronger than an ordinary man (average man can military-press 100 lbs; Spidey does ten tons, at least) would be bulletproof (200x skin tensile strength). But we don't even have to go there: an elephant is about 100x stronger than a man, yet its skin is punctured just as easily by a bullet as a human being's.

Secondly, SS has absorbed the power of a star. Far less than that amount of energy could move entire worlds, if so applied.

Again, please keep in mind that I am open to a Diana stalemate or even a win...provided the burden of proof is met. IMO, so far it has not.

Actually it is specifically stated that the guantlet gives ten times the strength and invulnerability. This is proven when Artemis and Wonder Girl wore them and weren't torn to pieces. W girl was hit by the doomsday clone and Diana remarked on how the guantlet was making her tuffer and she didnt' die from the hit. Thanks for taking the time to actually read a ww book. (sarcasm). Also, one would have to be a fool to think that Thanos would be more than ten times the strength of a superman lvl being. He's not that strong. If he were, he would be killing Thor and Hulk with just one punch. Best we've seen thanos beat is 3 top tiers at once. Not ten. Also, the GOd wave is the power of a billion stars. And lastly, Diana didn't want to wear the guantlet of atlas becuz her strength was so great it was hard to control as in she could hurt someone or kill someone. not that she couldn't swing her fist. people are confusing what she meant by control. IN an all out battle where she was going for the kill, she certainly will wear the guantlet as seen when she used it to kill the doomsday clone. The sandles of herme's also augment the wearers speed and reactions to the nth degree as shown by artemis and again ww when they both were granted super speed AND reflexes. Diana gains an nth degree boost to her speed and reflexes as well as Dimensional and teleportation abilities. Its a no brainer that A being ten times stronger than Superman class with all those magical weapons and defenses would beat surfer. THor sure as hell did and he didn't have nearly all of the weapons that Diana in this thread to command.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Actually it is specifically stated that the guantlet gives ten times the strength and invulnerability. This is proven when Artemis and Wonder Girl wore them and weren't torn to pieces. W girl was hit by the doomsday clone and Diana remarked on how the guantlet was making her tuffer and she didnt' die from the hit.

In none of the scans does it say anything about increased toughness, only enhanced strength and stamina (stamina does not = durability). Please post something on-panel to indicate your 10x durability point (I wasn't able to access all the scans, so I could've missed something).

Also, one would have to be a fool to think that Thanos would be more than ten times the strength of a superman lvl being. He's not that strong. If he were, he would be killing Thor and Hulk with just one punch. Best we've seen thanos beat is 3 top tiers at once. Not ten.

And lastly, Diana didn't want to wear the guantlet of atlas becuz her strength was so great it was hard to control as in she could hurt someone or kill someone. not that she couldn't swing her fist. people are confusing what she meant by control. IN an all out battle where she was going for the kill, she certainly will wear the guantlet as seen when she used it to kill the doomsday clone.

The sandles of herme's also augment the wearers speed and reactions to the nth degree as shown by artemis and again ww when they both were granted super speed AND reflexes. Diana gains an nth degree boost to her speed and reflexes as well as Dimensional and teleportation abilities.

Regardless of the above, there is still no proof that she could manage her Full Arsenal effectively, which you even admitted is quite possible...

I can agree that Diana would not be used to being so powerful with all of her gear and such.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Again you haven't shown Diana doing anything whatsoever fast enough to connect with Surfer. A millennium? Based on? The power of exaggeration?

So you're trying to assert that despite that Surfer has displayed the ability to move both his entire body and his limbs in a controlled manner at FTL, he doesn't have equal reactions. So when he flies at FTL speeds he's flying blind. Diana has also been hit by beings slower than her. That doesn't negate that she also has superspeed.

You claimed that Sue would attack Thor first, i.e. faster.
Reflexes is based off perceiving and reacting to sensory stimuli, be it visual or aural. I have no idea why you're trying to say hearing has nothing to do with reflexes.

What bell? The figurative "bell" that means that when a fight has no prep it just starts straight away. Even if one assumes it's a literal bell, Thor still has better reactions, can swing and throw the hammer FTL, and Mjolnir has broken through her forcefields before even if she could get it up before he did anything - which she wouldn't.
Assuming she has FTL reflexes based on "reacting to lasers" is folly; Wolverine, Spider-Man, Captain America and Daredevil do not have FTL reflexes. It's never been stated anywhere that IW gained superhuman reflexes from her transformation by cosmic radiation.

A blast is always needed? Matter manipulation is a psionic power.

SS has never moved his limbs FTL in a controlled manner without being in FTL travel through hyperspace. If you are traveling at FTL speeds and decided to make a hand gesture while traveling, then automatically your hand would move at FTL speed too (because your whole body is). But that doesn't mean you can move your hand that fast while standing still.
So your saying if you can travel at FTL speeds you must have FTL reflexes? And don't give me that flying blind crap for even you can stop in time if you are light years away from your destination and you have human reflexes.

And true one can be blind and have good reflexes through hearing.
But hear this:
You can be deaf and have good reflexes through sight. True or False?
If true then has Thor ever shown he can respond to sound faster than a human. If no, then you can't assume he can. Also in fairness, there has to be a physical bell in order to ensure that no one commences an attack before the other is able to try to commence one. That's like racing without a physical start instrument (one would be destined to take off before the other).

Yes Wolverine, Cap, etc don't not have FTL reflexes. But neither have they have ever dodged lasers from their reflexes. Moving in evasive action in order to not get hit is not dodging from reflexes (or seeing the attack coming and then moving). Now spiderman does have FTL reflexes. Since his spidersense tells him before the attack. Thus making his reflexes infinite speed (since he can dodge any speed provided he gets out of the way before the attack is launched).

You didn't counter my argument about Sue not being human and thus is feasible to have superhuman reflexes. It is understood that many characters have faster than human reflexes and it was never stated on panel (Hulk is one of them). And whose saying she needs FTL reflexes in order to get her shield up in time. Thor can supposedly throw his hammer at the speed of light (it is hyperbole though and not very credible) and not more. Thus she will need to get her shield up less than light speed. But she can (instantaneously). If Thor throws his hammer at the speed of light from 10 meters away then Sue would have to get her shield up in 33.33nanosec (add more time because of the whirl motion first). note : all this is assuming that she is responding to Thor . But since her shield gets up instanteously and planning is allowed before the bell then even with human reflexes she gets her shield up. And like you said reflexes are based on response to stimili. She doesn't need to respond to Thor. She has already decided to get her shield up before the fight began. Thus taking away the decision time to get them up. And add that it takes no time once she decides she wants her shield.

And where do you get the crap that all matter manipulation is psionic?
I seen with my very eyes that SS blasts (points his hand and fires) at target to manipulate its matter. I even seen visible power coming from his body before to a target in order to create an effect.

And Diana can move her limbs FTL (she blocks barrages of lasers and and other energy beams with pin point accuracy like a dayjob and even sending the beam back to its origin). Thus can easily land a blow on SS (since SS has never been shown to dodge FTL from an in-close battle situation and shows constantly that he cannot even dodge Hulk like speed). Now if you show me where he has dodge FTL attacks from up close quarters (or even from semiclose quarters) then I will agree that Diana will have a hard time connecting a hit on him.

Originally posted by h1a8
SS has never moved his limbs FTL in a controlled manner without being in FTL travel through hyperspace. If you are traveling at FTL speeds and decided to make a hand gesture while traveling, then automatically your hand would move at FTL speed too (because your whole body is). But that doesn't mean you can move your hand that fast while standing still.
So your saying if you can travel at FTL speeds you [B]must have FTL reflexes? And don't give me that flying blind crap for even you can stop in time if you are light years away from your destination and you have human reflexes.

And true one can be blind and have good reflexes through hearing.
But hear this:
You can be deaf and have good reflexes through sight. True or False?
If true then has Thor ever shown he can respond to sound faster than a human. If no, then you can't assume he can. Also in fairness, there has to be a physical bell in order to ensure that no one commences an attack before the other is able to try to commence one. That's like racing without a physical start instrument (one would be destined to take off before the other).

Yes Wolverine, Cap, etc don't not have FTL reflexes. But neither have they have ever dodged lasers from their reflexes. Moving in evasive action in order to not get hit is not dodging from reflexes (or seeing the attack coming and then moving). Now spiderman does have FTL reflexes. Since his spidersense tells him before the attack. Thus making his reflexes infinite speed (since he can dodge any speed provided he gets out of the way before the attack is launched).

You didn't counter my argument about Sue not being human and thus is feasible to have superhuman reflexes. It is understood that many characters have faster than human reflexes and it was never stated on panel (Hulk is one of them). And whose saying she needs FTL reflexes in order to get her shield up in time. Thor can supposedly throw his hammer at the speed of light (it is hyperbole though and not very credible) and not more. Thus she will need to get her shield up less than light speed. But she can (instantaneously). If Thor throws his hammer at the speed of light from 10 meters away then Sue would have to get her shield up in 33.33nanosec (add more time because of the whirl motion first). note : all this is assuming that she is responding to Thor . But since her shield gets up instanteously and planning is allowed before the bell then even with human reflexes she gets her shield up. And like you said reflexes are based on response to stimili. She doesn't need to respond to Thor. She has already decided to get her shield up before the fight began. Thus taking away the decision time to get them up. And add that it takes no time once she decides she wants her shield.

And where do you get the crap that all matter manipulation is psionic?
I seen with my very eyes that SS blasts (points his hand and fires) at target to manipulate its matter. I even seen visible power coming from his body before to a target in order to create an effect.

And Diana can move her limbs FTL (she blocks barrages of lasers and and other energy beams with pin point accuracy like a dayjob and even sending the beam back to its origin). Thus can easily land a blow on SS (since SS has never been shown to dodge FTL from an in-close battle situation and shows constantly that he cannot even dodge Hulk like speed). Now if you show me where he has dodge FTL attacks from up close quarters (or even from semiclose quarters) then I will agree that Diana will have a hard time connecting a hit on him. [/B]

Answering a question with a question. Yes if one is traveling in a physical manner through space from A to B, reflexes match one's speed. To imply otherwise is silly. If one cannot perceive and react to the world they would never be able to control their trajectory and destination.
Which characters do you believe have FTL speed but don't have FTL reflexes?

I've never seen anyone on here actually take the bell thing literally.

Sue doesn't have superhuman reflexes. Your basis for saying she does is because she blocks bullets and lasers when bullets and lasers lose to everyone. There has never been anything to suggest she was physically enhanced by the Cosmic Rays. And she doesn't stand a chance in hell against Thor. I'm going to leave it at that since it's getting ridiculously off-topic.

Spider-Man does not have FTL reflexes. 😐

Matter manipulation is a psionic power, I've seen Surfer do it without firing a blast. Just like I've seen Sersi do it by firing a blast and I've also seen her do it purely by thought.

Repeating for the third time now: You haven't shown a single thing to suggest Diana can even catch up to Surfer.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Mindship already explained the scan showing FTL movement.

Answering a question with a question. Yes if one is traveling in a physical manner through space from A to B, reflexes match one's speed. To imply otherwise is silly. If one cannot perceive and react to the world they would never be able to control their trajectory and destination.
Which characters do you believe have FTL speed but don't have FTL reflexes?

Would it be stupid? Let's think about this all other objects are moving at normal relativistic speeds an object moving much faster than light would not really be affected by them as they would be standing still if he was travelling at multiples of light speed. All he would have to do is stop and look up occasionally. Depending on the distance he was travelling and how many multiples of lightspeed he was travelling at would dictate how often he would have to look up and take a snapshot of what's in front of him/her before moving on. He would be taking superspeed jumps through an almost static Universe. It's that simple really. I'm not aying this is how the Surfer does it, as my experience of super luminal cosmic powered trajectories is zero in real space situations. As all other "normal" objects are not moving faster than light given sufficient range of detection he actually has no need to even stop and look up.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Mindship already explained the scan showing FTL movement.

Answering a question with a question. Yes if one is traveling in a physical manner through space from A to B, reflexes match one's speed. To imply otherwise is silly. If one cannot perceive and react to the world they would never be able to control their trajectory and destination.
Which characters do you believe have FTL speed but don't have FTL reflexes?

I've never seen anyone on here actually take the bell thing literally.

Sue doesn't have superhuman reflexes. Your basis for saying she does is because she blocks bullets and lasers when bullets and lasers lose to everyone. There has never been anything to suggest she was physically enhanced by the Cosmic Rays. And she doesn't stand a chance in hell against Thor. I'm going to leave it at that since it's getting ridiculously off-topic.

Spider-Man does not have FTL reflexes. 😐

Matter manipulation is a psionic power, I've seen Surfer do it without firing a blast. Just like I've seen Sersi do it by firing a blast and I've also seen her do it purely by thought.

Repeating for the third time now: You haven't shown a single thing to suggest Diana can even catch up to Surfer.

The Star Trek starships easily move at FTL speed. Yet they are controlled by humans. Humans easily know when to stop when they are confronting a star, a planet, etc. Even some fighter jets move faster than bullets yet the humans inside them can manuever in them with no prob. But that doesn't mean they can block a bullet (or even see it). You have very good arguments and make very good sense, except about this. With the things you have said and the decent logic you used it is mindboggling why this easy to understand logic alludes you. FTL doesn't imply FTL reflexes .

I said many things concerning Sue. Yet you only acknowledge the super human reflexes part. What about the part were I proved that even with human reflexes that she can get her shield up? If I say that because of A, B, or C then X is the case then you must show that all A,B and C is false or faulty. Yet you only are arguing against A. Thus that means B and C are valid and hence making X valid. Also know that I created a thread after that thread that stated she has her shield up before the fight. That was in order to commence a debate that will not be stuck forever at first base (whether she can get her shield up).

Show me where SS can manipulate matter without visible power preceding from his body towards the object.
note: I'm not implying he never did it without a blast from his hand (even though that is all I've seen) but without visible energy coming from him. I also have seen SS create certain effects on a target with just his mind. But visible power came from him towards the target.

Answer this:
"Have you ever seen Diana block a barrage of lasers or energy beams before? If yes, then does that prove that she not only has FTL reflexes but can move her limbs FTL and thus attack SS with FTL arm swings (or sword swings)?
If no, then I will try to find scans for you. But know this, you shouldn't debate in a thread if you are not aware of the basic things a certain character can do." And that is very basic knowledge for Diana. Just as basic as Superman lifting a tank over his head. She has even shown to deflect the beams with pin point accuracy to their origin (implying FTL thinking too).

Originally posted by The Libertine
Would it be stupid? Let's think about this all other objects are moving at normal relativistic speeds an object moving much faster than light would not really be affected by them as they would be standing still if he was travelling at multiples of light speed. All he would have to do is stop and look up occasionally. Depending on the distance he was travelling and how many multiples of lightspeed he was travelling at would dictate how often he would have to look up and take a snapshot of what's in front of him/her before moving on. He would be taking superspeed jumps through an almost static Universe. It's that simple really. I'm not aying this is how the Surfer does it, as my experience of super luminal cosmic powered trajectories is zero in real space situations. As all other "normal" objects are not moving faster than light given sufficient range of detection he actually has no need to even stop and look up.

I don't remember physics of motion well nowadays, but if for example someone was moving at half c wouldn't everything around him have a relative velocity of half c in the opposite direction.

Originally posted by h1a8
The Star Trek starships easily move at FTL speed. Yet they are controlled by humans. Humans easily know when to stop when they are confronting a star, a planet, etc. Even some fighter jets move faster than bullets yet the humans inside them can manuever in them with no prob. But that doesn't mean they can block a bullet (or even see it). You have very good arguments and make very good sense, except about this. With the things you have said and the decent logic you used it is mindboggling why this easy to understand logic alludes you. [B]FTL doesn't imply FTL reflexes .[/B]

It's more mindboggling to me that you think that Surfer can zig zag through an Armada at FTL, cross the universe and so on, and doesn't have the mental faculties to perceive what he's doing.

Are you really trying to say that Surfer doesn't have FTL reflexes? So he just has normal human reflexes? Or what? Wolverine level reflexes?

Originally posted by h1a8
I said many things concerning Sue. Yet you only acknowledge the super human reflexes part. What about the part were I proved that even with human reflexes that she can get her shield up? If I say that because of A, B, or C then X is the case then you must show that all A,B and C is false or faulty. Yet you only are arguing against A. Thus that means B and C are valid and hence making X valid. Also know that I created a thread after that thread that stated she has her shield up before the fight. That was in order to commence a debate that will not be stuck forever at first base (whether she can get her shield up).

Originally posted by h1a8
Show me where SS can manipulate matter without visible power preceding from his body towards the object.
note: I'm not implying he never did it without a blast from his hand (even though that is all I've seen) but without visible energy coming from him. I also have seen SS create certain effects on a target with just his mind. But visible power came from him towards the target.

Originally posted by h1a8
Answer this:
"Have you ever seen Diana block a barrage of lasers or energy beams before? If yes, then does that prove that she not only has FTL reflexes but can move her limbs FTL and thus attack SS with FTL arm swings (or sword swings)?
If no, then I will try to find scans for you. But know this, you shouldn't debate in a thread if you are not aware of the basic things a certain character can do." And that is very basic knowledge for Diana. Just as basic as Superman lifting a tank over his head. She has even shown to deflect the beams with pin point accuracy to their origin (implying FTL thinking too).

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Mindship already explained the scan showing FTL movement.

Answering a question with a question. Yes if one is traveling in a physical manner through space from A to B, reflexes match one's speed. To imply otherwise is silly. If one cannot perceive and react to the world they would never be able to control their trajectory and destination.
Which characters do you believe have FTL speed but don't have FTL reflexes?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I don't remember physics of motion well nowadays, but if for example someone was moving at half c wouldn't everything around him have a relative velocity of half c in the opposite direction.
Star Trek is of what relevance?

Yes it would but he is moving at supposed post C so.

Originally posted by The Libertine
Would it be stupid? Let's think about this all other objects are moving at normal relativistic speeds an object moving much faster than light would not really be affected by them as they would be standing still if he was travelling at multiples of light speed. All he would have to do is stop and look up occasionally. Depending on the distance he was travelling and how many multiples of lightspeed he was travelling at would dictate how often he would have to look up and take a snapshot of what's in front of him/her before moving on. He would be taking superspeed jumps through an almost static Universe. It's that simple really. I'm not aying this is how the Surfer does it, as my experience of super luminal cosmic powered trajectories is zero in real space situations. As all other "normal" objects are not moving faster than light given sufficient range of detection he actually has no need to even stop and look up.

Originally posted by The Libertine
Yes it would but he is moving at supposed post C so.

However in subluminal flight up until the point of c e.g. c - 50 m/s would everything around him be moving at a relative velocity of c - 50 m/s in the opposite direction. I.e. are you implying he'd only have reflexes capable of perceiving the world to the point of lightspeed?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I don't know the physics of superluminal travel in any depth so I'll just assume that the world would be stationary as per your assessment.

However in subluminal flight up until the point of c e.g. c - 50 m/s would everything around him be moving at a relative velocity of c - 50 m/s in the opposite direction. I.e. are you implying he'd only have reflexes capable of perceiving the world to the point of lightspeed?

Again he has cosmic awareness so reaction speed is actually moot, when you know where everything in the Universe is at any given time and your position relative to it. Reflexes really are not the issue. Even without it he can predict positions, as at normal speeds Newtons mechanical model is fine for outcomes. Reflexes have nothing to do with space travel the course is probably charted before he moves.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Star Trek is of what relevance?

The relevance holds due to the mimickry of canon marvel comics showing humans flying through space at FTL travel in their starships and are able to manuever and stop at their destination (or when they see trouble).

[QUOTE] It's more mindboggling to me that you think that Surfer can zig zag through an Armada at FTL, cross the universe and so on, and doesn't have the mental faculties to perceive what he's doing.

Yet it isn't mindblogging that human jet fighters can fly many times faster than the speed of a bullet and have the mental faculties to perceive what they're doing yet they can't block, dodge, or even see a bullet when standing still.

Are you really trying to say that Surfer doesn't have FTL reflexes? So he just has normal human reflexes? Or what? Wolverine level reflexes?

He hasn't shown it in fighting (more like Hulk like reflexes at best).

Regardless of whether she can get her shield up she dies. Off-topic.

um bubble chest, throat, brain, etc. but we can discuss that later.

Somewhere in the respect thread. It's also touched upon above by Stupid Rookie. And you believe that this "visible power" (NB not referring to a blast) can be blocked?

The power moved nearly linear and thus can be dodged or blocked by the Aegis shield.

I'm aware of the things Diana can do. More aware than most. I know she regularly blocks bullets and other projectiles with her vambraces. You still fail to show her moving at any speed that would allow her to catch a moving SS.

Good point (The best one so far from you).
Well all I have to say to that is how do we know how fast SS can fly in a battle situation in which he cannot leave the battlefield? How do we know how long it takes him to accelerate to achieve a speed that diana isn't able to catch him? How big is the battlefield? These may not be good questions so I will just say if SS wants to play hard to get then what about the Godwave?

And it is stated on panel that Diana is swifter than Hermes. So I give her about very close to light speed. But in this battle her abilities are increased. So she moves much faster. Is that true?

I don't watch Star Trek, but I always thought that they warped from place to place in those shows. Surfer probably warps to but I'm currently referring to

A human pilot in a aircraft has all sorts of instrumentation with which to aid in their flight, even then if something were to suddenly be in front of them they wouldn't be able to maneuver the craft out of the way before collision.

If a body is moving at a certain (subluminal) velocity as far as I understand it everything that is stationary around them will be moving at an equal relative velocity in the opposite direction. If a person has the ability to move in a controlled manner at a certain velocity then they'd have to have the ability to perceive the world moving at that speed.

Originally posted by h1a8
Good point (The best one so far from you).
Well all I have to say to that is how do we know how fast SS can fly in a battle situation in which he cannot leave the battlefield? How do we know how long it takes him to accelerate to achieve a speed that diana isn't able to catch him? How big is the battlefield? These may not be good questions so I will just say if SS wants to play hard to get then what about the Godwave?

I'd also disagree that WW blocking bullets and lasers means she has superluminal arm speeds.

Originally posted by Mindship
http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ww111100sx.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ww112107fd.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ww112110iv.jpg
(Thanks to dawsey28 for the scans from WW respect thread).

In none of the scans does it say anything about increased toughness, only enhanced strength and stamina (stamina does not = durability). Please post something on-panel to indicate your 10x durability point (I wasn't able to access all the scans, so I could've missed something).

There is a lot of supposition here, not proof.

I never said she couldn't swing her fist; I took at it as was implied: that her ability to use the exact amount of power in an exact way was compromised. Not that she was too musclebound to move. Note also that the doomsday clone was not moving--at all, let alone at FTL speed (thus making it easier to land an amped-strength effective blow).

"Nth degree"? Again, unless you have scans to prove this, this is supposition. And it still wouldn't prove that she's faster than Surfer, only that she's very, very, very fast.

Regardless of the above, there is still no proof that she could manage her Full Arsenal effectively, which you even admitted is quite possible...

When Wonder Girl had on the Gauntlet of atlas and the Doomsday being bit her, She flew in the air for miles and was unhurt by the punch. WW remarked in her head that Cassie was wearing the Guantlet of atlas and it was amping her stamina and invulnerability and that is the only reason she survived. Artemis had on the guantlet of atlas and the white wizard took the lasso of truth and swung artemis around like a yo yo and hit her on everything he could. she should have died with the first hit as he was like 20 times stronger than the demon. She survived becuz of the guantlet amping her invulnerability. long enough for her to give the guantlet to diana.

as far as the sandles go, they were shown on panel giving artemis and Wonder girl superspeed and reflexes. When worn by diana, they amp her even more. I said to the nth degree becuz it is an unknown and nth is the unknown.

Also what is all this crap about WW not being able to land a punch on surfer. He would most certainly get in close to her. She would be wearing the sandles amping her speed and teleportation. And she also has the Eyes of a goddess. It's how she is able to tag beings like the flash and superman. Flash has waaaaaaaaaaaaay faster reaction times than surfer in combat and close quarters.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

I don't watch Star Trek, but I always thought that they warped from place to place in those shows. Surfer probably warps to but I'm currently referring to

to what? Remember I used the comic senerio as well.

A human pilot in a aircraft has all sorts of instrumentation with which to aid in their flight, even then if something were to suddenly be in front of them they wouldn't be able to maneuver the craft out of the way before collision.

But anyway I just found out you are using a fallacy (It was quite tricky too). Notice my statement was that "traveling FTL doesn't imply FTL reflexes" (in itself). You can give a human the power of FTL with his own human perception ability. If he uses it at a close distance then he will not perceive when to stop. But give that human light years in which to travel and he will easily know when to stop (Use the sun reasoning above).

If a body is moving at a certain (subluminal) velocity as far as I understand it everything that is stationary around them will be moving at an equal relative velocity in the opposite direction. If a person has the ability to move in a controlled manner at a certain velocity then they'd have to have the ability to perceive the world moving at that speed.

ermm That's the only point I've been repeatedly saying... that I haven't seen a thing to indicate she'd be able to catch him at all let alone connect with him.

I'd also disagree that WW blocking bullets and lasers means she has superluminal arm speeds.

Originally posted by h1a8
to what? Remember I used the comic senerio as well.

Originally posted by h1a8
I just proved she can connect. But you didn't defend against the Godwave argument or Medusa head (someone else mentioned this).

Originally posted by h1a8
[B]If she blocks a barrage of lasers with pin point accuracy (all coming at her in the air) then how in the earth is she not moving her arms faster than light?

I'll take the middle chunk into consideration but I'm still not particularly seeing it.

That's all for now. Partly because I can't be bothered. Partly because I'm too tired to ponder physics and the speed of cognition. Partly because I'm not particularly adverse to WW winning anyway. And partly because I'm bored of the thread. 🙂

Silver Surfer is not a god. Thus the lasso is enough. If this was vs. Thor it would be a different fight.

WW ftw.