Originally posted by Bardiel13
Yes, but in a negetive way. "Stealing" is a negetive term, when you could simply say "influenced" and it's basically the same thing.
It's negAtive to you. It doesn't matter does it? It's basically the same thing. You're bothered because you have a blind love for metal, not my problem.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's negAtive to you. It doesn't matter does it? It's basically the same thing. You're bothered because you have a blind love for metal, not my problem.-AC
I'm pretty sure most people consider "steal" a negetive term. I'm also aware you probably know that too and you're just trying to start something.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, really, you're just taking it personal.YOU replied to ME.
-AC
I'm not taking it personal. I'd just like to know why you'd consider it stealing instead of influencing. Or do you say that about all other forms of music?
"Yeah... Rock stole a bunch from Blues... That's how it was made. Through theft." Sounds like something you would say?
Originally posted by Bardiel13
I'm not taking it personal. I'd just like to know why you'd consider it stealing instead of influencing. Or do you say that about all other forms of music?
"Yeah... Rock stole a bunch from Blues... That's how it was made. Through theft." Sounds like something you would say?
You're taking it too seriously, and now YOU are trying to start something because you're whiney about metal.
If it's the same thing to you, why are you so persistent in trying to get me to use a word that you like? You're taking it personal cos you don't like anybody saying anything that isn't overly positive about metal.
Deal with it.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're taking it too seriously, and now YOU are trying to start something because you're whiney about metal.If it's the same thing to you, why are you so persistent in trying to get me to use a word that you like? You're taking it personal cos you don't like anybody saying anything that isn't overly positive about metal.
Deal with it.
-AC
It's not quite the same to me. Or anyone for that matter. You used the word "steal", instead of influenced. To me, it sounded like you were trying to shoot the kid down. I asked why. Suddenly, you're going on about how I'm whiney and I should "deal." I'm not getting angry or and 'whiney' over anything. I'd just like to know what your beef is with everyone. Are you on your period? If so, then I understand completely.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
It's not quite the same to me. Or anyone for that matter. You used the word "steal", instead of influenced. To me, it sounded like you were trying to shoot the kid down. I asked why. Suddenly, you're going on about how I'm whiney and I should "deal." I'm not getting angry or and 'whiney' over anything. I'd just like to know what your beef is with everyone. Are you on your period? If so, then I understand completely.
Wait. Let's go over the dynamics of this.
I make a comment to a kid that you interpret as me shooting him down intentionally, followed by an assumption that I have a beef with "everyone", followed by the very childish question "Are you on your period?", with the implication being that I am the one with the problem? You accused me of trying to "start something". This is most peculiar since you replied to me about something I said, purely for the reason that you didn't like the way I did it. To that I will say, as the French do; le toughe shite.
Is this because I tore apart your argument previously, because you made a comment so utterly ridiculous that you retracted it, then in a huff, proclaimed you'd never debate with me again? Because if that's the case, you're breaking that.
So now that your overly emotional defense of metal has brought us here (And that is what's brought us here), let's review your "It's not quite the same to me.", comment;
Originally posted by Bardiel13
It's not quite the same to me. Or anyone for that matter.
That'd be reasonable if you hadn't previously said;
Originally posted by Bardiel13
"Stealing" is a negetive term, when you could simply say "influenced" and it's basically the same thing.
So as you can see, you've brought this upon yourself with yet another wave of contradiction and melodrama.
Once again; deal with it. You made this bigger than it needed to be, you replied to ME after explicitly saying you have no interest in debating with me, and then accuse me of starting something.
Get over it, boy.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Wait. Let's go over the dynamics of this.I make a comment to a kid that you interpret as me shooting him down intentionally, followed by an assumption that I have a beef with "everyone", followed by the very childish question "Are you on your period?", with the implication being that I am the one with the problem? You accused me of trying to "start something". This is most peculiar since you replied to me about something I said, purely for the reason that you didn't like the way I did it. To that I will say, as the French do; le toughe shite.
Is this because I tore apart your argument previously, because you made a comment so utterly ridiculous that you retracted it, then in a huff, proclaimed you'd never debate with me again? Because if that's the case, you're breaking that.
So now that your overly emotional defense of metal has brought us here (And that is what's brought us here), let's review your "It's not quite the same to me.", comment;
That'd be reasonable if you hadn't previously said;
So as you can see, you've brought this upon yourself with yet another wave of contradiction and melodrama.
Once again; deal with it. You made this bigger than it needed to be, you replied to ME after explicitly saying you have no interest in debating with me, and then accuse me of starting something.
Get over it, boy.
-AC
Funny enough, the debate about Korn was concluded between I and another KMC poster a little while after I had enough of the sidetracking between our argument. Turns out Korn is more rock than metal as of their latest release. Funny how that took only one page, while the SAME debate between us spanded several.
Now, let me explain and kill this conversation early.
"Steal" and "Influence" in the context of music can mean the same thing in definition. The style was emulated or integrated. In regards to positive and negetive contexts, they are different. When you say something influenced another, it implies nothing sinister. However when you say style A "stole" from style B, it implies that style A was wrong and cheap, playing off of style B's popularity in an attempt to sell.
When you watch a documentary on Rock and Roll, have you ever heard "X artists stole from Blues in order to make Rock"? No. They refer to it as influence.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
Funny enough, the debate about Korn was concluded between I and another KMC poster a little while after I had enough of the sidetracking between our argument. Turns out Korn is more rock than metal as of their latest release. Funny how that took only one page, while the SAME debate between us spanded several.
It took one page because you two were debating. I was making a point about your debate that you didn't grasp. You kept insisting that fans didn't consider them metal, that was nothing to do with me, that was your debate with Nellinator. My debate was that regardless of what fans think, they do not get to decide what genre a band fits in if they clearly do, technically, fit in a certain one.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
Now, let me explain and kill this conversation early.
Early? Not replying to me like you swore you wouldn't by your OWN choice would have cause this to not even start, but whatever. Continue if you want, just don't whine later.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
"Steal" and "Influence" in the context of music can mean the same thing in definition. The style was emulated or integrated. In regards to positive and negetive contexts, they are different.
So what? I honestly couldn't care less if you think I was being negative, I keep trying to point this out to you, but you honestly won't let it go because you have some child-like defense of metal. Like a kid who foolishly believes his dad is the best fighter in the world.
Grow up and realise it's not the case.
Disclaimer: I know you'd be silly enough to think the kid/father part was aimed at you, it wasn't.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
When you say something influenced another, it implies nothing sinister. However when you say style A "stole" from style B, it implies that style A was wrong and cheap, playing off of style B's popularity in an attempt to sell.
Possibly the most desperate deduction I've seen recently.
As for implications; no, not really, you're honestly just retracting all this from my post because you want to reply to me.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
When you watch a documentary on Rock and Roll, have you ever heard "X artists stole from Blues in order to make Rock"? No. They refer to it as influence.
So what? How many times will I have to tell you I don't care what you think of how I said it? Do you really not get that?
That's all this is about; you don't like how I worded my post. I really couldn't care less. Just don't whine to me about starting "something" when you replied to me out of, I can only assume, sour grapes.
You didn't like how I said it, ok, be sure to cry me a river. What do you want me to do about it? You are dragging this out because you kicked something off and now you will continue it because as you've said, you feel the need to reply, always, out of pride.
It's really silly, Bardiel. Just let it go.
-AC
[QUOTE=9545901]Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Possibly the most desperate deduction I've seen recently.
As for implications; no, not really, you're honestly just retracting all this from my post because you want to reply to me.
So you honestly decided, out of all the words in your vocabulary, to choose "steal" as your description? So were you ignorant of the fact that the word "steal" in that context implies somthing negetive?
Originally posted by Bardiel13
So you honestly decided, out of all the words in your vocabulary, to choose "steal" as your description? So were you ignorant of the fact that the word "steal" in that context implies somthing negetive?
I consider it negAtive that a genre, at its heart, is so dull and boring that it has to steal from others, and in many cases it is as good as stealing, because there's only so much that "metal" can be influenced by until it stops being metal, but metal fans still claim it as their own, which it isn't.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I consider it neg[b]Ative that a genre, at its heart, is so dull and boring that it has to steal from others, and in many cases it is as good as stealing, because there's only so much that "metal" can be influenced by until it stops being metal, but metal fans still claim it as their own, which it isn't.-AC [/B]
Oh wow, was I typing it with an E? I wonder how that got ingrained into my system...
Anywho, I still fail to see how mixing genres equals stealing. Give me an example of metal "stealing."
Originally posted by Bardiel13
Anywho, I still fail to see how mixing genres equals stealing. Give me an example of metal "stealing."
I will paste the explanation to you again:
"I consider it negAtive that a genre, at its heart, is so dull and boring that it has to steal from others, and in many cases it is as good as stealing, because there's only so much that "metal" can be influenced by until it stops being metal, but metal fans still claim it as their own, which it isn't.".
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I will paste the explanation to you again:"I consider it negAtive that a genre, at its heart, is so dull and boring that it has to steal from others, and in many cases it is as good as stealing, because there's only so much that "metal" can be influenced by until it stops being metal, but metal fans still claim it as their own, which it isn't.".
-AC
It appears second time wasn't the charm. I still don't see what metal steals and how it constitutes as stealing. Perhaps you should actually give me an example, like I had asked, instead of regurgitating the same answer that didn't work the first time.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
It appears second time wasn't the charm. I still don't see what metal steals and how it constitutes as stealing. Perhaps you should actually give me an example, like I had asked, instead of regurgitating the same answer that didn't work the first time.
The example of what I'm talking about is in the quote. If I could honestly make it any simpler, I would.
It isn't my fault you do not understand.
Claiming metal as innovative because of something it ISN'T doing, but another genre DID, that's stealing, or plagiarism, or whatever you want to call it.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The example of what I'm talking about is in the quote. If I could honestly make it any simpler, I would.It isn't my fault you do not understand.
Claiming metal as innovative because of something it ISN'T doing, but another genre DID, that's stealing, or plagiarism, or whatever you want to call it.
-AC
Where did I say innovative?
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I wasn't saying YOU were, it was a general remark in conjunction with your point, and mine.Do you honestly do this for post count or something?
-AC
I dunno, you seem quite fond of misunderstanding posts and taking minor details of sentences literally.
Still waiting for an real-life example of metal stealing from a genre, scooter.
Originally posted by Bardiel13
Still waiting for an real-life example of metal stealing from a genre, scooter.
How many times do I honestly have to tell you that it's explained in the TWO quotes I just gave you? It's not a concept that has examples, it's a much wider idea than that. It's not specific to A band.
I never said it with an example in mind because that's not how the point works. Not sure how you're having trouble understanding it, and I can't say it any simpler than I already have, twice.
"Claiming metal as innovative because of something it ISN'T doing, but another genre DID, that's stealing.".
"I consider it negAtive that a genre, at its heart, is so dull and boring that it has to steal from others, and in many cases it is as good as stealing, because there's only so much that "metal" can be influenced by until it stops being metal, but metal fans still claim it as their own, which it isn't.".
-AC