Originally posted by kamikz
We have already debated the "as strong as", and we explained that Lucas was not talking about them as equals....
He did contradicted with what he has made by that statement.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
There is no ambiguity in Lucas' words. He said Vader was supposed to become twice as strong as Sidious. There is also no ambiguity in the term "power", so I don't know why you're using that as the focal point of your argument.
And some people in official SW forum said that power of a Jedi is ambiguous. A Jedi can be very impressive in a certain situation and not at all impressive in a different situation. Star Wars is a dynamic world and power factor of a Jedi fluctuates depending upon the situations and circumstances.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Lucas' words are contradictory. He simply indicated that Anakin was as strong as the Emperor in ROTS period and gave no clarifications in the rolling stones interview.And some people in official SW forum said that power of a Jedi is ambiguous. A Jedi can be very impressive in a certain situation and not at all impressive in a different situation. Star Wars is a dynamic world and power factor of a Jedi fluctuates depending upon the situations and circumstances.
He never said Anakin was as strong as Sidious at the point of ROTS. Secondly, I believe it was in the ROTS commentary or in MANY MANY other sources that Lucas states that Anakin at his best would be twice as powerful as Sidious.
Power is not ambiguous. I don't know what you're talking about. Yoda's power wasn't "Ambiguous". Luke's power wasn't "ambiguous".
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
He never said Anakin was as strong as Sidious at the point of ROTS. Secondly, I believe it was in the ROTS commentary or in MANY MANY other sources that Lucas states that Anakin at his best would be twice as powerful as Sidious.
Here is quote: But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor -- he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Power is not ambiguous. I don't know what you're talking about. Yoda's power wasn't "Ambiguous". Luke's power wasn't "ambiguous".
OR
From Drew K's blog entry: Measuring relative power in the grand scheme isn't always possible.
Strength and Force Mastery are not Ambiguous. But over-all power of a Jedi is an ambiguous thing.
An example: Freedon Nadd in a masterful display of power stopped Vodo from using Battle Meditation from Light Years away. This however does not means that Nadd could perform this feat at any time.
Thus power factor is also situational based and is thus ambiguous.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That is our assumptions of Lucas's words. Lucas simply indicated that Anakin was as strong as the Emperor. He did not used the word "potential" in that point and neither he gave any indications that how Anakin is as strong as the Emperor.He did contradicted with what he has made by that statement.
No, the quote is taking out of context, and people take it way to literal. Saying "he is not on par with the Emperor" doesn't mean that he was, had he said "anymore" or "used to be" (from then on, does not equal "used to be" or "anymore"😉 then yeah, that could have been something to debate, but he just says "not on par with the Emperor", it's just stating that he isn't and that he has decreased in power, (To show his power level simply) nowhere does it say that he once was.
The "from then on" doesn't mean he used to be, once again, he is just stating that Darth Vader is not on par with the Emperor, to RIGHT AFTER THAT go to explain where exactly Vader stands. It does NOT say that Anakin by ROTS was equal to him, nor that Anakin EVER was....
If I wanted to do the same, I would go around saying "Lucas states that Darth Maul and Tyrannus are equal, and Vader is equal to them", but we all know that what Lucas said didn't equal to that. "From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor, but more like Darth Maul or Dooku".
See, same thing....
Originally posted by kamikz
No, the quote is taking out of context, and people take it way to literal. Saying "he is not on par with the Emperor" doesn't mean that he was, had he said "anymore" or "used to be" (from then on, does not equal "used to be" or "anymore"😉 then yeah, that could have been something to debate, but he just says "not on par with the Emperor", it's just stating that he isn't and that he has decreased in power, (To show his power level simply) nowhere does it say that he once was.
The "from then on" doesn't mean he used to be, once again, he is just stating that Darth Vader is not on par with the Emperor, to RIGHT AFTER THAT go to explain where exactly Vader stands. It does NOT say that Anakin by ROTS was equal to him, nor that Anakin EVER was....If I wanted to do the same, I would go around saying "Lucas states that Darth Maul and Tyrannus are equal, and Vader is equal to them", but we all know that what Lucas said didn't equal to that. "From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor, but more like Darth Maul or Dooku".
See, same thing....
Again take a clear look at this line: "From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor". Here Lucas is saying that after Anakin was defeated and suffered horrible burns, he was no longer as strong as the Emperor. So it means that he was as strong as the Emperor before those injuries.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Lucas said in the rolling stones interview that Anakin was as "strong" as the Emperor. He did not used the term "potential" when making this assumption. This clearly contradicts with what he has shown us in his movies.
Distracted?When Kyp (possessed by Kun's spirit) attacked Luke, he fought back as best as he could but he still failed. He could not defend against Kun's techniques and thus lost. This is surely an impressive achievement by a 4000 year old spirit.
And it took the combined efforts of all Luke's Jedi apprentices, Luke's own spirit and Vodo's spirit to stop and defeat Kun's ancient spirit. Now imagine that how strong was Kun.
Yoda was indeed very strong in the Force but this does not means that he is far above the legendary Jedi/Sith of Old Republic period.
And Sidious is the strongest Sith Lord in Bane's Rule of Two Lineage.
SW Databank: He is the most powerful practitioner of the Sith ways in modern times.And power is also an ambiguous thing.
No I don't.I recognize Yoda's position and consider him to be among the TOP 5 Jedi of all times in the Star Wars Saga.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Again take a clear look at this line: "From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor". Here Lucas is saying that after Anakin was defeated and suffered horrible burns, he was no longer as strong as the Emperor. So it means that he was as strong as the Emperor before those injuries.
And this directly contradicts the movies and several other sources stating yoda is the strongest jedi at that time. Anakin had raw power and what use is it if he didnt have mastery over it? Its like having the best weapon in the world and not knowing which button to press
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is your way of understanding his comment and I do not agree with this.Again take a clear look at this line: "From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor". Here Lucas is saying that after Anakin was defeated and suffered horrible burns, he was no longer as strong as the Emperor. So it means that he was as strong as the Emperor before those injuries.
No, again, it doesn't mean he once was, it never says that in the text, Sidious is just there as an example. For crying out ****ing loud, you KNOW that Anakin IS NOT Sidious equals, LUCAS has said so BEFORE, the MOVIE shows that Anakin IS NOT as strong as him, and OTHER PEOPLE do NOT agree with your way of seeing the text. It is ****ing obvious that this quote means nothing, because YOU see the text like that, while others don't AND they have all the facts not to, AND Lucas words on all other interviews in the world, Sidious and Anakin WAS NEVER EQUAL.
LUCAS has said so BEFORE
the MOVIE shows that Anakin IS NOT as strong as him
and OTHER PEOPLE do NOT agree with your way of seeing the text.
It is ****ing obvious that this quote means nothing, because YOU see the text like that, while others don't AND they have all the facts not to, AND Lucas words on all other interviews in the world, Sidious and Anakin WAS NEVER EQUAL.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is your way of understanding his comment and I do not agree with this.Again take a clear look at this line: "From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor". Here Lucas is saying that after Anakin was defeated and suffered horrible burns, he was no longer as strong as the Emperor. So it means that he was as strong as the Emperor before those injuries.
Wow, talk about twisting GL's words to fit your argument.
Originally posted by darthsith19
When?Lucas overrules the movie.
Never again AS STRONG means he was was AS STRONG, if you don't believe me ask you're english teacher or someone who is unbiased and (s)he will tell you that that is what it means.
Then open your eyes, look at it again, read it without being biased, and if your still to near-sighted to see what it means then ask your english teacher.
You open your ****ing eyes, you just take the quote to literal....
Lucas has said before that the only ones strong enough to stand against the Emperor is Mace and Yoda, not Anakin. (ROTS documentary) So there you have it...
Irrelevant, cause Lucas has already said that Anakin isn't strong enough...
Use your brain, why do you even bother debating this? You KNOW that Anakin is nowhere near Sidious in the force, and they are pretty near eachother in sabers, it makes no sense to say that they are equal, and since other people don't agree with the way you think of this quote, it leaves your argument pretty much destroyed.
So here we have it, either we take your side, where you take one single quote from Lucas, saying it says they are equal though everything points against it, or we take my side, where it says that Lucas already has DEFINITIVE quotes that he is not as strong as Sidious, where we have facts to back it up and equally many opinions that the quote does not mean he is equal. Which one shall we pick?
Also, I just got the quote completly, follow...
Lucas says, "which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor -- he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become".
That quote, does NOT speak for ROTS Anakin's power level, it speaks for "what he could have become". Read it carefully, all it ever involvs is about how "Sidious wanted someone more powerful than him", then it is followed by "Obi-Wan screwed that up, now he is not as powerful as Sidious". It IS about potential, it is not about ROTS Anakin's power level. The "as strong as" is fitting perfectly in that, he is saying that instead of someone that would be more powerful than him, he isn't even equal to him. You are saying that since he says, "from then on, he is not as strong as the Emperor" it must mean that Anakin by ROTS is as strong as him. This is wrong, for THE ENTIRE CONVERSATION is about what Anakin COULD HAVE BECOME, nothing is about what Anakin was in ROTS. The as strong as is simply to show that he is not even above the Emperor anymore, as he should have been, which was the Emperor's request.
If you are still going to take it so damn literally, then we might just go ahead and say that Maul, Dooku and Vader are all equal, because Lucas put them together such....
Also, to put a little more icing on the cake, if Anakin was as strong as Sidious, then why would Yoda allow OB1 to fight Anakin if he just said, "To fight this Lord Sidious, strong enough you are not." If he isn't strong enough to fight Sidious then he isn't strong enough to fight Anakin, based on your YOUR biased illogical assertion.