Originally posted by srankmissingninDoes the Marvel Universe have more Martial Arts power that I'm unaware of in the same way that DC Comics has more Chaos Magic? 😕
*whispers*I... I think maybe Cap more skilled then Wolverine.
But IMO the top three in Marvel are Cap, Wolverine and Elektra, all being pretty close to equal.... and all better then any DC streets.
Originally posted by Draco69
That's speed. And strength. Due to his peak human stats.But that doesn't indicate MA skills better than friggin' Richard Dragon...
😐
I wasn't talking about skill, that part of my post was supposed to be in response to Capt it up's claim that Rogers hadn't ever moved faster than the human eye.
Originally posted by Martian_mind
.....Wow so much Capt Wank.He wins,but due to enhanced physical abilities,not skill.
I pretty much agree; I see Captain America and Batman as fairly comparable in skill. I see Shiva and Batman as fairly comparable in skill. I see Cass and Batman as fairly comparable in skill....
They are all on about the same level.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Does the Marvel Universe have more Martial Arts power that I'm unaware of in the same way that DC Comics has more Chaos Magic? 😕
No, just better Martial Artists. 😉
One them is bound to be superior to the other, it just happens to be marvel in this case. The difference between Cap and Shiva isn't that great, it's about the same as the difference between Shiva and Bat, but even though it isn't a huge gab, it is a gab none the less. Not sure what everyone is getting worked up about.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
If you can find a scan, or provide an issue number, where it is stated Batman/Shiva/Cass or even Dragon or Turner have mastered every martial art, please do. As is I'm pretty sure they closest to that is the number 127... which isn't the same thing.
I don't have the exact scan. But you can find Batman's here:
http://members.tripod.com/agent0x7/dkskill1.html
It also has references to Shiva and Dragon.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Yes he is, Zaran said so himself.
Whoopee. Zaran's comment on Captain's skills is just hyperbole.
Tell me this: When did Captain America EVER have the time to study EVERY form of combat? Who taught him? When did he learn? How did he learn?
He got the serum. Got some training. Fought in WWII. Got frozen. Got Revived. Joined the Avengers.
Where's the training?
I'm sorry but saying Captain America possesses more martial arts knowledge and skills than Lady Shiva, Richard Dragon, Iron Fist, Shang Chi and Cassandra Cain with the evidence of the heresey of one supervillain is just ludicrious.
Not one forum on the internet would attest to your opinion.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
No, just better Martial Artists. 😉One them is bound to be superior to the other, it just happens to be marvel in this case. The difference between Cap and Shiva isn't that great, it's about the same as the difference between Shiva and Bat, but even though it isn't a huge gab, it is a gab none the less. Not sure what everyone is getting worked up about.
....In a contest of pure Skill,Richard Dragon or Bronze Tiger would take Cap.Make them physically equal and Captain would lose.Soljer one of the main Crusaders of cap in this thread Says Cap is equal to Shiva/Batman and Richard and Tiger are both above them.
Hell in those circumstances constantine Drakon could do it,This beleif that marvel has te best martial artists is slightly mired by Karate Kids existence..
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
No, just better Martial Artists. 😉
Not really. They're even. However DC martial artists rarely have the spotlight due to two reasons:
A) Batman. Everyone jobs to him.
B) Superman and the rest of the pack.
Marvel puts far more focus on street-levelers and plainly enhance their abilities beyond human levels to make them appear better.
However DC prefers to make their MAs as "realistic" as possible.
You just don't have alot of knowledge of their MAs. With many obscure characters that rarely get the spotlight like Judomaster, Shado, O-Sensei, Kirigi, etc.
However if we were plainly to go on feats rather than character history than Marvel wins because DC rarely gives their street-levelers any chance to shine.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
One them is bound to be superior to the other, it just happens to be marvel in this case. The difference between Cap and Shiva isn't that great, it's about the same as the difference between Shiva and Bat, but even though it isn't a huge gab, it is a gab none the less. Not sure what everyone is getting worked up about.
You clearly stated that Captain America was a better MA than Shiva, Richard Dragon and Shang Chi.
😬
It's simply not true.
It's like me saying that Namor is stronger than Thor, Superman and Captain Marvel.
He's up there....but not UP there.
Originally posted by Draco69
I don't have the exact scan. But you can find Batman's here:http://members.tripod.com/agent0x7/dkskill1.html
It also has references to Shiva and Dragon.
Whoopee. Zaran's comment on Captain's skills is just hyperbole.
Tell me this: When did Captain America EVER have the time to study EVERY form of combat? Who taught him? When did he learn? How did he learn?
He got the serum. Got some training. Fought in WWII. Got frozen. Got Revived. Joined the Avengers.
Where's the training?
I'm sorry but saying Captain America possesses more martial arts knowledge and skills than Lady Shiva, Richard Dragon, Iron Fist, Shang Chi and Cassandra Cain with the evidence of the heresey of one supervillain is just ludicrious.
Not one forum on the internet would attest to your opinion.
I assume most of the training, like all MU fighters, occurs off panel.
so it may be more like-
got the serum. received extensive training as the only successful recipient of the super soldier project. continued training through combat operations during world war II. got frozen. got revived. joined the avengers. Continued extensive training, while participating in life or death combat vs. every other serious practitioner of the martial arts including but not limited to batroc, iron fist, shang chi, taskmaster, elektra, etc.
you make it sound like he just sat on his ass after getting the serum, which is silly.
when did batman have the time to master 120=whatever forms of martial arts? he's only about 30.
this is comics. it doesn't matter "when" it occurred, the only thing that matters is that it's been established by the writers that it's the case.
Originally posted by Draco69
I don't have the exact scan. But you can find Batman's here:http://members.tripod.com/agent0x7/dkskill1.html
It also has references to Shiva and Dragon.
I don't need examples of Batman being skilled, I know Batman is skilled, I've been reading his book for as long as I can remember. What I need is on panel proof that Batman knows every earth based fighting style... which I didn't see on that page. Now, admittedly, I only read the captions describing the scans and not the scans, but read anything close to "Batman knows every fighting style"
Originally posted by Draco69
Whoopee. Zaran's comment on Captain's skills is just hyperbole.
You only think it is a hyperbole because you don't agree with it. Zaran was looking to regain reputation that was destroyed by Shang Chi, he realised he had to defeat someone more skilled then Chi, and he set out to beat Captain America. Why would he make a hyperbole in that situation? Exaggeration wasn't going to him get his reputation back.
Originally posted by Draco69
Tell me this: When did Captain America EVER have the time to study EVERY form of combat? Who taught him? When did he learn? How did he learn?He got the serum. Got some training. Fought in WWII. Got frozen. Got Revived. Joined the Avengers.
Where's the training?
I'm sorry but saying Captain America possesses more martial arts knowledge and skills than Lady Shiva, Richard Dragon, Iron Fist, Shang Chi and Cassandra Cain with the evidence of the heresey of one supervillain is just ludicrious.
Not one forum on the internet would attest to your opinion.
Captain America's mind is enhanced and he is a natural fighter. How many years would he need to master every martial art? Realistically he could never do it, but this is a comic. Shang Chi had mastered every martial art by his 20s (might have even been late teens), now sure he was trained from birth but Captain America, with his enhanced mind, can learn at much faster rate, and he is virtually tireless. The rate at which he would traverse through fight training would be tremendous... and how is it more of a stretch the 30 something Batman being as skilled as he is?
Captain America is the best fighter in Marvel, and he is better then Shiva, Dragon or Chi.
Originally posted by srankmissingninPsst. You forgot to add that by corollary you think Elektra and Wolverine are more skilled Lady Shiva and Richard Dragon, and are likewise the most skilled in all of the Omniverse.
Captain America is the best fighter in Marvel, and he is better then Shiva, Dragon or Chi.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Captain America is the best fighter in Marvel, and he is better then Shiva, Dragon or Chi.
Bullshit,plain and simple.
Captain America is in no way superior to them when it comes to skill,Those three are top street-levellers due to their Skill,Cap is Due to enhancements and Skill.You wanna know why that guy went after Captain America?because he's Captain f*cking America,one of the best known heroes,beat him and your set for life.
Dragon is in a class all of his own when it comes to MA.Captain America is Batman level in skill,but he doesn't touch on Dragon,no way no how.
Originally posted by Space M ummy
I assume most of the training, like all MU fighters, occurs off panel.
When? When a master martial artist gets training usually they spent YEARS and YEARS getting training.
We usually see the typical "Ryu walking scene" where said MA travels around the world learning under many different teachers and coming back home finally after a decade with a beard or a new hairdo.
Cap?
He didn't get this treatment. Nor did he simply have the time.
so it may be more like-
Originally posted by Space M ummy
got the serum. received extensive training as the only successful recipient of the super soldier project. continued training through combat operations during world war II.
Received training. By who? How long? There WAS a war going on. I mean, I don't think the guy had the time to travel to China to train under stick.
How long did WWII last? About 6 years. And that's not including when America got involved. Which makes his training time even less.
Cap got the serum AFTER Pearl Harbor. And he didn't have any MA training up to that point. So from 1941 to roughly 1945, he had training and he fought in WWII.
I guess Wildcat must be a master MA too!
So let's look at the facts:
Cap had time to master EVERY form of combat in less than four years?
WHILE leading the Invaders in WWII?
WHILE fighting a war?
😐
Originally posted by Space M ummy
got frozen. got revived. joined the avengers. Continued extensive training, while participating in life or death combat vs. every other serious practitioner of the martial arts including but not limited to batroc, iron fist, shang chi, taskmaster, elektra, etc.
That's nice. It's not really different from any other superhero career though...
😐
Minus the frozen part...
Originally posted by Space M ummy
you make it sound like he just sat on his ass after getting the serum, which is silly.
No, I'm saying he had about four years to train during WWII...on top of fighting the said war and leading the Invaders.
Not alot of time to devote to MAs....
Originally posted by Space M ummy
when did batman have the time to master 120=whatever forms of martial arts? he's only about 30.
Actually he's pushing 40...or 60 if you count the Lazarus Pit occasion.
Batman's actually around 60 years old in reality.
He's devoted about 20 years to training.
Certainly not belivable. But a hell of a lot better than four years during a flippin World War...
Originally posted by Space M ummy
this is comics. it doesn't matter "when" it occurred, the only thing that matters is that it's been established by the writers that it's the case.
We also use logic. Shiva's been doing MAs since BIRTH.
😬
If
Shiva > Batman
and
Shang Chi = Shiva
then
Shang Chi > Batman
Now
Wolverine > Shang Chi
and
Wolverine = Captain America (more or less)
so...
Captain America > Shang Chi
and
Captian America > Dragon/Shiva/Turner
😎
But seriously though, I know a lot of people feel compelled to throw Batman a bone and say he is as skilled or more skilled the Captain America... but why? There is nothing to suggest that Batman is on the same level as Captain America. Captain America is number one in marvel, many MAS have said as much... where as Batman is lucky to make the top five in DC. Why are these people better then Captain America, a guy who has been said to be the best and who has been said to have mastered every known fighting style? Why? It makes no sense. The only reason being that people are desperately trying to grasp on to the notion that Batman = Captain America... which is base on nothing.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I don't need examples of Batman being skilled, I know Batman is skilled, I've been reading his book for as long as I can remember. What I need is on panel proof that Batman knows every earth based fighting style... which I didn't see on that page. Now, admittedly, I only read the captions describing the scans and not the scans, but read anything close to "Batman knows every fighting style"
Look harder...
😐
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You only think it is a hyperbole because you don't agree with it. Zaran was looking to regain reputation that was destroyed by Shang Chi, he realised he had to defeat someone more skilled then Chi, and he set out to beat Captain America. Why would he make a hyperbole in that situation? Exaggeration wasn't going to him get his reputation back.
It is hyperbole. And the only proof you have that Cap learned every form of martial arts there is.
Batman's said the same thing about David Cain.
Shado said the same thing about Green Arrow.
Shrike said the same thing about Nightwing.
And around it goes.
If I had a dime for everytime an opponent has said:
"Good lord! He's the toughest opponent I've ever fought!"
or
"He's a master martial artist!"
It's character opinion. So what?
Your example is pretty much hearsey. A villain inclined to his own personal bias.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Captain America's mind is enhanced and he is a natural fighter. How many years would he need to master every martial art? Realistically he could never do it, but this is a comic. Shang Chi had mastered every martial art by his 20s (might have even been late teens), now sure he was trained from birth but Captain America, with his enhanced mind, can learn at much faster rate, and he is virtually tireless. The rate at which he would traverse through fight training would be tremendous... and how is it more of a stretch the 30 something Batman being as skilled as he is?
Enhanced mind? They bumped up his IQ a bit. That's all.
😬
Batman's a friggin genius. You're saying that Batman's genius plus 20 odd years of training makes him INFERIOR to Captain America's non-genius mind and oh about four years of training during WWII and whatever time he could spare when he wasn't training?
😐
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Captain America is the best fighter in Marvel, and he is better then Shiva, Dragon or Chi.
Cap isn't the best fighter in Marvel.....
😐
And he isn't better than Shiva, Dragon or Chi in MAs.
Dear god.
🙄