Originally posted by Fuddle
He is has no limits of what he is capable of doing, but what he does has limits. Only as far as his mind can reach, so vast is his power.If he expanded his mind, he will expand his powers. However he has a great mind and that takes him a long way.
Kil'Jaeden omniponent? I will quote 'Rise of the Horde'
But he has potentials of being so.
theres no feats to consider this, what possible makes you think he has no limits on what he is capable of doing, you contradidcted yourself in the same post....he has no limits on what he is capable of doing..but what he does has limits.....wtf indeed
no he has no potenstial of being omnipotent
Originally posted by EvilAngel
No, he was possess by a dark titan.
Yes, he was. He although was in control of Medivh's mind and that is exactly how the link between Lich King and Arthas works 🙂
The only difference is that Arthas made the choice 😛
Originally posted by Burning thought
theres no feats to consider this, what possible makes you think he has no limits on what he is capable of doing, you contradidcted yourself in the same post....he has no limits on what he is capable of doing..but what he does has limits.....wtf indeedno he has no potenstial of being omnipotent
Sigh. You do not have the most extended vocabulary there is, eh? 😛
Contradict
To assert or express the opposite of (a statement).
Capable
Permitting an action to be performed: an error capable of remedy: Potentiality
Does
To carry out; commit
Just because he has the potentials of something, does not neccessarily mean that he can do it at that very moment 🙂
He has great potentials of being omnipotent. If you are so certain that he has no potentials, prove it. Since you OBVIOUOSLY have read the books that involve Kil'Jaeden and you OBVIOUSLY know so much about him.
(I was being sarcastic there 😛)
Originally posted by FuddleSigh. You do not have the most extended vocabulary there is, eh? 😛
Contradict
To assert or express the opposite of (a statement).
Capable
Permitting an action to be performed: an error capable of remedy: Potentiality
Does
To carry out; commitJust because he has the potentials of something, does not neccessarily mean that he can do it at that very moment 🙂
He has great potentials of being omnipotent. If you are so certain that he has no potentials, prove it. Since you OBVIOUOSLY have read the books that involve Kil'Jaeden and you OBVIOUSLY know so much about him.
(I was being sarcastic there 😛)
erm yeh, i know what it means, you said he cannot, then you say he can...thats contradition..
he does not have limits, but then he does, also if he has the potenstials whats stopping him? potenstials of waht exactley?
no your being foolish there, i have not read the books, but i know him well enough to know he would not be Omnipotent, there is no force in Warcraft that is, let alone an Erdedar becoming powerful enough to wipe away the Warcraft universe in one stroke, there is no possible potential....you cant prove a negative, its your point to prove since its your statement he has the potenstial to become ominpotent
Originally posted by Burning thought
erm yeh, i know what it means, you said he cannot, then you say he can...thats contradition..he does not have limits, but then he does, also if he has the potenstials whats stopping him? potenstials of waht exactley?
no your being foolish there, i have not read the books, but i know him well enough to know he would not be Omnipotent, there is no force in Warcraft that is, let alone an Erdedar becoming powerful enough to wipe away the Warcraft universe in one stroke, there is no possible potential....you cant prove a negative, its your point to prove since its your statement he has the potenstial to become ominpotent
It is not contradicting. You just do not use your mind as well as you could 😛
To be capable of one thing, does not mean one can do it at one specific moment. Take Gul'Dan for example: He was capable of learning warlock magic. He had the potentials, but he did not know it for a long time of his life, until it came to him.
What is keeping him back, is his mind. He may be intellectual, but so far can his mind not handle a power so huge as omnipotence. He is limited to the boundries of his mind (Shadows and Light) He can not be omnipotent, because he does not know how it works. He can destroy a human with the wave of his finger, because he knows how to do so. He can not destroy a planet, because he does not know how to do so. However if he knows how to destroy a planet in theory, he is capable to actually do it. But now he does not know, therefore his mind has to expand to new levels before he can become somewhat near omnipotence.
You know him well enough? You claimed he persuaded Ner'Zhul across worlds. You claimed he has just about no powers, simply because he has not been using them. That he actually NEEDED the orcs to fulfill his means.
Kil'Jaeden could obliterate Azeroth. Not the planet itself, but no character on Azeroth would be capable of stopping him. Look at Archimonde and then think for a while. What would someone that has greater powers than Archimonde be capable of pulling trough? Archimonde was defeated only because he was arrogant, reckless and depended too much on his invournability.
You are asking how an Eredar would be capable of it? How would an ORC ever be capable of becoming more powerful than an Eredar?
A normal Eredar exceed a normal orc by far. Kil'Jaeden is no normal Eredar. Ner'Zhul on the other hand, is a somewhat normal Orc.
No, you are right. There is no omnipotent being in warcraft. That does not mean there can not be one. I am not saying that Kil'Jaeden will ever become omnipotent, since his shade will be fightable in the next expansion. However, that does not disprove the fact that he has the potentials.
Originally posted by Fuddle
It is not contradicting. You just do not use your mind as well as you could 😛
To be capable of one thing, does not mean one can do it at one specific moment. Take Gul'Dan for example: He was capable of learning warlock magic. He had the potentials, but he did not know it for a long time of his life, until it came to him.What is keeping him back, is his mind. He may be intellectual, but so far can his mind not handle a power so huge as omnipotence. He is limited to the boundries of his mind (Shadows and Light) He can not be omnipotent, because he does not know how it works. He can destroy a human with the wave of his finger, because he knows how to do so. He can not destroy a planet, because he does not know how to do so. However if he knows how to destroy a planet in theory, he is capable to actually do it. But now he does not know, therefore his mind has to expand to new levels before he can become somewhat near omnipotence.
You know him well enough? You claimed he persuaded Ner'Zhul across worlds. You claimed he has just about no powers, simply because he has not been using them. That he actually NEEDED the orcs to fulfill his means.
Kil'Jaeden could obliterate Azeroth. Not the planet itself, but no character on Azeroth would be capable of stopping him. Look at Archimonde and then think for a while. What would someone that has greater powers than Archimonde be capable of pulling trough? Archimonde was defeated only because he was arrogant, reckless and depended too much on his invournability.
You are asking how an Eredar would be capable of it? How would an ORC ever be capable of becoming more powerful than an Eredar?
A normal Eredar exceed a normal orc by far. Kil'Jaeden is no normal Eredar. Ner'Zhul on the other hand, is a somewhat normal Orc.
No, you are right. There is no omnipotent being in warcraft. That does not mean there can not be one. I am not saying that Kil'Jaeden will ever become omnipotent, since his shade will be fightable in the next expansion. However, that does not disprove the fact that he has the potentials.
you do not use yours at all it seems 😛 thats what you said regardless, but maybe its because you did not use best english and put it in an odd way, for example you said "he is has no limits"
that is an irrelevent example, capable of warlock magic but not until it came to him? makes no sense ,the potensial of a being is judged when that being attempts something, it doesnt know it has the pottenstial, nobody would know Guldan has the potential until he had actually showed ability in doing it or anything close.
Its like saying to any human, no matter how dumb or smart you have the potential just because your a human and can learn...saying to a farmer who has worked on a field for years and known only a farm life has the potential but then looking at it that way, any Orc would have the potential.
can this be proven please, that if he knows how something works he can do it with his magic...his magic has no limits? sounds like rubbish to me....And no he will never become near omnipotent, that would mean almost everything but omnipotence which Killy would never be able to handle, hed prob end up setting up plans and like usuall theyd collaps, only theyd collapse on top of him if he tried to grasp omniptence
no character? another no proof rubbish again....Yes i look at Archimonde, his bones are lieing on Mount Hyjal..erm...perhaps keep his flesh a little long and lay across mount Hyjal before turning to bone, you tell me with your uber knowledge of Kiljaeden, what powers does he have over Archimonde? all you have is that he is stronger or greater but do you have an amount, what if Archimonde was just a 6 but Killy a 7, the diffrence would not be so great, what do you have that possibly makes you think he would stomp Azeroths beings. Ofc once again this is an assumption of yours without weight, you say it too definatley. How do you think he would defeat Elune? the Goddess, all the Aspects?
erm, through the unwitting help from an Eredar? Lich King is no Orc any longer......however an Undead King and being of the spiritual, hell he could be stronger for all we know. He certainly played a hand Kiljaeden didnt think of, Unerestimating Lich King Kiljaeden does.
Ner'zhul is a normal orc.......okieeeeee i suggest you read through your own informaton
Originally posted by Burning thought
can this be proven please, that if he knows how something works he can do it with his magic...his magic has no limits? sounds like rubbish to me....And no he will never become near omnipotent, that would mean almost everything but omnipotence which Killy would never be able to handle, hed prob end up setting up plans and like usuall theyd collaps, only theyd collapse on top of him if he tried to grasp omniptence
The only planes that have failed for him so far is his way to deal with the lich king and the orcs, two mistakes since he was recruited by Sargares for more then 12000 years ago...
no character? another no proof rubbish again....Yes i look at Archimonde, his bones are lieing on Mount Hyjal..erm...perhaps keep his flesh a little long and lay across mount Hyjal before turning to bone, you tell me with your uber knowledge of Kiljaeden, what powers does he have over Archimonde? all you have is that he is stronger or greater but do you have an amount, what if Archimonde was just a 6 but Killy a 7, the diffrence would not be so great, what do you have that possibly makes you think he would stomp Azeroths beings. Ofc once again this is an assumption of yours without weight, you say it too definatley. How do you think he would defeat Elune? the Goddess, all the Aspects?[/B]
In the Eredar sociaty all hierarchy is purely based on the magical capacity of the being in question the fact alone that Kil'Jaeden was selected above Archimonde should IMO give a clear view of just how strong he is. Elune is ranking around the same place as Malorne and he was defeated by Archimonde, without leaving a lasting mark on the eredar.
erm, through the unwitting help from an Eredar? Lich King is no Orc any longer......however an Undead King and being of the spiritual, hell he could be stronger for all we know. He certainly played a hand Kiljaeden didnt think of, Unerestimating Lich King Kiljaeden does. [/B]
He hasn't underestimated him but he hadn't accounted to maiev seeking out Illidan, els the Lich King would be dead, and Azeroth with him.
Also Burning Thought with basically a word the Lich kings authority over the undead was removed by Archimonde.
Originally posted by Utrigita
The only planes that have failed for him so far is his way to deal with the lich king and the orcs, two mistakes since he was recruited by Sargares for more then 12000 years ago...In the Eredar sociaty all hierarchy is purely based on the magical capacity of the being in question the fact alone that Kil'Jaeden was selected above Archimonde should IMO give a clear view of just how strong he is. Elune is ranking around the same place as Malorne and he was defeated by Archimonde, without leaving a lasting mark on the eredar.
He hasn't underestimated him but he hadn't accounted to maiev seeking out Illidan, els the Lich King would be dead, and Azeroth with him.
Also Burning Thought with basically a word the Lich kings authority over the undead was removed by Archimonde.
"shrug" although it "sounds" impressive, how can we be sure..maybe they are simply not menstioned, if on this one world he has had several plans gone wrong, we cant assume on every planet he has not had plans go wrong...
i respect his ranking and his "possible" power but every being on Azeroth i doubt, also what gives Elune this ranking is she not a Goddess who could overpower most..Darth and I i feel had that idea, Darth seemed to think highly of her
true but everything seems very conveniant, the Lich King seems incredibly intelligent, he seems to know things across the world, for example did he not talk to Kelthuzard across the far reaches, corrupting him. He seems to be able to see the whole world almost.
thats fair enough but thats like tkaing away necromantic magic from undead beings, defeating the lich king himself however at the same time as him being fusion form now, being so much more powerful than before, id certainly never for definate put Killy over him
Originally posted by Burning thought
"shrug" although it "sounds" impressive, how can we be sure..maybe they are simply not menstioned, if on this one world he has had several plans gone wrong, we cant assume on every planet he has not had plans go wrong...
If there had been more then one incident then he would have been dead before the invason of the orcs. Sargares doesn't tolerate more then one failer.
i respect his ranking and his "possible" power but every being on Azeroth i doubt, also what gives Elune this ranking is she not a Goddess who could overpower most..Darth and I i feel had that idea, Darth seemed to think highly of her [/B]
His possible power is well documentated to be above Archimondes. Ask Darth if he cannot post his stats from the Shadows and Light, I would love to but I doesn't have a scanner. Elune is said to be on the same level as Malorne according to what I know and Malorne powerful as he was, was defeated by Archimonde.
true but everything seems very conveniant, the Lich King seems incredibly intelligent, he seems to know things across the world, for example did he not talk to Kelthuzard across the far reaches, corrupting him. He seems to be able to see the whole world almost. [/B]
You think that is impressive telepathy??? During the war of the ancient Archimonde contacted every demon in Azeroth to inform them that the dragons was on there way, and Malfurion which is below the Lich King was capable of seeing all of Northren while being located in Lordaron. And a fact that helped Ner'Zhul was the conveniant circumstance that Kelthuzad was already studying the necromatic arts.
thats fair enough but thats like tkaing away necromantic magic from undead beings, defeating the lich king himself however at the same time as him being fusion form now, being so much more powerful than before, id certainly never for definate put Killy over him [/B]
How do you know that his fusion form made him more powerful? (dumb Question but I would like to ask you this)
Originally posted by Utrigita
If there had been more then one incident then he would have been dead before the invason of the orcs. Sargares doesn't tolerate more then one failer.His possible power is well documentated to be above Archimondes. Ask Darth if he cannot post his stats from the Shadows and Light, I would love to but I doesn't have a scanner. Elune is said to be on the same level as Malorne according to what I know and Malorne powerful as he was, was defeated by Archimonde.
You think that is impressive telepathy??? During the war of the ancient Archimonde contacted every demon in Azeroth to inform them that the dragons was on there way, and Malfurion which is below the Lich King was capable of seeing all of Northren while being located in Lordaron. And a fact that helped Ner'Zhul was the conveniant circumstance that Kelthuzad was already studying the necromatic arts.
How do you know that his fusion form made him more powerful? (dumb Question but I would like to ask you this)
"shrug" that may be true but ime sure Sarg would not destroy his greatest general, also what makes you so sure he would take out killy without any thought, although he is a rogue titan who wants to destroy, ime sure he would understand destroying his top general is not a good strategy
oh i belive he is above archimonde, but i am interested in seeing how much. Hm well if she really is the same level as malorne it is odd...she seems so much more powerful, like a true deity.
yes, although what you said to me does not seem that impressive, no more impressive than Lich kings initial link with all his undead, he could undoubtably do the same with his undead, He seems to be able to see beings across the planet, like hes watching over all events.
🙂 it is a little odd, mainly because why would he become weaker when he gets out of the throne, if anything i think the throne is more likely to be imprisoning his power, now he is free, he should be able to manipualte his power far greater. Also the quote
Warcraft 3 frozen throne ending
In that moment, Ner'zhul and Arthas' spirits fused into a single mighty being, just as the Lich King had always planned. And thus one of the most powerful entities on Azeroth was born.
its unlikely he would become one of the most powerful entities born, if he had been stronger before would it? 😄
also please answer me this, he is considered this Lich king to be most powerful being on Azeroth, so....surely if his power is the greatest on azeroth, beyond Aspects, Dragons and all the other mighty beings, possibly even Elune (only arguably she does not excist on the world so to speak). Surely if he has more power than any being on Azeroth, he could of used this power to destroy Archimonde even more than Malfurions summon the Earth magics. If his power is greater than anything on Azeroth surely Killy would not stop him so easily if at all, even if he is stronger than Archi.
Originally posted by Burning thought
you do not use yours at all it seems 😛 thats what you said regardless, but maybe its because you did not use best english and put it in an odd way, for example you said "he is has no limits"
that is an irrelevent example, capable of warlock magic but not until it came to him? makes no sense ,the potensial of a being is judged when that being attempts something, it doesnt know it has the pottenstial, nobody would know Guldan has the potential until he had actually showed ability in doing it or anything close.
Its like saying to any human, no matter how dumb or smart you have the potential just because your a human and can learn...saying to a farmer who has worked on a field for years and known only a farm life has the potential but then looking at it that way, any Orc would have the potential.can this be proven please, that if he knows how something works he can do it with his magic...his magic has no limits? sounds like rubbish to me....And no he will never become near omnipotent, that would mean almost everything but omnipotence which Killy would never be able to handle, hed prob end up setting up plans and like usuall theyd collaps, only theyd collapse on top of him if he tried to grasp omniptence
no character? another no proof rubbish again....Yes i look at Archimonde, his bones are lieing on Mount Hyjal..erm...perhaps keep his flesh a little long and lay across mount Hyjal before turning to bone, you tell me with your uber knowledge of Kiljaeden, what powers does he have over Archimonde? all you have is that he is stronger or greater but do you have an amount, what if Archimonde was just a 6 but Killy a 7, the diffrence would not be so great, what do you have that possibly makes you think he would stomp Azeroths beings. Ofc once again this is an assumption of yours without weight, you say it too definatley. How do you think he would defeat Elune? the Goddess, all the Aspects?
erm, through the unwitting help from an Eredar? Lich King is no Orc any longer......however an Undead King and being of the spiritual, hell he could be stronger for all we know. He certainly played a hand Kiljaeden didnt think of, Unerestimating Lich King Kiljaeden does.
Ner'zhul is a normal orc.......okieeeeee i suggest you read through your own informaton
I will not even begin to counter that. Get back to me when you have read the book and got some knowledge about the characters you discuss 🙂
Originally posted by Burning thought
"shrug" that may be true but ime sure Sarg would not destroy his greatest general, also what makes you so sure he would take out killy without any thought, although he is a rogue titan who wants to destroy, ime sure he would understand destroying his top general is not a good strategy
Kil'Jaeden wasn't his General Archimonde was Kil'Jaeden was the one tasked with expanding the legion, a task he filled to the letter and until the war of the ancient the Burning Legion hadn't met defeat in there unholy crusade, but the failure at the war of the ancient was placed on Kil'Jaeden and he knew that if he failed again he wouldn't get a second chance. And if Sargares wouldn't have died then Kil'Jaeden would already be death.
oh i belive he is above archimonde, but i am interested in seeing how much. Hm well if she really is the same level as malorne it is odd...she seems so much more powerful, like a true deity.[/B]
How many showings does she have since you say that she seems more powerful, also Wowwiki clearly states that even the Legion invaded she was powerless to stop it hmm...
yes, although what you said to me does not seem that impressive, no more impressive than Lich kings initial link with all his undead, he could undoubtably do the same with his undead, He seems to be able to see beings across the planet, like hes watching over all events. [/B]
Thats because he is constantly linked with the undead Archimonde on the other hand isn't constantly linked with his demons and when the contact first is broken then the Lich King cannot restore the connection thats not very impressive for a deity of such power.
🙂 it is a little odd, mainly because why would he become weaker when he gets out of the throne, if anything i think the throne is more likely to be imprisoning his power, now he is free, he should be able to manipualte his power far greater. Also the quote [/B]
It's funny because the Crystal was the item that infused him with his increased power in the first place, one should think that now that the Crystal is no longer expanding his power it would came to a halt.
its unlikely he would become one of the most powerful entities born, if he had been stronger before would it? 😄 [/B]
yes it would.
also please answer me this, he is considered this Lich king to be most powerful being on Azeroth, so....surely if his power is the greatest on azeroth, beyond Aspects, Dragons and all the other mighty beings, possibly even Elune (only arguably she does not excist on the world so to speak). Surely if he has more power than any being on Azeroth, he could of used this power to destroy Archimonde even more than Malfurions summon the Earth magics. If his power is greater than anything on Azeroth surely Killy would not stop him so easily if at all, even if he is stronger than Archi. [/B]
he is said to be on of the most powerful aspects on Azeroth not the most powerful (I wish I could post his stats 🙁 ), to my knowlegde the Older Gods are still there, and Elune is said to be one of if not currently the most powerful deity on Azeroth and she was as earlier mentioned powerless to stop the Burning Legion during there the first invasion.
And this reference is given to Archimonde with the Lich King in mind.
One of the most powerful being ever to walk the world of Azeroth. His powers are further magnified and enhanced when Sargeras turned him into a warlock.
So the fact that the Lich King gets it isn't mindblowing seeing as Archimonde is mentioned as being one of the most powerful beings to walk Azeroth.
Originally posted by Fuddle
You build yourself up for disappointment 🙁
build myself up? now your simply being insulting as if you feel you know so much more than me that its absolutley impossible for LK even though we dont know his fusion powers to be anything on Killy...i think ill just ignore posts like this in the future, they are made to provoke i feel it unessery
Originally posted by Burning thought
build myself up? now your simply being insulting as if you feel you know so much more than me that its absolutley impossible for LK even though we dont know his fusion powers to be anything on Killy...i think ill just ignore posts like this in the future, they are made to provoke i feel it unessery
How was that provokative? I was trying to warn (help) you that you will become disappointed. I know what disappointment feels like (Not fun) and you think too highly about this man. I am just trying to warn you not to do so. It will bite you in the butt.
You seem to see Lich King as a godlike character. I am sorry, but he is just a horribly advanced Lich.
You seem to think Ner'Zhul was some kind of SuperOrc. I am sorry, but Ner'Zhul is a whimp.
Originally posted by MadMel
BT is right, we cannot know for sure how this fight can turn out...we do not know the full extent of eithers powers..
also, your greatly underating the lichking 😬
exactley Madmel
Fuddle i think its you with dreams of Killy becoming near omnipotent will be disapointed and it will probably be you who feels stunned when Blizzard decide to throw Killy against the wall and have LK destroy the last general of the Burning legion
you do not for all your book knowledge that you apprently have, have a grasp on the character that is the Lich King, also what do you mean Godlike? in Warcraft lore, technically LK is a God