Originally posted by starlock
I would not agree with this, maybe in the last 5 - 10 years or so, but in his first and following years. he was a team buster and clearly above supermans reach 😕
The Sentry might have originally been intended to be Galactus level but now he loses to Hulk and we all accept that. It's the same deal with Darkseid.
Originally posted by Tetragrammaton
As you said, that was a decade ago.The Sentry might have originally been intended to be Galactus level but now he loses to Hulk and we all accept that. It's the same deal with Darkseid.
No one ever said Sentry was Galactus level. Just because Wolverine comments during a fight with Sentry during Civil War - "Guy hits like friggin' Galactus" - doesn't mean he is. And that loss/stalemate against the uber-amped World War Hulk was PIS, considering that whole power-of-a-million-exploding-suns hyperbole. He never had trouble against Hulk in the past, considering the pacifying radiation he gave off that calmed Hulk.
There's a reason Darkseid's gotten the nickname 'Jobberseid' on this board for some years - for how he's made to look less powerful against Superman, thanks to Jeph Loeb and assorted DC editors. Here's hoping Final Crisis finally puts him up in his rightful place.
Sentry I don't have as much problem with. He's fairly new. Darkseid has come down considerably, but he was consistently Skyfather-esque for a long time as well. It's a dramatic shift over a long period of time, which is unfortunate because there was actually an established power level and character to destroy there (which they did)...which can't be said for Sentry, who is just now having his limits defined for the first time.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Sentry I don't have as much problem with. He's fairly new. Darkseid has come down considerably, but he was consistently Skyfather-esque for a long time as well. It's a dramatic shift over a long period of time, which is unfortunate because there was actually an established power level and character to destroy there (which they did)...which can't be said for Sentry, who is just now having his limits defined for the first time.
Every writer who has commented on the two characters says the two are virtually equals.
Originally posted by Cerpin Taxt
What I'm saying here is that it's ridiculous that after these years, people still try and say losing to Superman is jobbing. It isn't it. It's his currently established level. Nobody has to like it but calling it jobbing is ridiculous.Every writer who has commented on the two characters says the two are virtually equals.
Cosigned. People can ***** and moan all they want. DC considers the two to be fairly close in overall power.
Originally posted by SoljerHowever DC also has Superman fight demon lords in their own dimension, Imperiex, Dominus, pantheon gods, world/galaxy/universe conquerors. So to say him and Darkseid are equals... take it as you will, since they write him to beat people in any teir... And other top tiers, like Wonder Woman, can't even take Darkseid's henchmen down effectively let alone Darkseid himself. Just to show the power gap between a top tier, and a serious Superman/Darkseid.
Cosigned. People can ***** and moan all they want. DC considers the two to be fairly close in overall power.
Originally posted by Cerpin Taxt
What I'm saying here is that it's ridiculous that after these years, people still try and say losing to Superman is jobbing. It isn't it. It's his currently established level. Nobody has to like it but calling it jobbing is ridiculous.Every writer who has commented on the two characters says the two are virtually equals.
Fair enough. I agree. Like others, I don't like it but I agree with your take on it.
Originally posted by tjcoady
For the Sentry stalemating Galactus thing: I'm willing to take Spiderman literally on that. But we don't know the circumstances. Maybe he had tech from Reed. Or maybe he stalemated him for like twenty minutes until the Avengers showed up. Or Galactus was hella weak at the time.
I believe him too. But hell, Quasar once held off Galactus without straining himself for a while while the FF ran around and did tech stuff. Stalemating someone for a while doesn't put you in their class. It just means you can play defense against a superior opponent for a while.
Originally posted by DigiMark007Sure, it may have happened, but with no context, it holds no bearing over a forum debate, yet people try to throw it in.
Fair enough. I agree. Like others, I don't like it but I agree with your take on it.I believe him too. But hell, Quasar once held off Galactus without straining himself for a while while the FF ran around and did tech stuff. Stalemating someone for a while doesn't put you in their class. It just means you can play defense against a superior opponent for a while.
Originally posted by Juntai
However DC also has Superman fight demon lords in their own dimension, Imperiex, Dominus, pantheon gods, world/galaxy/universe conquerors. So to say him and Darkseid are equals... take it as you will, since they write him to beat people in any teir... And other top tiers, like Wonder Woman, can't even take Darkseid's henchmen down effectively let alone Darkseid himself. Just to show the power gap between a top tier, and a serious Superman/Darkseid.
For the love of...
Superman doesn't take on someone like Imperiex or the Anti-Monitor ON HIS OWN. He's got a whole army of super-powered help fighting with him.
And what DC writer ever said Superman & Darkseid are nearly equals?
Joe Casey? He was a nut for saying "I just think Superman's a character who does impossible, ridiculous feats!" That's the kind of writing that got Pre-Crisis Supes erased from history(thanks to weak sales) & got things rebooted.
At best, Darkseid says Supes' power rivals his own; that's as far as he goes.
He can give Darkseid a fight, but he's not his equal if things were allowed to be true on paper.
Originally posted by roughriderScrew what the writers say...Superman beating him the crap out of him the last 4 times or so they fought man to man a pretty clear indication they're close to equals.
For the love of...
Superman doesn't take on someone like Imperiex or the Anti-Monitor ON HIS OWN. He's got a whole army of super-powered help fighting with him.
And what DC writer ever said Superman & Darkseid are nearly equals?
Joe Casey? He was a nut for saying "I just think Superman's a character who does impossible, ridiculous feats!" That's the kind of writing that got Pre-Crisis Supes erased from history(thanks to weak sales) & got things rebooted.
At best, Darkseid says Supes' power rivals his own; that's as far as he goes.
He can give Darkseid a fight, but he's not his equal if things were allowed to be true on paper.
Superman had no help against Blaze in her own dimension. In which she weilded magic against him, and had total control of the realm.
Superman couldn't have protected Earth without the others, but Superman was certainly the main force against Imperiex. And is the one that ended it.
Superman has defeated other pantheon gods as well. As has Darkseid.
But that wasn't the point, this was;
"So to say him and Darkseid are equals... take it as you will, since they write him to beat people in any teir..." - meaning Darkseid is also heads and shoulders above.
When Supes beats Darkseid, it's not Darkseid being punked, it's just that Superman is just plainly that powerful, a clear indication of which is Darkseid's henchmen pounding out other top tiers.
It's not about how powerful Supes and DS are. It's the just the relationship that exists between a superhero and his arch nemesis.
That's why I brought up Sinestro and Hal. When Sinestro shows up, nobody touches him except Hal.
Everybody here gets so caught up in the Vs. idea they forgot how comic books actually work.
I think Jun and Val have this on the money. It's both a case of Hero vs. primary Villain, and Superman really is that freaking powerful.
He's beaten a kryptonian skyfather with a sunamp, Darkseid, Imperiex Probes, the JLA, Arion in a recent issue, etc.
There is a very good reason that he's called the most powerful superhero in comics.
People say Hulk has dynamic power levels, but he's got nothing on Superman. Superman has punched his way through Death. fear
To quote Soljer's paraphrase of Superman during DOTNG: "I hit shit, it goes down!" 😂
Besides, in case you haven't noticed, the Legion and PC history are both back. And according to Geoff Johns, 'It's all canon.' Pre-crisis madness has returned. evillaugh
Next up for Superman?....Atlas
http://www.comicbookresources.com/images/solicits/dccomics/200807/dcu/SM-Cv678_solicit.jpg
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Oh and on-topic:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/images/solicits/dccomics/200807/dcdirect/SMvDARK_Stat.jpg
Originally posted by TricksterPriest👆
I think Jun and Val have this on the money. It's both a case of Hero vs. primary Villain, and Superman really is that freaking powerful.He's beaten a kryptonian skyfather with a sunamp, Darkseid, Imperiex Probes, the JLA, Arion in a recent issue, etc.
There is a very good reason that he's called the most powerful superhero in comics.
People say Hulk has dynamic power levels, but he's got nothing on Superman. Superman has punched his way through Death. fear
To quote Soljer's paraphrase of Superman during DOTNG: "I hit shit, it goes down!" 😂
Besides, in case you haven't noticed, the Legion and PC history are both back. And according to Geoff Johns, 'It's all canon.' Pre-crisis madness has returned. evillaugh
And yeah, speaking of DotNG, Superman took on an amped up Kalibak[as we learned Darkseid made him stronger in Firestorm.], and went toe to toe with both Mister Miracle wielding the ALE, and then Infinity Man who was backed by the power of the Source, and fared well in all three battles. And Infinity Man appeared pretty equal to Mister Miracle, and we know the ALE - from the ORION series, is reality conquering power.
And this is just a handful of the amazing things he's done.
