DC's Countdown

Originally posted by Cerpin Taxt
It's not about how powerful Supes and DS are. It's the just the relationship that exists between a superhero and his arch nemesis.

That's why I brought up Sinestro and Hal. When Sinestro shows up, nobody touches him except Hal.

Everybody here gets so caught up in the Vs. idea they forgot how comic books actually work.

No, we're just getting reminded about how DC comics work when it comes to Superman. All this rampant power-ups he's getting doesn't seem to be helping DC in the sales department, as Marvel pulls further & further ahead. Have they forgotten how Superman ceased to be taken seriously in comics by the late 70's to mid 80's? Which is why they had the first Crisis to get rid of the silliness, and make Superman more believable.
And I thought his arch nemesis was Lex Luthor - funny how with all the power ups he still can't match Luthor's wits & planning.
And Orion is Darkseid main foe - it's still been foretold he will die by his hand.

Originally posted by roughrider
No, we're just getting reminded about how DC comics work when it comes to Superman. All this rampant power-ups he's getting doesn't seem to be helping DC in the sales department, as Marvel pulls further & further ahead.

Meanwhile at DC, GL fanboys are upset because the ring is being written as less powerful.

Please dude, Marvel is way more guilty of the "let's power everybody up" fiasco. Undeniable.

Originally posted by roughrider
Have they forgotten how Superman ceased to be taken seriously in comics by the late 70's to mid 80's? Which is why they had the first Crisis to get rid of the silliness, and make Superman more believable.

Stop making shit up, please.

Also, what the hell do you even know about how Superman was received in the 70s?

Originally posted by roughrider
And I thought his arch nemesis was Lex Luthor - funny how with all the power ups he still can't match Luthor's wits & planning.

Originally posted by roughrider
And Orion is Darkseid main foe - it's still been foretold he will die by his hand.

Technically Orion already did kill Darkseid already.

Originally posted by Cerpin Taxt
Every comic character is getting powered up these days. Take off the Marvel tinted glasses and you'll see Silver Surfer, Iron Man, Thor and Hulk are currently more powerful than their "classic" levels. The Sentry's only defining characteristics are being crazy and powerful. Wolverine is immortal. Genis got too powerful so Marvel decided to kill him off. Nova is exponentially more powerful. Juggernaut got his powers back. Hell, even Cyclops got his powers augmented.

Meanwhile at DC, GL fanboys are upset because the ring is being written as less powerful.

Please dude, Marvel is way more guilty of the "let's power everybody up" fiasco. Undeniable.

Because as we all know, the Crisis was all about powering down Superman. Nevermind that he was depowered YEARS before during the Sandman Superman Saga and was actually powered UP for the Crisis.

Stop making shit up, please.

Also, what the hell do you even know about how Superman was received in the 70s?

Irrelevant.

Sorry but Orion hasn't been relevant since Simonson left. Even if the prophecy is still valid, he's been pushed aside since the animated series.

I know about how Superman was received during that period (late 70's-mid 80's) because I was alive & actually reading comics during that time. I suspect I have an age advantage of 15-20 years on you.
And despite the popularity of the first two Superman films (by Superman III in 1983, that had started to wane), his sales had been slipping for years - because he was so powerful, readers just couldn't believe he could be realistically challenged (there's a whole respect thread dedicated to Pre-Crisis Superman that shows how ridiculous his power levels were getting) In the days of $0.60 comics, he had falled below 100,000 a month on his title - by contrast, X-Men was averaging 500,000 issues a month sold. This was right around the time the first Crisis was about to begin in 1985, tying in to DC's 50th Anniversary. His revamp (and power down) coincided with the revamps for Batman, Wonder Woman and the erasing of 50 years of jumbled, contradictory history that DC editors couldn't figure out anymore (as Marv Wolfman confessed in the pages of Crisis.) DC began this company wide revamp in 1980 when Jeanette Kahn took over, and recruited lots of talent from Marvel to work on their titles - in effect, changing their style to become more 'Marvel-like'. It also helped DC to be at the head of the British invasion, with writers from the UK ( Alan Moore paving the way for Neil Gaiman, Grant Morrison, Alan Grant & the rest) joining them to make DC a serious creative force in the industry.

Read some history before you start accusing someone of 'making shit up'.

Marvel's power-ups often fluctuate - the Hulk isn't staying at WWH levels, Juggernaut has gone up, back, back some more then returning. Silver Surfer has been at the same level since the beginning. Thor, it depends on whether Odin is around or not.
But even Hulk at his most powerful wouldn't jump into space to punch out someone like Galactus - a feat I suspect could happen if he was the flagship character at DC.

Originally posted by roughrider
I know about how Superman was received during that period (late 70's-mid 80's) because I was alive & actually reading comics during that time. I suspect I have an age advantage of 15-20 years on you.
And despite the popularity of the first two Superman films (by Superman III in 1983, that had started to wane), his sales had been slipping for years - because he was so powerful, readers just couldn't believe he could be realistically challenged (there's a whole respect thread dedicated to Pre-Crisis Superman that shows how ridiculous his power levels were getting) In the days of $0.60 comics, he had falled below 100,000 a month on his title - by contrast, X-Men was averaging 500,000 issues a month sold.

Originally posted by roughrider
This was right around the time the first Crisis was about to begin in 1985, tying in to DC's 50th Anniversary. His revamp (and power down) coincided with the revamps for Batman, Wonder Woman and the erasing of 50 years of jumbled, contradictory history that DC editors couldn't figure out anymore (as Marv Wolfman confessed in the pages of Crisis.) DC began this company wide revamp in 1980 when Jeanette Kahn took over, and recruited lots of talent from Marvel to work on their titles - in effect, changing their style to become more 'Marvel-like'. It also helped DC to be at the head of the British invasion, with writers from the UK ( Alan Moore paving the way for Neil Gaiman, Grant Morrison, Alan Grant & the rest) joining them to make DC a serious creative force in the industry.

Read some history before you start accusing someone of 'making shit up'.

Originally posted by roughrider
Marvel's power-ups often fluctuate - the Hulk isn't staying at WWH levels, Juggernaut has gone up, back, back some more then returning. Silver Surfer has been at the same level since the beginning. Thor, it depends on whether Odin is around or not. But even Hulk at his most powerful wouldn't jump into space to punch out someone like Galactus - a feat I suspect could happen if he was the flagship character at DC.

I knew you would make up an excuse for Marvel as soon as I posted that. Do you realize how irrational you are on this subject? It's ok for Marvel to power up every character under the sun for specific plot reasons but DC doing the same thing has you up in arms, calling out editorial, and just whining in general. You do this EVERY SINGLE TIME Superman does anything that can be considered a high feat.

Originally posted by Cerpin Taxt
His sales had slipped to be sure but blaming that on being "invincible" (which he wasn't) instead of the quality of writing is asinine.

Thanks for admitting the Crisis wasn't created just to power down Superman as you said earlier. Why do you think I accused you of making shit up in the first place?

YOU are the one who said the Crisis was created just to power down Superman. Go up and look at your earlier post -

'Because as we all know, the Crisis was all about powering down Superman.'

Look familiar? 😉

The problems of 'invincibility' that were inhibiting his sales - those aren't my words. It was the words of comic professionals writing for publications like WIZARD, DC staffers & people like John Byrne who came to DC for the revamp, saying these days "fans want a hero who grunts, sweats, and goes to the bathroom." (from TIME Magazine in 1988.) Superman would be super but not crazy, god-like powerful.

Try again.

Originally posted by roughrider
YOU are the one who said the Crisis was created just to power down Superman. Go up and look at your earlier post -

'Because as we all know, the Crisis was all about powering down Superman.'

Look familiar? 😉

Main Entry:
sar·casm Listen to the pronunciation of sarcasm
Pronunciation:
\ˈsär-ˌka-zəm\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
French or Late Latin; French sarcasme, from Late Latin sarcasmos, from Greek sarkasmos, from sarkazein to tear flesh, bite the lips in rage, sneer, from sark-, sarx flesh; probably akin to Avestan thwarəs- to cut
Date:
1550

1: a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain

2 a: a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual b: the use or language of sarcasm

Originally posted by roughrider
The problems of 'invincibility' that were inhibiting his sales - those aren't my words. It was the words of comic professionals writing for publications like WIZARD, DC staffers & people like John Byrne who came to DC for the revamp, saying these days "fans want a hero who grunts, sweats, and goes to the bathroom." (from TIME Magazine in 1988.) Superman would be super but not crazy, god-like powerful.

Try again.

The only thing I get from this discussion is this....

....Val change his username again.

....

w00t1!!

So did Mungi...anyone?..anyone?....you guys suck 😠

Originally posted by Cerpin Taxt

You're spinning your wheels here. Read my last again, CAREFULLY this time and get back to me.

Is Chicago just full of retards, or are you the lone one? 🙄

I've made my points about DC inconsistency with Superman & Darkseid.

I've got better things to do than breast-feed you all afternoon on history.
This is about Superman alone, not the rest of the DC cast & their high-end feat history.

Contradict yourself and then try to pass it off as sacasm? Whatever.

How did he make such a mistake of sticking his finger up??

Originally posted by Cerpin Taxt
It's not about how powerful Supes and DS are. It's the just the relationship that exists between a superhero and his arch nemesis.

That's why I brought up Sinestro and Hal. When Sinestro shows up, nobody touches him except Hal.

Everybody here gets so caught up in the Vs. idea they forgot how comic books actually work.

Guy had Sinestro in the ol' Alan Scott grip.

Originally posted by roughrider
Is Chicago just full of retards, or are you the lone one? 🙄

Originally posted by roughrider
I've made my points about DC inconsistency with Superman & Darkseid.

I've got better things to do than breast-feed you all afternoon on history.
This is about Superman alone, not the rest of the DC cast & their high-end feat history.

Originally posted by roughrider
Contradict yourself and then try to pass it off as sacasm? Whatever.

Haha.

😆 😆

How did anyone miss Val's sarcasm? Especially someone as (clearly) old and wise as you?

I think that image of Stan giving the middle finger was done after someone ask him:

"Hey Mr. Lee! What you think of the Spiderman movie franchise?"

Or perhaps upon hearing the reviews for "Who Wants to Be a Superhero?"

Or, "Mr Lee, what did you think of Civil War?" 😖hifty:

The prophecy is fulfilled ..

Spoiler:

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=217733

Long story short:

* Darkseid vs. Jimmy
* Ray finds the soul collector in Jimmy and destroys it
* Boom Tube opens and out comes..........ORION (he survived his "death" in DOTNG #6 after all...possibly connected to Ray destroying the collector)
* Orion fights Darkseid, rejecting help from Superman and others
* and the issue ends when Orion...........KILLS DARKSEID.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

* and the issue ends when Orion...........KILLS DARKSEID.[/spoiler]

Originally posted by Galan007
over