Wolverine vs. Spiderman last straw.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Spider-Man has been portrayed consistently to be faster then Wolverine. He does not only have HUNDREDS more dodging, speed etc. feats, but he has better ones too. Only feats Wolverine can match Spider-Man are hand speed feats. That is also because Wolverine uses his hands a lot more then Spidey.

I see if I can post some feats, but with me having 2500 Spider-Man scans right now, it's going to be hard to find the right ones...I'll probably get to it when I have properly ordered them. 😬

I think that the feats needed have been posted here already, though...

It's really redundant to use fights between the two as a comparision though. Spider-Man doesn't use NEARLY as much speed against Logan as he uses against Electro or Ock for example. Hell, I have seen him use more speed against Shocker too.

He NEVER has time or want to get into his "instinct mode" against Wolverine, really. You know the story, when he has fought against his archenemy a hundred times and they have done something that pisses him of REALLY bad and he just starts laying on them and completely focusing to his Spider-Sense, bouncing all over the place barely saying any jokes. He never fights like that against Wolverine.

why is it assumed that spiderman isn't using the samce facet of speed?

because he doesn't look that fast comparitively to wolverine..

No one's debating that spiderman has more dodging feats, or better dodging feats than wolverine.. he's got all the necessary tools to be marvel's number one bullet dodger.. but that doesn't make him faster than wolverine.. when you find some scans that highly outstrip wolverine's own feats of speed then there will be something to consider.

Originally posted by jinzin
why is it assumed that spiderman isn't using the samce facet of speed?

because he doesn't look that fast comparitively to wolverine..

No one's debating that spiderman has more dodging feats, or better dodging feats than wolverine.. he's got all the necessary tools to be marvel's number one bullet dodger.. but that doesn't make him faster than wolverine.. when you find some scans that highly outstrip wolverine's own feats of speed then there will be something to consider.

Slightly off topic, but Capt, you always bring up Wolverine Issue fourty where he dodges deadly beams of light while carrying a girl...

Explain? I have issue fourty in front of me right this second. It's Origins and Endings part 5. He talks to winter soldier a lot, and gets the Murasma blade.

But I don't see a single beam of deadly light.

Unless, of course, you mean a different volume or something, in which case, do be more specific.

I dont know about that Wolverine scan where he is shown dodging Cyclops' blast. Its a very nice scan but, Wolverine is a trained fighter, and I am pretty sure that one of the things he had to learn was to anticipate your opponents move before he makes it, hence the in close dodged blast.

Originally posted by Rick/Genis
You know what? You actually have a point there... speed isn't the same as Agile.

Exactly.. I can't for the sake of me understand how or why that gets so easily confused so damned often...
Wolverine's got hyeractive speed, enhanced agility, and enhanced senses with at least SOME degree of an early warning system for danger but he's not spiderman. He doesn't have precog and he's more likely to make mistakes or get hit by what he can't see, or what's coming up behind him etc etc...

People see spiderman dodging around 8 lazer beams and automatically decide that the feat proves he's the fastest street level alive.. but when you consider "in terms of sheer speed" as the standard.. those feats do nothing more than confirm that spiderman's good or better at dodging what other characters are also fast enough to dodge.. they don't prove he's faster though.

Originally posted by jinzin
Nope.

😂 I seem to remember pretty accurately he was pissed and rearing to go. Didn't seem like he had the claws out to play twister.

Originally posted by jinzin
exactly.. "what if wolverine was going for the kill"?
they answered that question in full.. 😬

You do realize that in that issue in question Wolverine only managed to win cause of his Hydra tech right? He was webbed to the wall, immobile and only got the jump on Spider-Man cause he teleported out. I'm pretty sure teleportation isn't one of Wolverine's base powers. What was the point of this anyway?

Originally posted by jinzin
Sidetracking again...
So you concede to the fact that just because venom hasn't taken out spiderman doesn't mean he can't...

Seriously, work on your critical reading. I ceded that Venom CAN kill Spider-Man because instances exist where in straight up confrontations he has outfought Spider-Man and then spared him. Not times where he's had to sneak up on Spider-Man, or when Spider-Man wasn't expecting a fight or even if Spider-Man suspected he was someone dressed like Venom for Christmas. Does Wolverine have any instances like this? No. Best you have is a Spider-Man who thinks he's just fighting some guy with claws

Originally posted by jinzin
all the same wolverine could react to that first strike no?

I'd say it was pretty obvious that first punch was just that. A first punch. The latter ones were obviously faster, hence the strobe with his fists. 🤨

Originally posted by jinzin
That wolverine could retaliate once hit.. 🤨

Because he did right?

Originally posted by jinzin
Well then i ask you again.. how does that prove spiderman's superior in speed?

You know, cause he was punching Logan repeatedly in his face with Wolverine unable to answer back.

Originally posted by jinzin
If wolverine let himself be hit.. it doesn't.

If being the operative word here.

Originally posted by jinzin
Which is EXACTLY why I'm talking about it's level of affect.. if wolverine LET himself be hit to begin with and then sat there and took punches smiling because they were lacking any affect... it's not because it was too fast for him to retaliate..

Again if. I don't see any indication that Wolverine purposefully LET him get bashed repeatedly in the face. Whether or not they affected him is inconsquential cause my point is agruing the speed of the blows.

Originally posted by jinzin
You think I'm skimming here?
How so? just because you've delt out faulty logic and alltogether innacruate conclusions and I've disagreed with thim doesn't mean I've been skimming...

Obviously you were or you wouldn't have hopped about trying to disprove what I said. I said that when he tried to go for the kills he failed, not that there were never instances where he could have killed Spider-Man.

Originally posted by jinzin
Wolverine's never tried to outright kill spiderman it's that simple.. next time maybe you should read what I said too... And if you can see that wolverine's had the oppurtunity to kill spiderman than how can you conclude that he can't.. when the only reason he hasn't is because he doesn't want to? 😕

Again read what I said. When he went for the kill he didn't get it. Has he been in positions where he could kill Spider-Man? Sure, but was it a situation where they were actively trying to beat/kill each other. No

Originally posted by jinzin
And uhhhh yeah... logan's already walked away from an unconcious spiderman... twice... so there goes that little bit of superiority complex out the window.

😖igh: Just read above

Originally posted by jinzin
Exactly.. I can't for the sake of me understand how or why that gets so easily confused so damned often...
Wolverine's got hyeractive speed, enhanced agility, and enhanced senses with at least SOME degree of an early warning system for danger but he's not spiderman. He doesn't have precog and he's more likely to make mistakes or get hit by what he can't see, or what's coming up behind him etc etc...

People see spiderman dodging around 8 lazer beams and automatically decide that the feat proves he's the fastest street level alive.. but when you consider "in terms of sheer speed" as the standard.. those feats do nothing more than confirm that spiderman's good or better at dodging what other characters are also fast enough to dodge.. they don't prove he's faster though.

Spiderman is faster why

Simply because none of these guys have Super Speed as a powerset they are simply as fast as their physical upgrades allow.

In short Spiderman weighs less and can lift way more 15-20 tons compared to a possible 1 tonner.

Therefore Spiderman is faster probably able to obtain higher speeds then then most high speed cars. Why because his strength would allow him to simply put more hosrepower into his running.

Common Sense has spoken 😛

Originally posted by marvelprince

Again read what I said. When he went for the kill he didn't get it. Has he been in positions where he could kill Spider-Man? Sure, but was it a situation where they were actively trying to beat/kill each other. No

Ahhhh now I get you. Yeah Jinzin, you heard the man! When Wolverine has been in a position to kill they were not actively trying to kill each other! 😛 😒

Originally posted by Rick/Genis
You know what? You actually have a point there... speed isn't the same as Agile.

For Spider-Man's feats speed is required to go along with his agility. You could be as agile as Reed but slow as a snail and you will get shot. To a certain degree agile and speed go hand in hand.

I guess until all the Marvel street levelers have a foot race there is no way to definitively prove to everyone that Spider-Man is the fastest but based on his interpretations, in his own comic and featuring others, imo its not hard to see he's faster than guys like Wolverine, Cap and Daredevil

Originally posted by marvelprince
For Spider-Man's feats speed is required to go along with his agility. You could be as agile as Reed but slow as a snail and you will get shot. To a certain degree agile and speed go hand in hand.

I guess until all the Marvel street levelers have a foot race there is no way to definitively prove to everyone that Spider-Man is the fastest but based on his interpretations, in his own comic and featuring others, imo its not hard to see he's faster than guys like Wolverine, Cap and Daredevil

Originally posted by Newjak
Therefore Spiderman is faster probably able to obtain higher speeds then then most high speed cars. Why because his strength would allow him to simply put more hosrepower into his running.

That's technically very true, but he lacks the proportional size and mass to do anything with that kind of strength. At least when it comes to running. He would just trip over his own legs.

Originally posted by marvelprince
😂 I seem to remember pretty accurately he was pissed and rearing to go. Didn't seem like he had the claws out to play twister.

HE DIDN'T!

Originally posted by marvelprince
You do realize that in that issue in question Wolverine only managed to win cause of his Hydra tech right? He was webbed to the wall, immobile and only got the jump on Spider-Man cause he teleported out. I'm pretty sure teleportation isn't one of Wolverine's base powers. What was the point of this anyway?

Are you talking about What If: Enemy of the State?

Because I'm certainly not... you Do realize that right? 🙄
I'm reffering to What if X-men lost inferno... I didn't know wolverine killed him in that ish too though, I haven't read it yet.. good to know.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Seriously, work on your critical reading. I ceded that Venom CAN kill Spider-Man because instances exist where in straight up confrontations he has outfought Spider-Man and then spared him. Not times where he's had to sneak up on Spider-Man, or when Spider-Man wasn't expecting a fight or even if Spider-Man suspected he was someone dressed like Venom for Christmas. Does Wolverine have any instances like this? No. Best you have is a Spider-Man who thinks he's just fighting some guy with claws

You "ceded"?
Maybe you need to work on your critical writing skills. pffft.

No.. I've got once instance where spiderman gets groin kicked and left unconcious on the floor.
I've got another instance where Wolverine outright stabbed spiderman and he ended up.. AGAIN.. unconcious on the floor... (because spiderman was "too slow to react" right?)
An instance where spiderman gave him everything he had and ended up in a position where wolverine could kill spiderman and spiderman only THOUGHT he could kill wolverine.
And the rooftop scenario; Spiderman STILL understood that whomever he was fighting was as good as wolverine.
The bottom line is you're again refraining from dealing with my rationale here...
"Venom has had the chance to kill spidey he hasn't.. therefore he can't".. that's basically the logic you're spewing out with wolverine here whether you want to admit it or not, it makes no sense.

Originally posted by marvelprince
I'd say it was pretty obvious that first punch was just that. A first punch. The latter ones were obviously faster, hence the strobe with his fists. 🤨

"obviously faster" based on what?

The fact that he kept punching right?

Even though wolverine let him right?

Originally posted by marvelprince
Because he did right?

Originally posted by marvelprince
You know, cause he was punching Logan repeatedly in his face with Wolverine unable to answer back.

Originally posted by marvelprince
If being the operative word here.

Well I'm sorry that unlike you, I don't think that my speculatated opinions dictate facts.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Again if. I don't see any indication that Wolverine purposefully LET him get bashed repeatedly in the face. Whether or not they affected him is inconsquential cause my point is agruing the speed of the blows.

And I do. The fact that he says "here it comes" in preperation for Peter's blows is an indication.

The fact that he has his gaurd up before the hit even takes place and then suddenly drops his hands to his sides is another.

The fact that he's sitting there smiling and not even bothering to flail his arms about infront of him is yet another...

No one's arguing that the hits weren't fast.. they just weren't faster than Wolverine.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Obviously you were or you wouldn't have hopped about trying to disprove what I said. I said that when he tried to go for the kills he failed, not that there were never instances where he could have killed Spider-Man.

Again.. this "obviously" being based on what?
I am trying to disprove what you said because what you said was wrong.. it's that simple. And, my wish to do so has nothing to do with "skimming"...
What part of this are you NOT understanding? Truly... If you think Wolverine's had the chances to kill Spiderman than why are you arguing that he can't?
The only way in which Wolverine has "failed" to kill spiderman is when he's not trying to kill him.. 😬

Originally posted by marvelprince
Again read what I said. When he went for the kill he didn't get it. Has he been in positions where he could kill Spider-Man? Sure, but was it a situation where they were actively trying to beat/kill each other. No

I am, and it's still a nonsensical thesis. He's been in the position to kill spiderman but he can't because he hasn't... in spite of not wanting to?
The graveyard fight was DEFINITELY an incident in which Spiderman was actively trying to beat and kill Wolverine.

Originally posted by marvelprince
😖igh: Just read above

Originally posted by Dinalfos
That's technically very true, but he lacks the proportional size and mass to do anything with that kind of strength. At least when it comes to running. He would just trip over his own legs.

And with enhanced reflexes he would probably be far from tripping over himself. The point is though he can still run faster at 3/4s to 1/2 his speed then Wolverine should be going all out. 😛

Originally posted by Newjak
You know what from now on I'm calling common sense into play and here is my fisrt common sense point.

Spiderman is faster why

Simply because none of these guys have Super Speed as a powerset they are simply as fast as their physical upgrades allow.

In short Spiderman weighs less and can lift way more 15-20 tons compared to a possible 1 tonner.

Therefore Spiderman is faster probably able to obtain higher speeds then then most high speed cars. Why because his strength would allow him to simply put more hosrepower into his running.

Common Sense has spoken 😛

Your common sense makes sense when it concerns something akin to a foot race.. but it's pretty much worthless in regards to a hand to hand encounter...
Where it concerns fighting speeds Spiderman really has yet to prove himself faster than a lot of street levels out there.

Originally posted by jinzin
Your common sense makes sense when it concerns something akin to a foot race.. but it's pretty much worthless in regards to a hand to hand encounter...
Where it concerns fighting speeds Spiderman really has yet to prove himself faster than a lot of street levels out there.

Common sense says the person who knows about an attack coming will avoid before someone who simply reacts unless said attack is so much faster then the person which Wolverine isn't.

Common Sense prevails again 😛

Originally posted by Newjak
Not if he strides it out 😛

And with enhanced reflexes he would probably be far from tripping over himself. The point is though he can still run faster at 3/4s to 1/2 his speed then Wolverine should be going all out. 😛

Yeah.......Maybe 😛

But seriously, he wouldn't be able to maximize his strength output. His relatively short legs don't leave enough room for the motion to gain the required momentum, I guess.

Although I agree that he's faster than the rest.

Originally posted by Dinalfos
Yeah.......Maybe 😛

But seriously, he wouldn't be able to maximize his strength output. His relatively short legs don't leave enough room for the motion to gain the required momentum, I guess.

Although I agree that he's faster than the rest.

Originally posted by Newjak
Isn't this what this match is about who is faster as in running because that seems to be most of the stuff I heard because if your talking about combat speed all that is is reflexes and Spiderman has that in spades over Wolverine as well since his Spider-Sense means he knows about the attack before it is coming.

Common sense says the person who knows about an attack coming will avoid before someone who simply reacts unless said attack is so much faster then the person which Wolverine isn't.

Common Sense prevails again 😛

Anywho.. in hindsight I don't honestly know if this thread was intended as a foot race or just a generalization.

Since I doubt that C-master got so frustrated that he had to make a thread, I'm doubting it was about foot speed.

And combat speed, well no that's not just reflexes... From what I could gather, I thought we were talking in terms of "sheer speed" between the two.. something I'm afraid Spiderman DOESN'T have in spades over Wolverine.

Originally posted by Newjak
You'd be surprised. Really all that would happen is that Spiderman would appear to be bounding long distances as basically that is what we do when we run. We basically push our body forward with our strength basically leaping in a stright line using the ground to allow us to do it over and over.
So every time Spiderman pushed off with his feet he would literally go about 10-15 feet per step

Yes, but that would probably considered jumping and, therefore, cheating.

Originally posted by jinzin
I like how you're trying to force your "common sense" on a Lord of Chaos.. lol.

Anywho.. in hindsight I don't honestly know if this thread was intended as a foot race or just a generalization.

Since I doubt that C-master got so frustrated that he had to make a thread, I'm doubting it was about foot speed.

And combat speed, well no that's not just reflexes... From what I could gather, I thought we were talking in terms of "sheer speed" between the two.. something I'm afraid Spiderman DOESN'T have in spades over Wolverine.

Combat speed is just reflexes unless your trying to talk about ability to read an oppenent and know what they are gonna do which is just the same as reflexes and your ability to process information.

Which Peter can do because physically he is superior and with an early warning detection he would always have the leg up unless someone is way faster then he is 😛