Putting it all together...spoilers

Started by Minie Mina126 pages

I like the first pic. He looks focused. Ah, I'm having naughty thoughts.

i love the pics....you know I thought Jack was hot and sexy in POTC and even hotter and sexier in DMC...and by the time we get to AWE...OMG he is out of this world....the man is ....like the song says...dynamite, tnt...watch him explode....he is smoking.....I've never seen Jack look better...he just looks so manly, and a man with a mission in every picture i see of him from AWE....

Ok, I'm interrupting the Jack Sparrow squee-fest. Sorry, but since I don't find him all that interesting or engaging, I'd like to get back to discussing something other than him or Elizabeth and shipping.

It is rumored that Will is going to lose his heart anyway, even if he does not choose to cut it out himself.

Do you feel that this is an error in logic for the story? Why would Will need to lose his heart just because Jones was insane and yanked his own ticker out?

Not necessarily an error. I've been looking at Will's story from the perspective of it being very existential. Meaning that he has no control over his fate no matter what decision he does in fact make. Someone else is in charge of it. From that perspective, it makes a whole lot more sense, especially if you look at WHOM might be controling his destiny for her own lascivious purposes.

Also it depends on your shipping perspective. It makes sense from my corner, because I believe that Jack is meant to resemble Davy Jones more closely than Will based on how Davy is described by Tia in the hut. If you want me to prove it, I can find the quotes, but I'm lazy and don't want to type it up 🙂

Honestly Surreal, I'm not trying to be biased. I'm trying to explain how his stabbing the heart makes sense from this perspective. So don't be annoyed, and please don't get a headache.

Calypso's goal may in controlling Will's destiny may in fact be because she realizes that he in no way resembles Jones. His motives for stabbing the heart were entirely pure: to free his father from a terrible fate.

On the other hand, Jack is the one who wants to stab the heart, but doesn't have that same touch of destiny. Why? Because his story too closely mirrors Jones. He became vexed by a woman and his intentions in stabbing the heart aren't exactly as pure. Yes, he may just desire immortality, but I don't think so. There's more to it than that. If he were to stab the heart, history would be repeating itself and the terror of Jones would continue. The souls would continue to be lost on their way to the land of the dead.

Thus, Will doesn't really have much of a choice in terms of whether or not he stabs the heart. He has a touch of destiny because he is the only man capable of healing the past mistakes of Davy and Calypso and breaking the curse.

It's up to Will to control and he can. Jack resembles more Davy, if he stabs it, he will repeat history.

Will, on the other hand, is a bit stronger. Will accepts his responsibilities and accepts the choice Liz makes. He changes history and makes it spanking new.

Breaking the curse.

It would help if we knew exactly how the Flying Dutchman was before Jones came along, unless he was the very first. Who saved all these lost souls before Jones? Were they the captain of a ship? Were they bad, good?

I try to avoid reading any spoiler scripts and I've heard rumors, but consider none of them confirmed. With that said, I have to say that Jack mirrors Davy a little closer than Will, and you can tell by how they interact with each other. Has anyone considered that Jack may have other motives for stabbing the heart besides immortality?

As to Surreal's question, if you've heard Will is literally going to lose his heart, the only solution I have to that is that if a person stabs the heart of Davy Jones, it kind of becomes their heart, so they need to take out their original one and put in Davy's. If you mean it figuratively, then oh yeah, Will's lost his heart without question because he's madly in love with Liz. I'm sure the longer AWE goes on, the more we'll learn about how the curse actually works. Keep in mind there will be imperfections. Look at the last curse we were introduced to.

The Aztec Gold curse:

These pirates can't feel, is the bottom line. They can't taste food, slake their lust, feel the wind, etc. It's like being in the Locker on earth. But there are problems here.
Liz lets the hot coals fall on Pintel and Ragetti and they react in pain. There are other moments where they do seem to react to physical things happening. Not much but some. I'm guessing we'll have little imperfections in AWE because a curse is so hard to translate into film.

i thõught Davy Jones carved out his heart because he 'lost' the woman he loved and couldn't bear it.is it necessary for Will to do the same thing,because he becomes the captain of the Flying Dutchman???

But it's not like Liz has left him. Judging from the trailer and Gore's comments, she's around him a lot. She's not leaving him so much as he's leaving her. His mission is his dad and unfortunately for Will, Liz doesn't fit in that mission, so he's making a choice to leave her. If they've made up or something since the last time we saw them, it's not like she's dumping him, so maybe he carves out his heart because of that different kind of pain, not being dumped but just not being able to do it, fate intervening.

I'm a Sparrabether,but i really don't want to see Will being an evil and unhappy man like Davy Jones.I hope he will show us an other alternative,to be a good captain of the flying Dutchman.

Willow: Perhaps Pintel and Ragetti are reacting to the risk of being on fire, not the pain. Either that, or it's just instinct. Something hot on you, get it off!

Originally posted by willofthewisp
It would help if we knew exactly how the Flying Dutchman was before Jones came along, unless he was the very first. Who saved all these lost souls before Jones? Were they the captain of a ship? Were they bad, good?

I try to avoid reading any spoiler scripts and I've heard rumors, but consider none of them confirmed. With that said, I have to say that Jack mirrors Davy a little closer than Will, and you can tell by how they interact with each other. Has anyone considered that Jack may have other motives for stabbing the heart besides immortality?

As to Surreal's question, if you've heard Will is literally going to lose his heart, the only solution I have to that is that if a person stabs the heart of Davy Jones, it kind of becomes their heart, so they need to take out their original one and put in Davy's. If you mean it figuratively, then oh yeah, Will's lost his heart without question because he's madly in love with Liz. I'm sure the longer AWE goes on, the more we'll learn about how the curse actually works. Keep in mind there will be imperfections. Look at the last curse we were introduced to.

We do actually know a little more about the Dutchman, Davy Jones and the overall goal of what he does. Before Jones, the Dutchman's purpose was very noble. He was meant to ferry the souls of dead sailors to the under world. He was their guardian to ensure they were lost.

But when Jones ripped out his heart, he corrupted the purpose of the Dutchman. He ignored the souls in his selfish concern for his own troubles and turned the Dutchman into a slave ship. Which is yet another interesting parallel between Jack and Davy Jones--he ignores the souls of the pirates in order to fulfill his own selfish desire of becoming immortal.

Also, I think the fact that Jones rips out his heart has another parallel to Jack. It's important that Jones continues to ask whomever he comes across if they fear death. A man that obsessed with overcoming death, in my opinion, is a man who fears it himself.

And again, let's remember that the choice to stab the heart is not made by Will. He's not stabbing the heart because he's heart broken or because he can't go on without Elizabeth. If anything, judging from the battle scene, it's just the contrary and he's been reunited with her.
He stabs the heart as a matter of life or certain death.

The Dutchman has to have a living heart, which makes the title of the second movie all the more ironic: Dead Man's Chest. The reason that the purpose of the Dutchman is corrupted is because Jones' spirit had died, leaving him an empty shell.
It's important to note that the Dutchman needs a LIVING HEART. In this instance, the only heart that is currently living and beating strongly for Elizabeth is Will's. This is what probably lifts the curse; also it is the strength of Will's heart that prevents him from becoming corrupt or evil.

Remember too that Will has his father with him on the Dutchman. Bootstrap is a pirate and a good man. He would help to guide Will to ensure that he stays on the right path.

So I really don't think that Will's stabbing the heart is something to worry about too much. He'll still be a hero in the end. 🙂

^^ I apologize for my cranky post from last night. I'm slightly embarrassed by it.

Excellent post, though Savvy. 😄 I appreciate your insight.

Hey, no problem. I kind off knew you were cranky. But, it's ok. We are kind of at the same boat. I'm trying to get off it and bring peace again.

I still feel bad for poor Will. I bet he can count on one hand the number of years he thinks were good ones. Oh well. Everyone will love him in the end for it. We should make a little banner that says "Thank you Will" on it.

Ha, I'm way ahead of you, willo. I actually started crying while making it. But, I don't want to make his sacrifice in vain.

He will live and somehow, I hope he falls for a girl out there. Maybe I'm a bit in a wishful thinking moment.

I think it's sweet that Jack and Will save eachother at the same time.

Originally posted by Surreal_44
^^ I apologize for my cranky post from last night. I'm slightly embarrassed by it.

Excellent post, though Savvy. 😄 I appreciate your insight.

I hope that helps you! That's the way I view Will's path through out the series. I have a theory developing that says Tia's been manipulating his path from the beginning of the films. I'll have to wait and see how it pans out with AWE.

I just want you to feel really good about Will's choice in AWE. It's not his own, and he'll accept it with breath-taking honor. I really feel like by the end of the film, every single man, woman and child is going to regret what they've said about him and admire him. The writers are right to say that this is indeed Will's movie.

What I can't decide is whether or not the writers will stick with the existentialism theme all the way through the story. I have a feeling he'll make a choice in the end that will be heart-breaking but necessary for the resolution of his story and character arch. It's going to be really good.

(And I'm honestly not trying to ship again, it's just the way from a objective perspective the story seems to be heading. Call it a gut level hunch. There is a lot of imagery on Will and Elizabeth's part that has to do with choices but in the end, they seem to be stuck on a track that they can't escape. It actually makes me a little sad for them 🙁 )

Have you read the novel at all Surreal? You should look at it from an existential perspective. All the pieces start to make a whole lot more sense. And to be honest, it's not necessarily a hopeful perspective for W/E. (Existentialism is just plain depressing any way!) However, that they won't soften the philosophy a bit and give Will a hero's ending. Anything is still possible. 🙂

But think of it this way, Will could find a lost soul on the way that could be a lady and falls in love. Maybe it's a little wishful thinking. But I would love for Will to have his proper ending, still.

Yes i really dont think anyone wants to see these characters depressed at the end of these movies...it wouldnt feel right....we need to leave the theater knowing that these characters were content with themselves!

I wish to discuss, where's savvy? 🙁

well write down what u want...i'll see if i have an opinion about it and if not Savvy will be here soon enough to discuss with u!