Originally posted by savvysparrow
True, she did have to be the bad guy on this one. She essentially held Jack accountable even though he had returned to the ship to be accountable, if that makes any sense. Maybe that's why the writers had the scene in which he slips his hand from the cuff; to show that her actions and concerns that Jack would escape were justifiable.
The more I look at this, the more I dislike Elizabeth's actions. Really, it seems like no matter what she does essentially she doesn't deserve any of the men in her life.Ha, ok, ok, I'll let it go. Let's look at the Will/Elizabeth questions. How would we construct an ending in such a way that Will and Elizabeth end up together, without making it so that Jack is essentially roadkill on the way to E/W bliss?
Aa! Can I take a raincheck?
I have a midterm tomorow and I must get my sleep.
I'll write my theories tomorow on E/W.
Good night!
You could look at Jack as making their relationship stronger rather than tearing it apart. Like erica said, they would never have gotten together in the first place if it wasn't for him, and I can't see them having that many challenges as a couple if they didn't have these misadventures with Jack. I'm not saying their life together would be boring, but it wouldn't be challenged.
oh...there life would be very boring without jack there to spice it up...but this time he may have spiced it up a little too much, but I digress....
Okay.. Savvy, when you put it that way...No I don't like Elizabeth very much at this point...if she knew Jack was going to stay behind, and she suspected he came back to prove to her that he was a good man...then, yes, her actions are very selfish and hurtful....she left him basically defenseless, although, Jack gets Free from the chains despite her she-devil actions....she knew Jack was beginning to care for her and she uses that knowledge to kiss him and distract him and chain him to the mast...although she knew he could have escaped with them..and she also could have suspected that he was deciding to stay behind anyway..that he had finally accepted that he needed to pay for his mistakes....
But despite all this...I still think Jack and Elizabeth can be a couple...I would like to see in AWE that she comes to realize what she did..and that Jack makes her pay for using him...but in the end they come together and all is forgiven...but maybe I'm just living in fantasyland....(riding Dumbo, I suppose)
hmmm, i'm just jumping into the conversation with no background of what ya'll have been discussing, except some Elizabeth hating going on... so I'd like to do some Elizabeth defending for a few minutes.
I think what she did to Jack was awesome. Not that she killed him, but that she turned out to be a sneaky little waif with her own plans in life. In terms of her character, she's made the cross over into a person with no morals beyond what helps her. Now, in real life I probably wouldn't like her much, but in movie land, that's one hell of a heroine. She's like Cleopatra or something--- seducing great men, using them to her advantage, risking everything on her wits and manipulation skills. I think that's pretty awesome. Plus, look at it this way. If she had treated our dear Captain with the respect and deference we know he deserves, they would have never gotten to have the hottest kiss scene of all time--- and let's face it, half the reason the kiss was so hott was because it was a kiss of betrayal and followed by a death scene. It was the situation that created such delicious tension there.
Plus, let's go over this one more time, its a pirate movie and Elizabeth has essentially turned pirate. So, we should expect pirates to do terrible things sometimes. We couldn't call them pirates if they didn't.
I'd like it even if Liz toughed it out a bit more and pulled some stunts of a similar nature in film 3... if she mopes around apologizing and tearing up the whole film, I will be extremely disappointed. Not that I think she will, but you know what I mean.
I agree with Kate! I luv lizzie. One of my fave movie heroins ever.
I think her actions were justified by what happened before and after that scene.
Also a bit of forshadowing going on. Well SORTA cause logically speaking he does predict that she will "come ove to his side".
One more thing it's pirate movie so all the main characters have to commit at least one major act of piracy! now Jack's got that covered and I've heard Will has too in AWE but hijacking wasn't piraty enough for lizzie.
What better act of piracy than for the leading female to turn on the leading male? The only thing better than that would be if they had sex in the captain's cabin, got dressed in such a hurry that he forgot his shirt and than for her to push him into the kraken's mouth at the last minute. lol just kidding
Yes, but does the end justify the means? I suppose that's what I'm getting at with Elizabeth's actions. Yes, the kiss was hot. There's no denying that. But to what end? She killed a man physically, but if she doesn't really love him and has toyed with his emotions, she'll have killed him twice in some senses.
I just don't get something that Terry said over at wordplayer. I don't know if anyone Remember it, but he said that Liz killed a man she might indeed love". IMO implying that she she felt guilty because she killed a man she had feelings for. And thats the thing she might not be able to live with. Because if she killed someone that she cares about, imagine what she would do to a stranger. I believe Liz will kill gain in order to protect her life or the life of her love ones. Wasn't there a pic of Liz pointing a knife at Thai Huang's throat?
True. And if it were real life I think I too would hate her with a passion but in the movie world I think she proves that she really is a pirate.
She's like Jack and whilst we've never seen Jack actually go to those extremes I think he would to save his own skin (and get rid of his most tempting temptations) if need be. So they're both playing out to what the other predicted really. being mad at lizzie for betraying him is like being mad at Jack for coming back to the Pearl.
They were both going against they're usual instincts for once. It's just that his "happened" to be good and hers "happened" to be bad for once.
bottom line is: she's a PIRATE!!! if she doesn't commit piracy how can she be?
I get your point though about how she proved herself unworthy of both of them.
The thing that really gets me is that she calls him a coward and yet in the very previouse scene the only reason she declines Will's offer to leave the Pearl is that there aren't any boats left!!!
I know it was because he left without them but they couldn't take all of the crew either hence they would leave either together or with a few crew members if they did making them as bad as Jack. again: PIRAAAAAATE!! lol rambling again.
I haven't been here in a long time, interesting posts everyone. 🙂
I'm not very keen on Elizabeth anymore, in fact, after seeing the trailer I'm no longer a Sparrabether(I'm NOT Willabeth either, don't like Will) I'm interested in Jack and that's it. Will doesn't interest me at all and IMO is Elizabeth a selfish nasty character. I agree she doesn't deserve any of the men in her life. I think it would fit her best to be alone, since all she truly cares about is herself. TnT have some job ahead of them if they want to make Elizabeth redeemable and likable in AWE. Most people out there are pissed at her for doing what she did to Jack and Will. And while I don't care about Will at all, I'm more than pissed with her for her actions towards Jack in DMC. And by the look of the trailer(and spoilers) her constant PMS'ing and arrogance will be very much present in AWE
About Barnacle Jack, I can bring you some peace: He doesn't end up like that. He'll be alright and as normal as he can be by the end of the movie. Whether or not he is happy is yet to be seen 😉
in some ways, I agree with you Alina...I'm a Jack Sparrow Shipper..whatever Jack wants/needs to be domplete, free and happy is what I'm interested in..however, there is a part of me that still believes that Elizabeth is the key to all this for jack....
and I'm not saying I hate elizabeth...I'm just agreeing with Savvy..yes, the kiss was hot, but to Kill Jack Physically...that's a bit harsh...yes, she should become more Piratey...but at that point and time she has no idea that they will actually get to go back and fetch jack...
And Misty..I mentioned that same thing a little earlier....terry said it (I didn't realize it was on wordplayer)..that she could infact, very well killed someone she might indeed love.....
I think Jack would have stayed so Jack would be capable of dying for the good of others, but to kill someone else, someone he loved? No, I don't think Jack could do that. Notice in AWE that he betrays Will and everyone but specifically states for Lizzie to be on the Pearl with him.
BECKETT
And what becomes of Miss Swann?
JACK
The rest go with me aboard the pearl, and i will lead you to shipwreck cove. Do we have an accord?
Now that I agree with...she went one step further than she should have. Jack would certainly talk about it but never do it. remember the deleted scenes from the island? he was going to not give will up for a ship he just wanted a leverage. he was never going to sell will out.
Lizzie thinks everything through very well but at that moment she just gave into her selfish thought that by getting rid of Jack she'll get rid of what she may want and she'll be with will. Obviousely she didn't think of how she would feel afterwards.