Storm vs Kitty Pride

I always figured the alter perception thing just meant their eyes had the capability to change what type of energy they can pick up visually.

It doesn't really sound too helpful in most cases unless you need to follow an energy trail or see something that's not visible to the normal light spectrum.

Hence why all the people who have it rarely use it. Except Geordi, because he has to use the other spectrums to see anything. Geordi rocks though.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I believe you are falling into the Gods in the gaps fallacy. Meaning that you seem to be searching for the most fantastical explanation for a phenomenon.

Originally posted by inimalist
Did anyone else have a stroke when they read that

What are you claiming that I am giving Ororo that comics have not already given her or stated for her? To say that Electro or Magneto can control the forces Ororo can in space has no basis whatsoever. Storm has a resonance with life itself and this is where her power comes from. She manipulates the forces that govern the universe. Magneto and Electro do not have powers rooted in spirituality like that. I can go more into this if you'd like to illustrate the difference here.

X-treme X-men 13 was specific in that it said she can see the energies that composes the material world, and also sub-atomic particles such as electrons.

She manipualted empty space through this same way. What "energies" compose an "empty sapce" vaccum?? Ask yourself that. There is no air or water molecules to manipulate, only the base energies.

She can already see the light, feel the heat and other affects from an element. Why would she need to alter her perception to manipulate something, let alone at it's base, sub-atomic state??😕

I think people don't ask themselves key questions: What exactly ARE these patterns of energy in which she alters her vision to see, What are they actually made of and What do they actually make up in the material world?? I think that's what people conveniently glaze over.🙄

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

[b]
"Empty space" is full of dust and plasma and EM radiation. Literal empty space would be nothingness, like purgatory or something.

You are reaching here. When they said that she sees even empty space as patterns of energy and forces she can bend to her will, they are talking about just that: empty space. She can bend space to her will be manipulating the energies that compose it. Empty means devoid of anything. It does not mean dust or anything like that. This is desperate. In other words, even the areas where there may be no dust or anything there period, just totally clean, she can manipulate the energy that composes that.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
X-treme X-men 13 was specific in that it said she can see the energies that composes the material world, and also sub-atomic particles such as electrons.

Clearly the author was thinking of these things in terms of classical physics. You have no evidence that she's working on a quatum level.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
She manipualted empty space through this same way. What "energies" compose an "empty sapce" vaccum??😆

In the "vaccum" of space there is a rather large amount of radiant energy. The two ways to die in space are freeze instantly or be incinerated.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
She can already see the light, feel the heat and other affects from an element. Why would she need to alter her perception to manipulate something, let alone at it's base, sub-atomic state??😕

Because if she can't percieve it then she can't control it iwith any degree of accuracy.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
I think people don't ask themselves key questions: What exactly ARE these patterns of energy in which she alters her vision to see, What are they actually made of and What do they actually make up in the material world?? I think that's what people conveniently glaze over.🙄

Apparently these energy fields are electrical in nature.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I'm inclined to agree. Storm potentially has the power set to do what they claim but I don't think there is evidence she can do it on a grand enough scale. If she's show to have a power source that would make that possible or given feats that really show this potential I'd be willing to place her at a higher level.

Personally I think that Storm as having power over weather rather than a cosmic is far more interesting and in fact more impressive for Storm.

Here is my feeling on this: Storm has the ability to control the very forces that compose (empty space, etc) and govern the universe. This is canon. Her power is limited to her will and body. We know that the body/physical limitation is only temporary as she has the potential to trascend that. This leaves a character who can manipulate these forces who's power would be limited only by her imagination. Even with the physical limitation on the body, she summoned the full power of millions of stars. This is one scary character.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

Apparently these energy fields are electrical in nature.

Is not EVERYTHING in the universe electrical in some form or fashion?? 😕

Originally posted by Rutog98
You are reaching here. When they said that she sees even empty space as patterns of energy and forces she can bend to her will, they are talking about just that: empty space. She can bend space to her will be manipulating the energies that compose it. Empty means devoid of anything. It does not mean dust or anything like that. This is desperate. In other words, even the areas where there may be no dust or anything there period, just totally clean, she can manipulate the energy that composes that.

Still reading?

Alright... You're reading this, right?

Here goes: Where do you find empty space containing absolutely nothing?

You might of just skipped past my question, read the sentence above.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Is not EVERYTHING in the universe electrical in some form or fashion?? 😕

Not really. Especially in comics.

The energies that comprise reality come in many different forms.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Alright, new question. Are you still with me? Because you obviously didn't read further than 6 words into that post you quoted. Still here?

Still reading?

Alright... You're reading this, right?

Here goes: Where do you find empty space containing absolutely nothing?

You might of just skipped past my question, read the sentence above.

Define the word empty. The scan states that she perceives the universe, planets, stars, empty space, as patters of energy and forces which she can bend to her will. You are trying to put objects, matter, energy where the issue states empty. In other words, you are trying to put something tangible there. Stars, planets, empty space. In other words even places where there is nothing tangible there she can manipulate the energies that compose even that. You are stretching big time to try and detract from the character.

Did you get all that? Stop adding to the text and trying to twist it to devalue the character. She controls the forces that compose empty space as well.

Originally posted by Rutog98
Define the word empty. The scan states that she perceives the universe, planets, stars, empty space, as patters of energy and forces which she can bend to her will. You are trying to put objects, matter, energy where the issue states empty. In other words, you are trying to put something tangible there. Stars, planets, empty space. In other words even places where there is nothing tangible there she can manipulate the energies that compose even that. You are stretching big time to try and detract from the character.

Did you get all that? Stop adding to the text. She controls the forces that compose empty space as well.

Do you understand the idea of empty?

If space is empty then there is nothing there to manipulate. NOTHING. No forces govern a quantum vaccum. For fuk's sake Jaspers can't warp in a true vaccum.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Do you understand the idea of empty?

If space is empty then there is nothing there to manipulate. NOTHING. No forces govern a quantum vaccum. For fuk's sake Jaspers can't warp in a true vaccum.

Based on one feat of course, and ignoring every other feat she has ever had, and even hyping her best feat, to infinity, and beyond, etc.

Also, hyping up a feat that the author said, and her percieving things...

Funny how that works, isn't it?

Originally posted by WorldWarHulk
You don't seem to understand... Storm is potentially above everyone in the universe.

Based on one feat of course, and ignoring every other feat she has ever had, and even hyping her best feat, to infinity, and beyond, etc.

Also, hyping up a feat that the author said, and her percieving things...

Funny how that works, isn't it?

Now it makes sense.

I'm gonna try with some other characters now.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Do you understand the idea of empty?

If space is empty then there is nothing there to manipulate. NOTHING. No forces govern a quantum vaccum. For fuk's sake Jaspers can't warp in a true vaccum.

This is what brought me to Quantum Mechanics. Apparently that was wrong 🙄

Originally posted by 2damnloud
This is waht brought me to Quantum Mechanics. Apparently that was wrong 🙄

Storm cannot manipulate a true vaccum as such a feat is quite literally impossible no matter your power level. Quantum mechanics has nothing to do with a true/quantum vaccum.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Do you understand the idea of empty?

If space is empty then there is nothing there to manipulate. NOTHING. No forces govern a quantum vaccum. For fuk's sake Jaspers can't warp in a true vaccum.

I don't think you get what I am trying to get at. I'm thinking it means she can bend SPACE itself to her will. In other words, it would not be out-of-character for her to open portals to other dimensions or any number of things. In Uncanny 369, Storm and X-Men were kidnapped and taken to another dimension. In this dimension there were three elemental gods that were the sum of all that dimension was in the past, is in the present and will be in the future. The were the personification of the very forces that composed and govered that dimension. Storm single-handedly defeated them in combat. During the story, there was a tear in the fabric or reality which would have caused two different realities to collide with each other to their mutual destruction. After defeating the Trion (which is what they were called), Ororo mended the tear and saved both realities. What I am asserting is that panel right there with empty space is talking about this kind of power. Get it? It has nothing to do with space dust or plasma or anything otherwise CC would have said that instead along with his planets and stars thing in that same sentence.

Originally posted by Rutog98
I don't think you get what I am trying to get at. I'm thinking it means she can bend SPACE itself to her will.

You don't understand the idea of complete emptiness (ie an area where even space does not exist) and do you have some sort of precedent for Storm doing this.

Originally posted by Rutog98
In other words, it would not be out-of-character for her to open portals to other dimensions or any number of things.

😐 Oh my ****ing god. Do you know what in character means?

Originally posted by Rutog98
In Uncanny 369, Storm and X-Men were kidnapped and taken to another dimension. In this dimension there were three elemental gods that were the sum of all that dimension was in the past, is in the present and will be in the future. The were the personification of the very forces that composed and govered that dimension. Storm single-handedly defeated them in combat. During the story, there was a tear in the fabric or reality which would have caused two different realities to collide with each other to their mutual destruction. After defeating the Trion (which is what they were called), Ororo mended the tear and saved both realities. What I am asserting is that panel right there with empty space is talking about this kind of power. Get it? It has nothing to do with space dust or plasma or anything otherwise CC would have said that instead along with his planets and stars thing in that same sentence.

Good for you. You've found a second feat in decades of history to back up your claims.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
[B]You don't understand the idea of complete emptiness (ie an area where even space does not exist) and do you have some sort of precedent for Storm doing this.

I don't think you are getting what I am saying. What I am disagreeing with is Tuna's claim that the empty space comment merely meant that Storm can control dust, etc found there. That assertion is totally ridiculous.

😐 Oh my ****ing god. Do you know what in character means?

Yes, I do. Obviously, we just have two different interpretations of the character. What I am talking about has been in continuity for decades for her. 😄

Good for you. You've found a second feat in decades of history to back up your claims.

Obviously, these power levels will not always be demonstrated as she is FAR more powerful than the x-villains as it is. Every now and then, she will spike up and we will see glimpses of what she is truly capable of. Why is this so hard for you to understand? The lady is a true Mistress of the Elements. She controls the forces of the univese.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Good for you. You've found a second feat in decades of history to back up your claims.

Anyway...

When Kitty appeared in a Silver Surfer comic (Silver Surfer v3 #49), she fought alongside Surfer against someone who litterly eats pocket dimensions. Surfer's attacks proved to be useless, while Kitty was watching (following) Surfer's travel speed. The author said it clocked in at about lightspeed, and the next f*cking panel, Kitty grabs Surfer, goes on his board, and when they were flying at the monster (I believe it was an old Strange enemy... oh ya, Ry-achu), Kitty goes intangible, and rips out it's brain (it was about the size of an asteroid). Also, she showed the ability to fly in that comic, so Storm better watch out.

You see how that works?

Did SHE show the ability to move from place A to B at lightspeed on her own? I seriously doubt it hence she had to get on his board and he had to get her there. Your argument does not work. Anywhoo, that is a farcry from what is going on here. Storm LITERALLY pulled these feats and these power levels were given to her in plain english in canon.