also, just because something is smaller in diameter doesn't mean that it cant be more dense making it heavier, or in this case, the same weight as the originals. And while we are talking about speed, you still use your muscle strength to move, so it kind of ties in. But just to put things into perspective here, being that Bane isn't your normal everyday guy...imagine an already genetically jacked guy; now give him the best steroids there are. Have 2 identical cars side by side. Have him try to lift the front of one, and have another normal guy (although Anakin was still really strong) and have him use a simple car jack. Who do you think will lift the car easier, or even at all? Car jack work on the same principle as basic cybernetics, as far as what enables them to move, such as hydraulics, and being that this is SW, I'm quite sure that the cybernetics used in Vader are of much better quality than what we have here on Earth. I'm not doubting Bane is a beast, but Vader would be logically stronger.
Originally posted by Darth SexyRODV confirms that sidious merely makes vader powerful and could make him far stronger than what he is at the moment.
Kadesh is right. Even with the orbalisks, Bane is limited by flesh and bone. Vader doesn't have those limits, especially since all the stuff that was put into him was Sidious' design. I highly doubt Sidious wouldn't make Vader as strong as possible.
Ill try to find the quote
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
also, just because something is smaller in diameter doesn't mean that it cant be more dense making it heavier, or in this case, the same weight as the originals.
That would only work if they were different materials... They're all orbalisks, and would have the same density.
And while we are talking about speed, you still use your muscle strength to move, so it kind of ties in.
Kinda, but that would apply to Vader too.
But just to put things into perspective here, being that Bane isn't your normal everyday guy...imagine an already genetically jacked guy; now give him the best steroids there are. Have 2 identical cars side by side. Have him try to lift the front of one, and have another normal guy (although Anakin was still really strong) and have him use a simple car jack. Who do you think will lift the car easier, or even at all? Car jack work on the same principle as basic cybernetics, as far as what enables them to move, such as hydraulics, and being that this is SW, I'm quite sure that the cybernetics used in Vader are of much better quality than what we have here on Earth.
These strange analogies really aren't necessary.
I'm not doubting Bane is a beast, but Vader would be logically stronger.
Not really, since when has mechanical strength ever compared to force boosted strength? Yoda could use the force to boost his natural strength up to such a degree that he could lift and carry a giant turret gun the size of a small house. Given that Bane can can amp up his speed far beyond what Vader can do, it seems logical that he would be able to do the same with strength.
Mechanical strength c ompared to force boosted strength? I guess your argument completely fails when you forgot that Vader could use the force as well!! How about that huh? Also, you saying that because Bane has shown to do force attack X while Vader hasn't, then he can do it better as well as force attack Y. Nice logic there Noobaris, I can't imagine why you haven't won an argument.
Originally posted by allfgDid you forget that vader can use the force to boost his strength as well?. And by the way,Not really, since when has mechanical strength ever compared to force boosted strength? Yoda could use the force to boost his natural strength up to such a degree that he could lift and carry a giant turret gun the size of a small house. Given that Bane can can amp up his speed far beyond what Vader can do, it seems logical that he would be able to do the same with strength.
also, just because something is smaller in diameter doesn't mean that it cant be more dense making it heavier, or in this case, the same weight as the originals. And while we are talking about speed, you still use your muscle strength to move, so it kind of ties in. But just to put things into perspective here, being that Bane isn't your normal everyday guy...imagine an already genetically jacked guy; now give him the best steroids there are. Have 2 identical cars side by side.
It depends entirely on how much these orbalisks are pumping him with strength and adrenaline. Since Lee supports the idea that the DSSB statistics are a good basis to work with, we can assume that he was so significantly pumped, that even with Vader’s cybernetic implants it's not enough to match Bane’s physical strength.
And really, it’s not too hard to imagine that biological organisms can be stronger than cyborgs or droids. I mean Chewbacca could easily tear the arms off of a typical battle droid. Shimrra was able to outmuscle Luke in combat and Luke had the force to augment himself - far more strength than just a cyborg.
My point with all this though is that having cybernetic limbs does not necessarily mean you are stronger.
Have him try to lift the front of one, and have another normal guy (although Anakin was still really strong) and have him use a simple car jack. Who do you think will lift the car easier, or even at all?
With your aforementioned analogy, I would say it depends on how jacked with chemicals this guy really is. If we are talking “Incredible Hulk levels,” (gamma rays, but just replace radiation with chemicals) then yeah, I would say he lifts the car – it would be a non issue actually - far more easily than a regular guy with a carjack. I’m not hairy enough to say that Bane is stronger than the Hulk, but you get - I hope - the idea.
and being that this is SW, I'm quite sure that the cybernetics used in Vader are of much better quality than what we have here on Earth. I'm not doubting Bane is a beast, but Vader would be logically stronger.
S-canon sourcebook doesn't support that idea.
Just so we're clear, Zephiel, you do understand that the statistics in question are only valid if supported by other sources or if there is no contradiction made? Darth Sexy and Jollyjim are very much right in one instance - the statistics you bring up aren't exactly infallible - given how Exar Kun's statistical prowess seems to surpass Palpatine's, or how Vader's 'move objects with the Force' seems to be greater than Palpatine's as well. Lee also said that the statistics aren't to be relied on completely for a character's strength.
I'd suggest treading lightly.
[B]Just so we're clear, Zephiel, you do understand that the statistics in question are only valid if supported by other sources or if there is no contradiction made?
Obviously...there are no overt contradictions made with these statistics. If there were a publication after BoTS which shows that Bane really isn't as strong as stated, then so be it.
Darth Sexy and Jollyjim are very much right in one instance - the statistics you bring up aren't exactly infallible - given how Exar Kun's statistical prowess seems to surpass Palpatine's
Really? Last time I checked, they don't.
, or how Vader's 'move objects with the Force' seems to be greater than Palpatine's as well.
Contradicted by a higher source of canon; therefore, meaningless.
Lee also said that the statistics aren't to be relied on completely for a character's strength.
He said that only if the statistics were contradicted by reliable narrative. They can be a basis on determining a character's abilities, which IMO is painfully obvious from the quote Advent posted.
I'd suggest treading lightly.
If you think that I'm basing everything on statistics, then I'd suggest you reread the facts I put down supporting my argument.
Obviously...there are no overt contradictions made with these statistics. If there were a publication after BoTS which shows that Bane really isn't as strong as stated, then so be it.
Good to know.
Really? Last time I checked, they don't.
The key word being "seems". Isn't that what Darth Sexy said?
Contradicted by a higher source of canon; therefore, meaningless.
Exactly. But, again, goes to show that they aren't infallible.
He said that only if the statistics were contradicted by reliable narrative. They can be a basis on determining a character's abilities, which IMO is painfully obvious from what Advent posted.
Exactly.
Typing you mean? I'll try...
No, it's an expression, Zephiel.
Originally posted by Gideon
Good to know.The key word being "seems". Isn't that what Darth Sexy said?
Exactly. But, again, goes to show that they aren't infallible.
Exactly.
Then we're agreed. Its good to know we're not at each others throats this time.
Although the part about Palpatine's stats being inferior to Kun's, its not really true. Kun is shown to be physically stronger, but I think that's pretty obvious.
No, it's an expression, Zephiel. [/B]
Yeah, I figured that out, I had a massive misinterpretation there. See the edit. 😆
Originally posted by Gideon
How are Kun's stats in relation to Vader and Sidious?
In the physical stats he's a bit more maneuverable than Vader and about as strong. He's physically stronger than Sidious.
On the otherhand, Vader is incredibly intelligent, and so is Sidious, moreso than Kun. They are both more charismatic (Palpatine by far the most charismatic Sith lord).
Palpatine's stats are pretty wacky though. They change from different points in his career. In TPM he was physically tougher than in ROTJ. They seemed to ignore the DE incarnation; but statswise, I would imagine he'd be close to Bane in strength, and probably would have far more force skills and feats.
What the sourcebook doesn't mention is how much each Sith lord can augment their powers. I'd imagine that could change things quite a bit, depending on how you view each Sith Lord.
Originally posted by Kadesh
Did you forget that vader can use the force to boost his strength as well?.
No I didn't, but the degree in which he can do it isn't comparable to Bane's.
And by the way,
Since bane is tremendously slowed down,
No he isn't, stop getting this twisted, I've already posted evidence from the NEGtC that explains how the benefits of the orbalisks made him much faster. A tiny bit of added weight doesn't compare to the constant addition of dark side energies, adrenaline, and the strengthening of muscles.
[qoute]wouldn't boosting his speed make him slightly faster than an average PT jedi?[/quote]
By BotS, Bane is much much faster than anyone from the movies.
Its safe to assume vader knows the same technique, force speed is a basic power
Stop with this bullshit (this refers to everyone as well as Kadesh), "force speed" as seen in KotOR doesn't exist, there's no single power that enables a jedi to suddenly go at Superman speeds. All Jedi know how to amp up their speed with the force, but the degree to which they can do so varies on how strong in the force they are. Vader can't simply activate a power and suddenly start moving at speeds far beyond what the eyes can see.
and he studied under the greatest and most powerful sith lord for 20 years
I love how Vader fanboys love to attribute Sidious' success and power to Vader, simply because he's his student. The competence of his teacher has virtually no relation on Vader, and if anything, he was likely holding him back more than helping him.
Originally posted by allfg
No I didn't, but the degree in which he can do it isn't comparable to Bane's.
By BotS, Bane is much much faster than anyone from the movies.
Stop with this bullshit (this refers to everyone as well as Kadesh), "force speed" as seen in KotOR doesn't exist, there's no single power that enables a jedi to suddenly go at Superman speeds. All Jedi know how to amp up their speed with the force, but the degree to which they can do so varies on how strong in the force they are. Vader can't simply activate a power and suddenly start moving at speeds far beyond what the eyes can see.
I love how Vader fanboys love to attribute Sidious' success and power to Vader, simply because he's his student. The competence of his teacher has virtually no relation on Vader, and if anything, he was likely holding him back more than helping him. [/B]
No he isn't, stop getting this twisted, I've already posted evidence from the NEGtC that explains how the benefits of the orbalisks made him much faster. A tiny bit of added weight doesn't compare to the constant addition of dark side energies, adrenaline, and the strengthening of muscles.
Except logically the Orbalsiks can't pump constant adrenaline and dark side energy(I wan't a quote that says it actually does this) into Bane with out him dieing. Bane is still human force user or not the superhuman amounts of power that your claiming is being juiced into his body would put an EXTREME amount of stress on his heart and eventually it'd stop beating.
Now you've yet to prove exactly how much adrenaline is being given to him, and even still logically he could only last at most about a couple of minutes in a stressful real hard fight (take the one with Kas'im for example) without dieing on the spot from heart failure. And as I've said in the past if this is a "constant" affect which your claiming he'd be suffering from a number of psychological problems such as hypertension, insomnia which in turn would lead to hallucinations, sever rage, irritability coupled with the fact he has the dark side which can destroy minds, he'd be a mental wreak.