Who better to tier heroes . . .?

Originally posted by Redatom65
Generally most of my favs are up there, but I'm througholy convinced Atom does belong up there, set aside that i am a dedicated fan of his

Originally posted by Redatom65
Sub-Skyfather
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (Classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Dr. Fate, Ion (current), The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), The Mask, Onslaught, Gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus, High Evolutionary, Eclipso,

Herald
Morg, Terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Thor, Sentry, The Silver Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord, Original Lobo, Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), Genis-Vell, Red Shift, Waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman, Spartan 3.0, Void, Runner, amazo, Alex Nero, Captain Atom, wildfire

Sub-Herald
Magneto, Apocalypse, Sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell, Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union, Prime, Gorilla Grodd, Hector Hammond, Dr. Polaris, Kalibak, Maxima, Mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy/John), Selene (External), Circe (DC), Jericho, Ronan the Accusor, Super Skrull, Bizarro, Manchester Black, Prof X, Major Force, Jason Rusch, Red Tornado, The Ray

Mid-Tier
Ironman, Colossus, Thing, Starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, Ms. Marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red, Beast Boy, Metallo, Box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Box, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl, Aegis, Mary Marvel, Captain Marvel Jr, Bishop, Crystal, Electro, Non-Phoenix Jean grey, Emma frost, Firehawk, bombshell, Black Cannary, Steel, Booster Gold

Enhanced
Wolverine, Killer Croc, Luke cage, Deathstroke, Spider-man, Midnighter, Angel, Sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit, Taskmaster, Vulture, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat, Orka Humbug, Spiderwoman, Arachne, Arana, Kingpin, Silver Samurai, Ravager, Nightcrawler, Creeper

Street
Batman, Daredevil, Nghtwing, Hawkeye, Moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Elektra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher, Joker, Penguin, Riddler, Nomad, Nuke, Ra's Al Ghul, Arsenal/Red Arrow, Black Cat, Catwoman, Echo, Misty Knight, Shang Chi, Coleen Wing, Black Widow, Robin, White Tiger, Deadshot, Lady Shiva, Talia, The Question

added what you added to the updated list

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Still against CA in the herald level. Nothing I've been shown puts him there, and all I see are protests from his fans....there's nothing shameful about sub-herald. Hell, look at the list.

But meh. He's 1 among dozens, eventually 100's.

[b]But.
...if we start allowing each characters' fans to demand power-raises and doing it themselves, we'll have an insanely biased list. MM did it, the CA fans did it.

I put what I know, but I don't touch my "faves"....others would do well to follow the same advice. [/B]

I'm not a fan of Captain Atom. Just from what I've come across about him and his powers that he should be on the Herald list.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Still against CA in the herald level. Nothing I've been shown puts him there, and all I see are protests from his fans....there's nothing shameful about sub-herald. Hell, look at the list.

But meh. He's 1 among dozens, eventually 100's.

[b]But.
...if we start allowing each characters' fans to demand power-raises and doing it themselves, we'll have an insanely biased list. MM did it, the CA fans did it.

I put what I know, but I don't touch my "faves"....others would do well to follow the same advice. [/B]

This has nothing to do with me being a fan of him. He's a legit herald level character.

Oh, and lol @ this post considering Apollo is in the herald class. 😂

Originally posted by Validus
Well like I said on Page 1, the distinction between Herald and Sub-Herald is iffy at best especially when you have guys like Sersi and Nate Grey as Sub Herald.

I can make a strong case for a lot of the so-called "sub herald" level guys as being herald levellers.

Originally posted by batdude123
This has nothing to do with me being a fan of him. He's a legit herald level character.

Oh, and lol @ this post considering Apollo is in the herald class. 😂

dayum, I was saying that earlier too about Apollo 😱

Originally posted by batdude123
I can make a strong case for a lot of the so-called "sub herald" level guys as being herald levellers.

Originally posted by Newjak
And yet most of them would be rejected 😛

Most of the character's positions on this tier ranking appear to be arbitrary at best.

😂

Originally posted by batdude123
Most of the characters' positions on this tier ranking appear to be arbitrary at best.

Originally posted by Evil_Ash

I'm not a fan of Captain Atom. Just from what I've come across about him and his powers that he should be on the Herald list.

Originally posted by batdude123
I can make a strong case for a lot of the so-called "sub herald" level guys as being herald levellers.

Originally posted by Validus
Exactly. The only way I can see CA being put in the herald bracket is if you're just looking at powersets but if we did that, we'd have to do redo the whole list. This isn't the powerset bracket.

Depends on how you define top tier/herald level. I don't agree with every ranking on the list but I'm not going to take it upon myself to change it which is the point Digi was making.

I strongly think alot of the characters are not in the right places.

I only had one changed. I had Major Froce put on sub-herald, because even though he always get's punked he is still potentially powerful, what with blowing up Toyko

Sub-Skyfather
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (Classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Dr. Fate, Ion (current), The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), The Mask, Onslaught, Gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus, High Evolutionary, Eclipso,

Herald
Morg, Terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Thor, Sentry, The Silver Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord, Original Lobo, Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), Genis-Vell, Red Shift, Waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman, Spartan 3.0, Void, Runner, amazo, Alex Nero, Captain Atom, wildfire

Sub-Herald
Magneto, Apocalypse, Sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell, Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union, Prime, Gorilla Grodd, Hector Hammond, Dr. Polaris, Kalibak, Maxima, Mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy/John), Selene (External), Circe (DC), Jericho, Ronan the Accusor, Super Skrull, Bizarro, Manchester Black, Prof X, Major Force, Jason Rusch, Red Tornado, The Ray, Cir-el 😬

Mid-Tier
Ironman, Colossus, Thing, Starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, Ms. Marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red, Beast Boy, Metallo, Box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Box, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl, Aegis, Mary Marvel, Captain Marvel Jr, Bishop, Crystal, Electro, Non-Phoenix Jean grey, Emma frost, Firehawk, bombshell, Black Cannary, Steel, Booster Gold

Enhanced
Wolverine, Killer Croc, Luke cage, Deathstroke, Spider-man, Midnighter, Angel, Sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit, Taskmaster, Vulture, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat, Orka Humbug, Spiderwoman, Arachne, Arana, Kingpin, Silver Samurai, Ravager, Nightcrawler, Creeper

Street
Batman, Daredevil, Nghtwing, Hawkeye, Moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Elektra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher, Joker, Penguin, Riddler, Nomad, Nuke, Ra's Al Ghul, Arsenal/Red Arrow, Black Cat, Catwoman, Echo, Misty Knight, Shang Chi, Coleen Wing, Black Widow, Robin, White Tiger, Deadshot, Lady Shiva, Talia, The Question

Originally posted by Redatom65
Sub-Skyfather
Despero, Thanos, The Keeper, Dr. Strange (Classic), The Doctor, Mangog, Dr. Fate, Ion (current), The General (Shaggy Man), Tyrant (powered down), The Mask, Onslaught, Gog, Superman 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Validus, High Evolutionary, Eclipso,

Herald
Morg, Terrax, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Thor, Sentry, The Silver Surfer, Adam Warlock, Loki, Gladiator, Quasar, Majestic, Apollo, Graviton, Orion, Infinity-Man, Absorbing Man (sans CIS), Superman, Cpt. Marvel (DC), Superman Blue/Red, Beta Ray Bill, Hyperion, Doomsday, Binary, General Zod, Mon-El, Supergirl, Stardust, Black Adam, Eradicator, Firelord, Original Lobo, Martian Manhunter, Fernus, Supreme (Leifeld), Genis-Vell, Red Shift, Waverider, The Fallen One, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), Sinestro, Cyborg Superman, Spartan 3.0, Void, Runner, amazo, Alex Nero, Captain Atom, wildfire

Sub-Herald
Magneto, Apocalypse, Sersi, Nate Grey, Hulk, Mandarin, Holocaust, Ultron, Super Skrull, FP Cable, Black Bolt, Engineer, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Juggernaut, Vision, Mar-vell, Breach, He-Man, Hercules (Immortal), Raven, Aquaman, Superboy, Animal Man, Darkness, Dr. Doom (w/magic), Wonder Woman, Invincible, Mimic (Exiles), Shaman, Sasquatch, Vulcan, Karate Kid, Ultra Boy, Matrix Supergirl, Dr. Light, Pitt, Union, Prime, Gorilla Grodd, Hector Hammond, Dr. Polaris, Kalibak, Maxima, Mongul, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Jade, Green Lantern (Guy/John), Selene (External), Circe (DC), Jericho, Ronan the Accusor, Super Skrull, Bizarro, Manchester Black, Prof X, Major Force, Jason Rusch, Red Tornado, The Ray, [B]Cir-el 😬

Mid-Tier
Ironman, Colossus, Thing, Starfire, Thing, Abomination, Wonder Man, Namor, Ghost Rider, Rogue, Storm, Maul, Ms. Marvel, Blastaar, Cpt. Britain, Cyborg, Donna Troy, Wondergirl, Gamora, Hawkman/Girl, Invisible Woman, Guardian I, Classic Nova, Deathlok, Speedfreek, She-Hulk, Atom Smasher, War Machine, Human Torch, The Tick, Thunderstrike, Toxin, Lightning Lad, Havok, Mr. Sinister, Omega Red, Beast Boy, Metallo, Box, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Doc Ock, Venom, Carnage, Atlas, Mister Hyde, Box, Attuma, Thunder, Grace Choi, Shift, Power Girl, Aegis, Mary Marvel, Captain Marvel Jr, Bishop, Crystal, Electro, Non-Phoenix Jean grey, Emma frost, Firehawk, bombshell, Black Cannary, Steel, Booster Gold

Enhanced
Wolverine, Killer Croc, Luke cage, Deathstroke, Spider-man, Midnighter, Angel, Sabertooth, Morlun, Beast, Cyclops, Drizzt Do'Urden, Bruenor Battlehammer, Wulfgar, Azrael, Lady Deathstrike, Iron Fist, Beast, Bullseye, Gambit, Taskmaster, Vulture, Mysterio, Vermin, Man-Bat, Orka Humbug, Spiderwoman, Arachne, Arana, Kingpin, Silver Samurai, Ravager, Nightcrawler, Creeper

Street
Batman, Daredevil, Nghtwing, Hawkeye, Moon-knight, Green arrow, Captain America, Swift, Grifter, Turok, Wildcat, Taskmaster, Elektra, Batgirl, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Mystique, Punisher, Joker, Penguin, Riddler, Nomad, Nuke, Ra's Al Ghul, Arsenal/Red Arrow, Black Cat, Catwoman, Echo, Misty Knight, Shang Chi, Coleen Wing, Black Widow, Robin, White Tiger, Deadshot, Lady Shiva, Talia, The Question [/B]

I'm so not good with quotes and stuff, So I'll just say what I have to say down here. I believe Orion and Infinity man both belong in sub sky father. Orion Most def has more fire power than any of the Herald lvlers IMO. I"m still Wondering How Captain Marvel and LOBO are herald lvlers and Wonder WOman is not. Lobo nor Captain Marvel have the Goods to pwn WonderWOman. SHe is as strong as either and has better One Shot weapons. Fernus, The Runner, Genis-Vell,Amazo all belong in sub skyfather. Circe is a sky father. She's the only being able to effectively cancel out the greek God's magic. Take her off the list. And she got a big power boost by Neron some years ago. Maxima has damn near as many powers as silver surfer and she pwns. ANd she is subherald? Ronan and Mongul are Sub Herald but Lobo is herald lvl? WTF. And Apoc is Herald lvl. You don't trash teams of Xmen and ur only sub herald lvl. Let's see Red Tornado or the Ray trash the Xmen, xfactor, xforce all at the same time. NOT.

Well Genis shouldn't be sub Skyfather, for one my friend, He was basically that for one volume. The other two he was Herald.

90's as Legacy=sub herald
Vol. 3-2000-Herald
Vol. 4-2002-SubSkyfather
Thunderbolts-2005-Herald

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And Apoc is Herald lvl. You don't trash teams of Xmen and ur only sub herald lvl. Let's see Red Tornado or the Ray trash the Xmen, xfactor, xforce all at the same time. NOT.

Apoc is not Herald level.

Trickster was trying to push that in our conversation today, I told him it would really iffy, but I ended up saying no

Originally posted by Validus

Adding Breach to the herald list would be key.
Dominus to the subskyfather would make sense to me.
Adding Traitor to the herald list would be key as well.

Lobo shouldn't be above Mongul though.

Originally posted by Redatom65
Trickster was trying to push that in our conversation today, I told him it would really iffy, but I ended up saying no

What about my other points. There is plenty of merit there. How can Lobo be herald lvl but not Ronan, Mongul, and Wonder WOman? And all of the other points. I still Think Apoc is superior to almost everyone you guys have in sub herald. He'd beat the stuffing out of the Ray and Red Tornado, who both are no push overs.