Transcendent:
Amazo, Black Racer, Blackheart, Circe, Death Urge, Despero, The Doctor, Dr. Fate, Dr. Strange (classic), Eclipso, Elders of the Universe (minus Ego), Fernus, The General (Shaggy Man), Gog, High Evolutionary, Ion (current), The Keeper, King Thor, Mangog, Nightmare, Onslaught, Resurrection Man 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Silver Age Kryptonians/Daxamites, Stayne, Sun Eater, Superboy Prime, Superman 1 Million, Takion, Tanaraq, Thanos, Tyrant (powered down), Validus
Top-Tier
High Top-Tier:
Adam Warlock, Baron Zemo (w/ Moonstones), Genis-Vell, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Infinity-Man, Moonstone (w/ both stones), The Silver Surfer, Spartan 3.0, Stardust, Superman, Superman Blue/Red, Thor
Middle Top-Tier:
Alexander Nero, Beta Ray Bill, Binary, Black Adam, Black Bolt, Cable (Full Power), Captain Atom, Captain Marvel (DC), Cyborg Superman, Doomsday, The Eradicator, The Fallen One, Firelord, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), General Zod, Gladiator, Green Lantern (Guy, John), Hyperion, Jack of Hearts, Majestic, Martian Manhunter, Maxima, Mon-El, Morg, Nate Grey, Orion, Quasar, Rachel Summers (Phoenix II), Red Shift, The Sentry, Sersi, Sinestro, Skreet, Supergirl, Supreme, Terrax the Tamer, Void, Waverider, Wildfire, Wonder Woman
Low Top-Tier:
Absorbing Man, Air Walker, Animal Man, Apocalypse, Apollo, Bizarro Superman, Breach, Cassandra Nova, Cir-El, Count Nefaria, Darkness, Darwin, Death Metal, Dr. Invincible, Dr. Light, Dr. Polaris, Drax The Destroyer, Engineer, Etrigan, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, Firestorm, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Gamora (w/Godslayer), Gilgamesh, Gorilla Grodd, Graviton, He-Man, Hector Hammond, Holocaust, Hulk, Iceman, Isis, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Jade, Jericho, Juggernaut (Classic), Kalibak, Lightray, Loki, Lunatik, Magneto, Major Force, Makkari, Manchester Black, Mar-Vell, Matrix Supergirl, Meggan, Mongul, Monica Rambeau (Pulsar), Nova (Frankie Raye), Nova Rich Rider (current), Prime, Professor X, Raven, The Ray, Red Tornado, Ronan the Accuser, Saturn Girl, Selene (External), Shadow King, Shaman, Starhawk, Super Skrull, Superboy, Tempest, Ultra Boy, Union, Vulcan, Winter
Mid-Tier
High Mid-Tier:
Abomination, Aquaman, Ares (Marvel), Atlas, Aurora, Blastaar, Blob, Captain Britain, Captain Marvel Jr, Colossus, Donna Troy, Doom, Emma Frost, Ghost Rider II, Grim Reaper, Guardian I, Hercules (Mortal), The Human Torch, Invisible Woman, Iron-Man, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Juggernaut(Depowered), Kang, Karate Kid, Living Laser, Mandarin, Mary Marvel, Maul, Metallo, Mimic (Exiles), Miss Martian, Mr. Sinister, Namor the Sub-Mariner, Northstar, Osiris, Pitt, Plastic-Man, Power Girl, Sand, Sasquatch, She-Hulk, Starfire, Storm, Temugin, The Thing, Thunderstrike, The Tick, Ulik, Ultimo, Ultron, Vision, War Machine, Wonder Man, Zzaxx
Middle Mid-Tier:
Aegis, Atom Smasher, Attuma, Balder, Beast Boy, Bishop, Blink, Blue Devil, Bombshell, Booster Gold, Box, Carnage, Crystal, Cyborg, Elijah Snow, Ghost Rider, Grace Choi, Havok, Hawkgirl, Hawkman, Jenny Sparks, Kymaera/Namorita, Lightning Lad, M.O.D.O.K., Moonstone, Morlun, Ms. Marvel, Nico Minoru, Omega Red, Radioactive Man, Rogue, Shift, Steel, Terra, Thunder, Toxin, Vance Astro, Wonder Girl
Low Mid-Tier:
3-D Man, Ambrose Chase, Angel, Arachne, Arana, Azrael, Beast, Black Canary, Black Tarantula, Blade, Bruenor Battlehammer, Century, Charcoal, Charlie 27, Cloak, Constrictor, Creeper, Cyclops, Dagger, Death's Head II, Deathlok, Deathstroke the Terminator, Doc Ock, Drizzt Do'Urden, Electro, Falcon, Firehawk, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Gambit, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Iron Fist, Jakita Wagner, Karnak, Kid Devil, Killer Croc, Kingpin, Klaw, Lady Deathstrike, Longshot, Luke Cage, Machine Man, Man-Bat, The Midnighter, Mister Hyde, Molly Hayes, Mysterio, Mystique, Nightcrawler, Nova Richard Rider (classic), Nuke, Orka Humbug, Protocide, Psylocke, Puck, Puma, Rage, Ravager, Rom, Sabretooth, Shang Chi, Silver Samurai, Speedball, Speedfreek, Spider-Man, Spider-Woman, Swift, Tombstone, Triathalon, Vance Astro, Vanguard, Venom, Vermin, Victor Mancha, Vulture, Wizard, Wolverine, Wulfgar
Low-Tier:
High Low-Tier:
Arsenal/Red Arrow, Batgirl, Batman, Black Cat, Black Panther, Blacklash, Bronze Tiger, Bullseye, Captain America, Daredevil, Elektra, Green Arrow, Hawkeye, Joker, Lady Shiva, Red Skull, Richard Dragon, Taskmaster, Bane
Middle Low-Tier:
Baron Zemo, Deadshot, Echo, Grifter, Misty Knight, Moon Knight, Nick Fury, Nightwing, Nomad, Punisher, Ra's Al Ghul, Turok, Wildcat
Low Low-Tier:
Batroc, Black Widow, Catwoman, Colleen Wing, Crossbones, Night Thrasher, Penguin, The Question, Riddler, Robin, Talia, White Tiger
All i'm gonna say, is that the diff between the tiers is being overblown.
On a good day, anyone can take the win. Quit bitching over pebbles.
Naturally, i mean the sub tiers, ala the top tier, which is divided between elite top tier, mid top tier and low top tier. Anybody can win or lose between these subtiers.
Superman should be in the elite top tier, since that's what he represents in DC.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I still don't see how the General is Transcendent level.
Transcendent is basically above the top tier.
Anybody who wrecks a team of top tiers gets that nod.
Thanos, Despero, General, Asteroth, etc.
The guys who walk all over top tiers, barring some exotic bullshits and tricks coming into play.
Originally posted by UniOmni
All i'm gonna say, is that the diff between the tiers is being overblown.On a good day, anyone can take the win. Quit bitching over pebbles.
Naturally, i mean the sub tiers, ala the top tier, which is divided between elite top tier, mid top tier and low top tier. Anybody can win or lose between these subtiers.
Superman should be in the elite top tier, since that's what he represents in DC.
It's not about who would win and who would lose in a fight between characters, Uni. You're missing the point.
It's about legitimate power levels, and how powerful you are determines where you're put.
If that was the case Batsy, Orion would be in the elite top tier. Maxima as well.
It's about the creme of their respective universes.
Its about who can pull out the win at the last minute.
The guy/lady who's got the intangibles working for them.
Thats one of the reasons why Cap Atom isn't an elite top tier. Same for Martian Manhunter. Same for Orion. And Wonderwoman. And Maxima. And Wonderman.
Too many showings where they just don't measure up.
The main thread that links the creme of the crop with the top of the line? They've all got a fodder buddy.
Superman has the most. He's got WonderWoman and MartianManhunter. Two people who're supposed to be on his level, and his equals but when the nitty meets the gritty, they falter. And he rises to meet the challenge.
Thor has Wonderman.
Orion has Lightray, but he's not a mainstay so he doesn't get jobbed much. He's just not around.
Surfer has Firelord.
Hal has Kilowog or John, and Kyle has Guy or the chipmunk.
That's the common thread.
BlackBolt imo has got the intangibles working for him, but he's too obscure to get that nod, so ehh.
Genis Vell should be above the top tier imo, but ehh.
Originally posted by UniOmni
If that was the case Batsy, Orion would be in the elite top tier. Maxima as well.It's about the creme of their respective universes.
Its about who can pull out the win at the last minute.
The guy/lady who's got the intangibles working for them.
Thats one of the reasons why Cap Atom isn't an elite top tier. Same for Martian Manhunter. Same for Orion. And Wonderwoman. And Maxima. And Wonderman.
Too many showings where they just don't measure up.
The main thread that links the creme of the crop with the top of the line? They've all got a fodder buddy.
Superman has the most. He's got WonderWoman and MartianManhunter. Two people who're supposed to be on his level, and his equals but when the nitty meets the gritty, they falter. And he rises to meet the challenge.
Thor has Wonderman.
Orion has Lightray, but he's not a mainstay so he doesn't get jobbed much. He's just not around.
Surfer has Firelord.
Hal has Kilowog or John, and Kyle has Guy or the chipmunk.
That's the common thread.
BlackBolt imo has got the intangibles working for him, but he's too obscure to get that nod, so ehh.
Genis Vell should be above the top tier imo, but ehh.
The difference with Orion is he can simply crank out more power than Supes can. We have to make some lee way with The DC characters becuz Everyone falls short when around Superman. You have to look at what they can do really. Like Infinity Man has been shown to be far Superior To Superman. Orion has more fire power. Ect. And I always Thought Kilowog was nearly even with Hal and Kyle.
Just like WonderWoman and MM are nearly even with Superman?
You don't have to like it, (cuz i dislike it immensely myself) but it is what it is.
The hero with the cannon fodder buddy or tag along, is more likely to be seen as an elite top tier, mostly at the cost of his cannon fodder friends expense.
Sad but true.
And the more firepower thing is fine and dandy, but what matters is how they stack up in a direct comparison.
The General takes the Astroforce in stride.
The General loses an arm to hv, but regenerates it quickly.
Winner = Heat Vision
DD fights Orion and J'onn, and beats both in less than one minute.
DD fights Superman alone, and he gets stomped but looks better than either before him.
Winner = Superman.
Superman gets the cannonfodder buddies. Sorry to tell ya.
Originally posted by UniOmni
Just like WonderWoman and MM are nearly even with Superman?You don't have to like it, (cuz i dislike it immensely myself) but it is what it is.
The hero with the cannon fodder buddy or tag along, is more likely to be seen as an elite top tier, mostly at the cost of his cannon fodder friends expense.
Sad but true.
And the more firepower thing is fine and dandy, but what matters is how they stack up in a direct comparison.The General takes the Astroforce in stride.
The General loses an arm to hv, but regenerates it quickly.Winner = Heat Vision
DD fights Orion and J'onn, and beats both in less than one minute.
DD fights Superman alone, and he gets stomped but looks better than either before him.Winner = Superman.
Superman gets the cannonfodder buddies. Sorry to tell ya.
Well how's this for a comparison. Superman couldn't even make the star conqueror flinch. It was Orion's Astro Force that did the real Dmg.
Star Conqueror>>>>>>>>>>the General.
Originally posted by UniOmni
If that was the case Batsy, Orion would be in the elite top tier. Maxima as well.It's about the creme of their respective universes.
Its about who can pull out the win at the last minute.
The guy/lady who's got the intangibles working for them.
Thats one of the reasons why Cap Atom isn't an elite top tier. Same for Martian Manhunter. Same for Orion. And Wonderwoman. And Maxima. And Wonderman.
Too many showings where they just don't measure up.
The main thread that links the creme of the crop with the top of the line? They've all got a fodder buddy.
Superman has the most. He's got WonderWoman and MartianManhunter. Two people who're supposed to be on his level, and his equals but when the nitty meets the gritty, they falter. And he rises to meet the challenge.
Thor has Wonderman.
Orion has Lightray, but he's not a mainstay so he doesn't get jobbed much. He's just not around.
Surfer has Firelord.
Hal has Kilowog or John, and Kyle has Guy or the chipmunk.
That's the common thread.
BlackBolt imo has got the intangibles working for him, but he's too obscure to get that nod, so ehh.
Genis Vell should be above the top tier imo, but ehh.
I suppose I should have been a bit more perspicuous with my statement.
Feats on how a person uses said power level is also taken into consideration.
Originally posted by Symmetric ChaosI moved Bane too. B comes before C. 313
[b]Moved Bane[/B]
Originally posted by xmarksthespotI decided to follow my suggestions. vin Plus a few more for good measure.
xmarks suggests:
Ravager should be moved down to High Low-Tier.
Psylocke should be moved up to High Mid-Tier.
Cyclops should be moved up to Middle Mid-Tier
Cloak should be moved up to Middle Mid-Tier if not High Mid-Tier.
Flash (Jay Garrick) should be moved up to Middle Mid-Tier.
Electro should be moved up to Middle Mid-Tier and consequently Jenny Sparks should be moved up to High Mid-Tier.
Kingpin should be moved down to High Low-Tier.Additions:
X23 to High Low-Tier or Low Mid-Tier.
Onimar Synn to High Top-Tier or Transcendent.
Hellion and Dust to Middle Mid-Tier.
----------
Transcendent:
Amazo, Black Racer, Blackheart, Circe, Death Urge, Despero, The Doctor, Dr. Fate, Dr. Strange (classic), Eclipso, Elders of the Universe (minus Ego), Fernus, The General (Shaggy Man), Gog, High Evolutionary, Ion (current), The Keeper, King Thor, Mangog, Nightmare, Onimar Synn, Onslaught, Resurrection Man 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Silver Age Kryptonians/Daxamites, Stayne, Sun Eater, Superboy Prime, Superman 1 Million, Takion, Tanaraq, Thanos, Tyrant (powered down), Validus
Top-Tier
High Top-Tier:
Adam Warlock, Baron Zemo (w/ Moonstones), Genis-Vell, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Infinity-Man, Moonstone (w/ both stones), The Silver Surfer, Spartan 3.0, Stardust, Superman, Superman Blue/Red, Thor
Middle Top-Tier:
Alexander Nero, Beta Ray Bill, Binary, Black Adam, Black Bolt, Cable (Full Power), Captain Atom, Captain Marvel (DC), Cyborg Superman, Doomsday, The Eradicator, The Fallen One, Firelord, The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), General Zod, Gladiator, Green Lantern (Guy, John), Hyperion, Jack of Hearts, Majestic, Martian Manhunter, Maxima, Mon-El, Morg, Nate Grey, Orion, Quasar, Rachel Summers (Phoenix II), Red Shift, The Sentry, Sersi, Sinestro, Skreet, Supergirl, Supreme, Terrax the Tamer, Void, Waverider, Wildfire, Wonder Woman
Low Top-Tier:
Absorbing Man, Air Walker, Animal Man, Apocalypse, Apollo, Bizarro Superman, Breach, Cassandra Nova, Cir-El, Count Nefaria, Darkness, Darwin, Death Metal, Dr. Invincible, Dr. Light, Dr. Polaris, Drax The Destroyer, Engineer, Etrigan, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, Firestorm, The Flash II (Barry Allen), Gamora (w/Godslayer), Gilgamesh, Gorilla Grodd, Graviton, He-Man, Hector Hammond, Holocaust, Hulk, Iceman, Isis, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Jade, Jericho, Juggernaut (Classic), Kalibak, Lightray, Loki, Lunatik, Magneto, Major Force, Makkari, Manchester Black, Mar-Vell, Matrix Supergirl, Meggan, Mongul, Monica Rambeau (Pulsar), Nova (Frankie Raye), Nova Rich Rider (current), Prime, Professor X, Raven, The Ray, Red Tornado, Ronan the Accuser, Saturn Girl, Selene (External), Shadow King, Shaman, Starhawk, Super Skrull, Superboy, Tempest, Ultra Boy, Union, Vulcan, Winter
Mid-Tier
High Mid-Tier:
Abomination, Aquaman, Ares (Marvel), Atlas, Aurora, Blastaar, Blob, Captain Britain, Captain Marvel Jr, Colossus, Donna Troy, Doom, Emma Frost, Ghost Rider II, Grim Reaper, Guardian I, Hercules (Mortal), The Human Torch, Invisible Woman, Iron-Man, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Jenny Sparks, Juggernaut(Depowered), Kang, Karate Kid, Living Laser, Mandarin, Mary Marvel, Maul, Metallo, Mimic (Exiles), Miss Martian, Mr. Sinister, Namor the Sub-Mariner, Northstar, Osiris, Pitt, Plastic-Man, Polaris, Power Girl, Psylocke, Sand, Sasquatch, She-Hulk, Starfire, Storm, Temugin, The Thing, Thunderstrike, The Tick, Ulik, Ultimo, Ultron, Vision, War Machine, Wonder Man, Zzaxx
Middle Mid-Tier:
Aegis, Atom Smasher, Attuma, Balder, Beast Boy, Bishop, Blink, Blue Devil, Bombshell, Booster Gold, Box, Carnage, Cloak, Crystal, Cyborg, Cyclops, Dust, Electro Elijah Snow, Ghost Rider, Grace Choi, Havok, Hawkgirl, Hawkman, Hellion, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Kymaera/Namorita, Lightning Lad, M.O.D.O.K., Moonstone, Morlun, Ms. Marvel, Nico Minoru, Omega Red, Quicksilver (classic), Radioactive Man, Rogue, Shift, Steel, Terra, Thunder, Toxin, Vance Astro, Wonder Girl
Low Mid-Tier:
3-D Man, Ambrose Chase, Angel, Arachne, Arana, Azrael, Beast, Black Canary, Black Tarantula, Blade, Bruenor Battlehammer, Century, Charcoal, Charlie 27, Constrictor, Creeper, Dagger, Death's Head II, Deathlok, Deathstroke the Terminator, Doc Ock, Drizzt Do'Urden, Falcon, Firehawk, Gambit, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Iron Fist, Jakita Wagner, Karnak, Kid Devil, Killer Croc, Klaw, Lady Deathstrike, Longshot, Luke Cage, Machine Man, Man-Bat, Mercury, Midnighter, Mister Hyde, Molly Hayes, Mysterio, Mystique, Nightcrawler, Nova Richard Rider (classic), Nuke, Orka Humbug, Protocide, Puck, Puma, Rage, Rom, Sabretooth, Shang Chi, Silver Samurai, Speedball, Speedfreek, Spider-Man, Spider-Woman, Swift, Tombstone, Triathalon, Vance Astro, Vanguard, Venom, Vermin, Victor Mancha, Vulture, Wizard, Wolverine, Wulfgar
Low-Tier:
High Low-Tier:
Arsenal/Red Arrow, Bane, Batgirl, Batman, Black Cat, Black Panther, Blacklash, Bronze Tiger, Bullseye, Captain America, Daredevil, Elektra, Green Arrow, Hawkeye, Joker, Kingpin, Lady Shiva, Ravager, Red Skull, Richard Dragon, Taskmaster, X-23
Middle Low-Tier:
Baron Zemo, Deadshot, Echo, Grifter, Misty Knight, Moon Knight, Nick Fury, Nightwing, Nomad, Punisher, Ra's Al Ghul, Turok, Wildcat
Low Low-Tier:
Batroc, Black Widow, Catwoman, Colleen Wing, Crossbones, Night Thrasher, Penguin, The Question, Riddler, Robin, Talia, White Tiger
If you don't like it... you suck. 313
Queries:
Could someone with more in-depth knowledge of Titans history elaborate on why Jericho is so high?
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Well how's this for a comparison. Superman couldn't even make the star conqueror flinch. It was Orion's Astro Force that did the real Dmg.Star Conqueror>>>>>>>>>>the General.
UniOmni is exactly right in what he's saying.
Originally posted by UniOmni
All i'm gonna say, is that the diff between the tiers is being overblown.On a good day, anyone can take the win. Quit bitching over pebbles.
Originally posted by Validus
I would be willing to bet that Superman has been shown above Orion more than the reverse. That's just my thought.
I wouldn't be surprised. I think Superman regularly does that with all other heroes.
An immense powerset means nothing to Superman; he punches through it. 313
Originally posted by Validus
I would be willing to bet that Superman has been shown as above Orion more than the reverse. That's just my thought. Orion is nowhere near the levels that Walt Simonson wrote him at in the early to mid 1990's. Superman is far above the levels he was written at in the same time period. If a fight was written between the two today, Superman would likely win.UniOmni is exactly right in what he's saying.
Well IMO, Orion has been written to be able to go hand to hand with DS on any given day. Superman has not. He always needs a power up, sun amp, good circumstance. And I"m not even talking about the Strength factor alone. Orion's Astro Force is just Superior to Anything SUperman can dish out. And He also has the mother BOx. Superman wins against anyone in DC who isn't Skyfather lvl. and even then he finds a way to win. Case in point, Dominus. I try not to pay too much attention to stuff when it's compared to him. Or else all of DC would be middle tier and marvel would have it all over for the Top tiers as thier Characters dont' jobber to one sole character.